Panel Wipe Poll

[Fishing]

Desertnate - "Panel Wipe" was used in general terms not in regards to a specific product. Thank you for taking the time to comment.

I am definitely learning some things here. Thank you all.

[Lonnie]

I`m with Desertnate on this. What TYPE of panel wipe are we talking about?
I will commend you Fishing, though, for asking if and when you use a Panel Wipe, AND I assume that by Panel Wipe you mean a prep wipe before applying a Last-Step Product (LSP) of choice.
Perhaps a better poll would be Which Prep/ Panel Wipe do you use?
1) Iso-propyl Alcohol (IPA 70% or 90%)
2) CarPro Eraser
3) Optimum Polymer Technologies Paint Prep
4) GTechniq Panel Wipe
5) 3D Wipe
6) IGL Ecoclean
7) P&S Surface Prep
8) Kleen Strip Paint Prep
9) Akyra Clean Prep Wash
10) Meguiar`s Surface Prep
11) Pre-VOC regulated (AKA old) PP&G DX-330 or DX-440 Grease and Wax Remover
12) I use newer prep polishes that require no panel wipe, like CarPro Essence or Dr.Beasley`s NP150, 90, 45
13) I never use a prep panel wipe prior to LSP application because I do a prep soap-and-water wash after correcting or polishing

Well, you get the idea.... there are a lot of surface preps/ panel wipes to choose from, not to mention newer emerging polish technologies that require no prep (Number 12 in the above list)

I also wonder how many Autopians re-wash their vehicle after correcting or polishing. While that may seem extreme and OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Detailing), it is a VERY effective way to remove both compound and polishing carrier/lubricating oils AND abrasives from a vehicle prior to LSP application.

I would also like to know if any Autopians have horror stories of where an LSP was not compatible with a compound and/or polish after its application because you did not do a prep panel wipe. Mine would be after using M205 polish and then applying Collinite 476S on a dark maroon truck. As Accumulator has lamented many a time, Meg`s Trade-Secret Oils (or TSOs) cause havoc in this case and the Collinite wax became hazed and foggy.
Since then, I have now elected to do a IPA 90% wipe on all vehicles after using M205.

AND my usual Captain Obvious Question, What manufacturer and type of microfiber are you using for your panel wipe?? THAT seems to be a major player preventing swirls in clear coated paint after spending hours polishing them out.
OR is more the wipe product itself??

[Desertnate]

Desertnate - "Panel Wipe" was used in general terms not in regards to a specific product. Thank you for taking the time to comment.

I am definitely learning some things here. Thank you all.

Things are a little more clear now.

I use a panel wipe when applying a coating, not matter whose car it is on. My weapons of choice are either CarPro Eraser or Gyeon Prep. My last couple of bottle have all been Eraser simply because I`m familiar with it and the price doesn`t seem too much worse than anyone else.

I did use a panel wipe for a sealant when I applied Wolfgang`s SiO2 Paint Sealant, but that was only because the instructions called for it and I was doing a durability test. I decided to apply it exactly as directed on the bottle vs. just "winging it". Did it change anything? Not sure.

I would also like to know if any Autopians have horror stories of where an LSP was not compatible with a compound and/or polish after its application because you did not do a prep panel wipe. Mine would be after using M205 polish and then applying Collinite 476S on a dark maroon truck. As Accumulator has lamented many a time, Meg`s Trade-Secret Oils (or TSOs) cause havoc in this case and the Collinite wax became hazed and foggy.

I`ve never experienced any incompatibility issues between sealants and a polish (or even a couple glazes), though my sealant repertoire is probably much smaller than most here. Interesting you had issues with 476 and Meguiars. For many years I applied 845 over Meguiars Ultimate Polish/Compound with no ill effects. The only hazing I saw from 845 was spots where I applied it too heavy and it would "sweat" in high heat/temperatures. Those spots were easily eliminated with a wash or a swipe with a MF towel and a QD.

[Fishing]

Lonnie - I like this idea “re-wash their vehicle after correcting or polishing”. I will give this a try for sure. “horror stories of where an LSP was not compatible with a compound and/or polish” I never gave that a thought,,,something to think about when buying new products.


Desertnate- Thank you for the information and a couple examples of panel wipes that I can look into.

[dgage]

There are many times I also wash the car after polishing to clean off any dust so panel wipe isn`t always needed but I am washing off the polishing oils with a coating prep wash such as McKees.

Also, CarPro changed their stance on Essence not needing a prep wipe before a coating. My understanding via Guz is that CarPro suggests a panel wipe after using Essence. So even some synergistic prep polishes may need a panel wipe.

[Vegas1]

I`ve always used a panel wipe product since I started using coatings a few years ago. Blackfire Paint Prep and Wolfgang Perfekt Finish Paint Prep are two I`ve tried with excellent results.

[Lonnie]

Desertnate:
The Collinite wax "sweating" issue when too much is applied in a humid ambient environment sounds more likely and plausible than an incompatibility issue between Meg`s M205 polishing TSOs (Trade-Secret Oils) and Collinite 476S wax. I, too, am a wax-waster and tend to over-wax.
Yes, it did require some "elbow grease" to remove the hazing/fogging on the truck mentioned in the above post. Dried excessive Collinite wax is VERY difficult to remove manually. Never thought of using a QD to aid in that department.

Still waiting on responses/suggestions for what exact make and type of microfiber(s) to use with Prep Wipes.
[Somehow ,Captain Obvious, requests for EXACT make and type of microfiber(s) to use for any detailing task seems to be a particular "fetish" (I `d like to think of it as a "concerned interest") of yours.]
Reference thread: Favorite Microfiber for Specific Detailing Task List (Autopian Suggestions)

[William_Wallace]

I stopped buying separate panel wipe I’ve been using Megs concentrated glass cleaner and Feynlab rinseless out of sprayer. I soak car down with fenylab rinseless wipe up and spay Megs glass cleaner during wipe up only on coating. If it’s a sealant I only do fenylab rinseless.

the strongest panel wipe I have used from a detailing company is gtech but expensive.

[Accumulator]

Just to muddy the waters a little (heh heh, kinda just kidding...), these days I generally use a Finishing Polish, or an actual AIO, that leaves [stuff] behind. NO, I don`t strip that off. The products I use are compatible with my LSPs and *do not, in any way* compromise their durability or anything else.

I always strip the panel when doing correction, just to make sure it *really* looks the way I want it to. But by the time it appears perfect enough for the Finishing, that concern isn`t there.

[roscopervis]

I have used a form of panel wipe if the situation has called for it - Applying a coating, applying a durable sealant or wax etc. However, I don`t use a panel wipe if I`m using an AIO and I`m applying something over that, it would totally defeat the point!

More recently, I won`t use a panel wipe if using a primer polish prior to coating, again because the point of the primer polish is to work with the coating and to avoid the need to panel wipe.

So it isn`t called for in every circumstance. I`m sure that lots of solvent heavy waxes like Collinite will quite easily cope with and remove any light polishing oils by themselves.

IPA - the actual alcohol, not the wrongly used catch all term as the `wipe down` is another thing that needs to be addressed. It isn`t very good by itself as a panel wipe. Firstly, it shouldn`t be used at dilutions above 20% as it causes ructions with the paint/clearcoat. It will swell it, reveal previously hidden scratches as a result of these swells and only works on some oils. If you`re using it at 20% dilution, then you`ll need other products to boost it as it isn`t very effective at all at this level, so what you gonna use?

All panel wipes that are alcohol based have other surfactants and degreasers in to make them effective, they are never just IPA. GTechniq`s is very strong, but probably too strong really, as it causes the paint swelling and strong IPA issues mentioned above. I`ve learnt this over the years, particularly when strong IPA panel wiping my Basalt Black Cayman with stupidly soft paint and was revealing straight line scratches that were definitely not there before the wipe, and it wasn`t hidden by the oils. Leave it a while and they`d go again.

What do I do now? Similar to William Wallace (and Atbalfour) I use Feynlab Pure Rinseless on my microfibre towel to remove the polish. I`m sure this leaves the surface pretty dang naked, plus is amazing to help removal of products from super soft paints. I used to use Griots Brilliant Finish (or any other normal ONR type rinseless wash) but Feynlab Pure Rinseless is something else. From there, you can use any panel wipe you want, though you don`t have to go aggressive. Gyeon Prep or CarPro Eraser aren`t particularly strong in the same way GTechniq`s is so won`t give you the paint issues that does, plus as there is virtually nothing left to remove, it will be more than adequate.

So, that`s what I do.

[Lonnie]

roscopervis:
I have never heard that iso-propyl alcohol (IPA) causes "paint swelling". Not exactly sure what that is and if it caused permanent damage AND does that only affect certain manufacturer`s and types paints (clear-coats actually). Hey, I am here to learn.
I`ve used 90% IPA as a panel wipe for many years when I learned about it in this forum.

I think "informed" detailers have migrated to true panel wipe products instead of IPA because of the better solvents and lubricants in them for better cleaning with less change of scratching, but that would be my guess.

Also learned that your Cayman`s Basalt Black paint/clear-coat is "stupidly soft". Never knew that.
SOMEDAY someone here in this forum is going to gather/organize/comprise the information about specific manufacturers vehicle`s colors that are known to be soft and then publish that list. (Hey, it is on my Captain Obvious Autopia Forum Christmas wish-list. Any "Santas" out there??!)
I do know that BMW Jet Black is supposedly soft , as is Rolls-Royce Black.

[roscopervis]

Most times you will not hear about it as paint swelling, it will be more like a question from somebody asking “Why is my buffing towel leaving marring after the panel wipe?” It isn’t the buffing towel, it’s the paint swelling and it’s usually only noticeable on darker colours.

There’s lots of reading about why almost pure IPA is not recommended. I would hope that people have changed because other products are more effective and safer at the same time. The Feynlab Pure Rinseless method is amazing.

Lots of cars are a surprise, it was to me when I first polished it. Give me hard paint to machine any day, though some paint like some off the Mercedes and Audi’s is crazy hard but still marrs easily. Bizarre.

The truth with every car though is inspection and test spot. Different colours will have a different hardness across the same vehicle range I’ve found, and then when there is a different year too, I don’t think there are as many generalisations as many beginners think.

[Bill D]

I can confirm that Audi and Mercedes paint can be hard yet mar easily. It drives me nuts especially since the two I work on are black. Extreme washing measures are a must

[Accumulator]

I would also like to know if any Autopians have horror stories of where an LSP was not compatible with a compound and/or polish after its application because you did not do a prep panel wipe.

Kinda along those lines: When I had a (now-MIA) fellow Autopian do a full Detail on a SUV, he failed to strip the oils from Menzerna`s 106FF. Looked fine, but after a while a gazillion holograms "came back" even though the 476S over top of `em was still 100%/

Since then, I have now elected to do a IPA 90% wipe on all vehicles after using M205.

Eh, at least the IPA works for you on that...

AND my usual Captain Obvious Question, What manufacturer and type of microfiber are you using for your panel wipe?? THAT seems to be a major player preventing swirls in clear coated paint after spending hours polishing them out.
OR is more the wipe product itself??

Huh, never really thought about that...never had any problems but maybe that`s because I get virtually everything off with the "regular buffing" so I`m just stripping carrier agents/oils/etc. and since all my MFs are paint-safe it`s just never bitten me unless a speck of dirt/etc. somehow got on there and escaped my notice.

[Desertnate]

Huh, never really thought about that...never had any problems but maybe that`s because I get virtually everything off with the "regular buffing" so I`m just stripping carrier agents/oils/etc. and since all my MFs are paint-safe it`s just never bitten me unless a speck of dirt/etc. somehow got on there and escaped my notice.

This has been my experience too. I`ve used the original Blackfire Coating Prep, Gyeon Prep, and CarPro Eraser. All were slightly different in the way they performed, but all accomplished the same task.