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  1. #1

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    Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    Hi guys,

    Recently posted this on another forum, however I believe they are not keen on me discussing Kamikaze, so thought I would post here:


    I am a hobbiest and have ceramic coated 3 of my own cars in the past. All with GTechniq CSL+EXOv4. I have been disappointed with the longevity and performance (water beading, self cleaning, etc.) on lower vertical panels after a short time.

    Horizontal and above the mid-door still has great water beading and performance but nothing below. I suspect it`s related to the harsh winter elements of Atlantic Canadian winters. Lots of road salt and crap on the road gets blasted onto the paint.

    I enjoy a ceramic coated car for ease of cleaning and ease of drying with a Master Blaster. A freshly EXOv4`d vehicle takes only minutes to dry with the Master Blaster...

    I just bought a new car am debating what to coat it with, hopefully something that lasts longer on lower panels than CSL+EXOv4 did.

    Thoughts? I am considering Kamikaze ISM 2.0 as they are marketed as being designed for enhanced chemical resistance to meet Nordic climate demands.

    I am looking for something easy to clean, that resists water spotting (CSL was not great for this) and maintains water beading through salt. Not as worried about how it looks on the paint.

    Car is an Alpine White (not tricoat) 2021 BMW X6 M50i. I am also interested in coating the wheels as they are bi-color (black painted + polished aluminum). KEeping the black portion clean is going to require work. Recommendation for that?

    I will be picking up some Sonax PerfectFinish and a yellow Rupes pad for prep correction. Came swirled a bit from dealer/factory.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    Quote Originally Posted by nvestr View Post
    Hi guys,

    Recently posted this on another forum, however I believe they are not keen on me discussing Kamikaze, so thought I would post here:


    I am a hobbiest and have ceramic coated 3 of my own cars in the past. All with GTechniq CSL+EXOv4. I have been disappointed with the longevity and performance (water beading, self cleaning, etc.) on lower vertical panels after a short time.

    Horizontal and above the mid-door still has great water beading and performance but nothing below. I suspect it`s related to the harsh winter elements of Atlantic Canadian winters. Lots of road salt and crap on the road gets blasted onto the paint.

    I enjoy a ceramic coated car for ease of cleaning and ease of drying with a Master Blaster. A freshly EXOv4`d vehicle takes only minutes to dry with the Master Blaster...

    I just bought a new car am debating what to coat it with, hopefully something that lasts longer on lower panels than CSL+EXOv4 did.

    Thoughts? I am considering Kamikaze ISM 2.0 as they are marketed as being designed for enhanced chemical resistance to meet Nordic climate demands.

    I am looking for something easy to clean, that resists water spotting (CSL was not great for this) and maintains water beading through salt. Not as worried about how it looks on the paint.

    Car is an Alpine White (not tricoat) 2021 BMW X6 M50i. I am also interested in coating the wheels as they are bi-color (black painted + polished aluminum). KEeping the black portion clean is going to require work. Recommendation for that?

    I will be picking up some Sonax PerfectFinish and a yellow Rupes pad for prep correction. Came swirled a bit from dealer/factory.

    Thanks!
    We had 3 cars with considerably different usage patterns; all protected with same set of products (Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, ISM 1.0 x 1) – (October 2016 thru May 2019)

    Car 1 would have likely got to 5 years before needing to be completely redone. (Applied October 2016, re-done June 2019 for different coating curiosity, original coating at 85% ‘as applied’ when re-done)

    Car 2 will likely never need to be redone. (Sold January 2019, coating at 90% as applied in 08/2017)

    Car 3 got to nearly 2 years before needing to be redone. (applied September 2017, re-done in May 2019 @42k miles; still OK on hood, roof and trunk lid but toast on sides)

    Car 1 is about 5500 miles a year, no freeway, sat outside 24/7, 365 during that period but only really driven daily November thru April, short trips, no freeway.

    Car 2 was daily driver in nice weather, April thru November, usually no-rain days only, always garaged, 5500 miles a year, rarely freeway.

    Car 3 is year round daily driver, generally was always garaged during 2/3 of that period, 25k miles a year, 95% freeway.

    All are in NE Ohio which really goes heavy and early with road treatments in Winter: https://budgetplan1.files.wordpress....treatments.pdf

    I have Miyabi x 2 + ISM 2.0 x 1 on my daily driver now (except for hood, roof and trunk lid) but only about a year in with that combo. Made it through Winter very nicely but still too soon to tell if the ISM 2.0 will do better than ISM 1.0 (on top of Miyabi). ISM 2.0 is a bit of a PITA to apply as well…apply in small section, remove IMMEDIATELY. A bit more of a candy-gloss than ISM 1.0, I kinda dig it but until another year passes, I’m not willing to say it’s ‘better’ than ISM 1.0.

    Also have ISM 2.0 as a single layer on a fleet van at work, more info here (detail): https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/gl...oatings/#ISM20

    Edit: FWIW Our daily drivers don`t get washed much during the November - April months. Maybe an occasional nice day hits and they got bucket washed but aside from that, a monthly trip through the local touchless soap/rinse tunnel is about as good as it gets for me. Hit `em in the Spring with a heavy foam, Gyeon Iron, Gyeon Tar and the coatings came back (until they didn`t). Car #1 cleaned up nicely each Spring in its 3rd Spring with a simple spraydown with Polish Angel Ultrared.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    I think it’s Exo v4 that has failed and if you were to do a proper decon wash, and just leave CSL work by itself, it would work better in the long run. This is the biggest failing of GTechniq right now.

    I defer to BudgetPlan1 and his Kamikaze knowledge though, well coatings in general. I’m sure he would advise what was the best option.
    Mae gan un o fy nghar ddau silindr a gyriant pedair olwyn. Mae gan y llall yr injan yn y canol. Dwi ddim yn hoffi rheolaidd.
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  4. #4

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    Re: Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    Cquartz UK 3.0 was made for Nordic conditions. Maintain with Polish Angel Viking Spritz.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  5. #5

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    Re: Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    We had 3 cars with considerably different usage patterns; all protected with same set of products (Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, ISM 1.0 x 1) – (October 2016 thru May 2019)

    Car 1 would have likely got to 5 years before needing to be completely redone. (Applied October 2016, re-done June 2019 for different coating curiosity, original coating at 85% ‘as applied’ when re-done)

    Car 2 will likely never need to be redone. (Sold January 2019, coating at 90% as applied in 08/2017)

    Car 3 got to nearly 2 years before needing to be redone. (applied September 2017, re-done in May 2019 @42k miles; still OK on hood, roof and trunk lid but toast on sides)

    Car 1 is about 5500 miles a year, no freeway, sat outside 24/7, 365 during that period but only really driven daily November thru April, short trips, no freeway.

    Car 2 was daily driver in nice weather, April thru November, usually no-rain days only, always garaged, 5500 miles a year, rarely freeway.

    Car 3 is year round daily driver, generally was always garaged during 2/3 of that period, 25k miles a year, 95% freeway.

    All are in NE Ohio which really goes heavy and early with road treatments in Winter: https://budgetplan1.files.wordpress....treatments.pdf

    I have Miyabi x 2 + ISM 2.0 x 1 on my daily driver now (except for hood, roof and trunk lid) but only about a year in with that combo. Made it through Winter very nicely but still too soon to tell if the ISM 2.0 will do better than ISM 1.0 (on top of Miyabi). ISM 2.0 is a bit of a PITA to apply as well…apply in small section, remove IMMEDIATELY. A bit more of a candy-gloss than ISM 1.0, I kinda dig it but until another year passes, I’m not willing to say it’s ‘better’ than ISM 1.0.

    Also have ISM 2.0 as a single layer on a fleet van at work, more info here (detail): https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/gl...oatings/#ISM20

    Edit: FWIW Our daily drivers don`t get washed much during the November - April months. Maybe an occasional nice day hits and they got bucket washed but aside from that, a monthly trip through the local touchless soap/rinse tunnel is about as good as it gets for me. Hit `em in the Spring with a heavy foam, Gyeon Iron, Gyeon Tar and the coatings came back (until they didn`t). Car #1 cleaned up nicely each Spring in its 3rd Spring with a simple spraydown with Polish Angel Ultrared.
    Thank you - sorry for time it took to get back to you.

    can you explain why 2x Miyabi with ISM 2.0 on top? From my understanding, Miyabi is not as durable as ISM, so why is it there at all? Shouldn`t the most durable coating be on the bottom? I guess that is how GTechniq does it (CSL supposed to be 5 years, EXOv4 2 years)...

    I was thinking ISM 2.0 standalone - why do people also use Miyabi? Just a thicker coating? Is it for appearance?

    How good is water performance on ISM 2.0 as standalone? I know CSL standalone was pretty uninspiring with regards to water properties. Amazing with EXOv4 though, until it degraded on lower panels for me.

  6. #6
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    Quote Originally Posted by nvestr View Post
    Thank you - sorry for time it took to get back to you.
    No worries!

    Quote Originally Posted by nvestr View Post
    can you explain why 2x Miyabi with ISM 2.0 on top? From my understanding, Miyabi is not as durable as ISM, so why is it there at all? Shouldn`t the most durable coating be on the bottom? I guess that is how GTechniq does it (CSL supposed to be 5 years, EXOv4 2 years)...

    I was thinking ISM 2.0 standalone - why do people also use Miyabi? Just a thicker coating? Is it for appearance?
    As far as the layering, really just following the vendor recommendation for ISM 1.0, figure their testing has proven the "2 layers of Miyabi = 24 months, 2 layers of Miyabi + ISM 1.0 = 24-36 months". Any further explanation would require contacting them; I went over it with them at one point long ago but have forgotten the explicit reasoning. Even though 1 +1 doesn`t equal 2 (or 2 + 1 doesn`t equal 3) sometimes I just follow directions. Heck, I`m not even sure they recommend Miyabi as a base w/ ISM 2.0 but old habits with a label that says ISM die hard

    Quote Originally Posted by nvestr View Post
    How good is water performance on ISM 2.0 as standalone? I know CSL standalone was pretty uninspiring with regards to water properties. Amazing with EXOv4 though, until it degraded on lower panels for me.
    CSL was pretty uninspiring on it`s own w regards to water behavior but even worse w/ C2V3 on top. EXOV4 I found to be kinda weak, CarPros Gliss was much better as far a `hydrophobic topcoat` goes. I was never overly impressed with EXOV4 given the reputation of the previous versions, standalone ISM 2.0 & ISM 1.0 were better in my world. A very nice combo for me was CSL topped w/ Gyeon CanCoat every 6 months; CSL is pretty tough and the CanCoat added a nice candy gloss and some excellent water behavior.

    Regardless of how the ISM 2.0 does, when it`s time to re-do my daily drivers I`ll be using Miyabi x 2 and ISM 1.0 x 1; with the neglect they sometimes get, a month or so between washes, less in Winter, it`s been my favorite combo for daily drivers. If ISM 2.0 as a single layer does well, I`ll save it for work vehicles just to save time even though it`s a PITA to use if you haven`t used a bunch of quick-flash coatings. After doing 90% of my car by following the directions explicitly, I thought I was smarter than I was and started expanding the 2x2 sections when I got to the hood...big mistake, got all gooned up.

    Personally I`m a bit `meh` on this whole `Made for Northern Climate...` stuff, be it Kamikaze, CarpPro CQ UK or Polish Angel Viking. A coating is tough or it isn`t regardless of the climate thing.; does a `northern` coating keep a chemical `winter coat` on all the time? Is a non-northern climate coating walking around in flip-flops and sunglasses all of the time? Something is either chemical resistant or not regardless of climate
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  7. #7
    Swanicyouth's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    IME nothing will last salted roads + snow on lower panels. Most coatings will not last one month there. Salt is corrosive, it eats through steel. When people do longevity tests of these products, they always look at the hood, roof, or trunk, which are areas not constantly bathed in brine during NE winters. The solution is to use something easy to apply & apply it often - like TW Shine and Seal.
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  8. #8

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    Re: Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    Seal and shine couldnít handle a high ph soap when I used it....One wash. Youíd have to apply that stuff after everydrive...


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  9. #9
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    Re: Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coatings=crack View Post
    Seal and shine couldnít handle a high ph soap when I used it....One wash. Youíd have to apply that stuff after everydrive...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I could be wrong, but Iím going to say almost every soap sold makes a pH neutral wash solution when itís diluted > 1:100. The stuff seems as good as anything else out there to me & itís cheap & easy to apply every wash.

    Iím still going to say there is not one coating that lasts even a week of daily driving on certain lower panels in NE winter brine. I havenít tried every coating, but have tried enough multiple times with the same result.
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  10. #10

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    Re: Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swanicyouth View Post
    I could be wrong, but Iím going to say almost every soap sold makes a pH neutral wash solution when itís diluted > 1:100. The stuff seems as good as anything else out there to me & itís cheap & easy to apply every wash.

    Iím still going to say there is not one coating that lasts even a week of daily driving on certain lower panels in NE winter brine. I havenít tried every coating, but have tried enough multiple times with the same result.
    I havenít experience those conditions and as for SNS iíve seen alot better but in my weather/conditions. Gave the stuff away.... it was garbage for me

    I can tell you using Mckeeís coating prep soap that it definitely degrades LSPís I didnít test PH so I cant speak on that but it crushed SNS and definitely hurt the 3-1.


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  11. #11

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    Re: Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    SnS is garbage. The fact it is moderately chemical resistant is for me a downside as it is difficult to remove from the paint. Incredibly unforgiving application, intoxicating smell, does nout visually or hydrophobically. I`ve found it to have next to no real world durability either, it can be washed over and over but doesn`t last a month in winter conditions here.

    Somehow it`s got a cult following amongst people with exceptionally low standards, but great if it works for you because it`s damn cheap to buy.
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  12. #12
    William_Wallace's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic for northern climates + salt roads... Should I try Kamikaze?

    The winters are tough not real noticeable difference here it beat the crap out of all the coatings

 

 

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