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  1. #16
    acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    ^^ One addition to my above post that I didn’t want to get lost in the above: CanCoat beading was noticeably degraded prior to the toppings. The beading and video above are better behavior than CanCoat alone was after 3 months. It was still good but not ‘like new’. This observation doesn’t go against the shed/adherence argument as the SiO2 adhering from the toppers is obviously improving the behavior.

    I had the similar experience topping Cosmic with High Gloss Spray last year. Cosmic was great but the beading/sheeting stepped upon a level once High Gloss was applied. I was able watch that comparison for quite some time since my hood was half Cosmic and half Cosmic+HG. After a few months though I think the hood even’d out as High Gloss wore away.

  2. #17

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    Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    Quote Originally Posted by acuRAS82 View Post
    Well the paint certainly doesn’t look the same as CanCoat alone. The 10 Minute Paint Sealant would also have to have shed for this to be CanCoat. High Gloss Paste and Spray are (in some measurement) 80% TiO2 and 10% SiO2. So if we’re talking about other ingredients shedding, there’s not much else there to account for.

    There’s no doubt using these toppers on coatings or coating lites allows them to benefit from being bonded to an already smooth, nano-surface, but I dont think things just shed off. If I put Megs Gold Class Carnauba wax on the car, that area will show changed beading for weeks. Same if I put a spray sealant on. If these don’t shed off then I don’t see why ingredients in toppers would.
    Usually those ratings of 80/20 sio/tio are after solvents/carriers have been wiped/evaporated. Sio2 and tio2 are solids and if fresh product was 90% solids it would be mud/paste.

    Those are percentages of amounts left behind. And every product I have used on my bare hood and on my coated parts of car, The hydrophobics, contact angle’sand self cleaning are dramatically superior

    From info i gathered (which could be complete) sio2/tio2 solids in toppers adheres to ceramic coating adding to the pile. Rest is just kind of carrier to get it there.

    When you put it on uncoated parts of car you have less of a “pile”. So any sio2 product will perform better on coating.

    I’ve seen this with every sio2 product I have used on coated vs non coated surface.

    Note: I have not tried any Sio2 paste wax products.


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  3. #18
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    Re: Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Coatings=crack View Post
    Usually those ratings of 80/20 sio/tio are after solvents/carriers have been wiped/evaporated. Sio2 and tio2 are solids and if fresh product was 90% solids it would be mud/paste.

    Those are percentages of amounts left behind. And every product I have used on my bare hood and on my coated parts of car, The hydrophobics, contact angle’sand self cleaning are dramatically superior

    From info i gathered (which could be complete) sio2/tio2 solids in toppers adheres to ceramic coating adding to the pile. Rest is just kind of carrier to get it there.

    When you put it on uncoated parts of car you have less of a “pile”. So any sio2 product will perform better on coating.

    I’ve seen this with every sio2 product I have used on coated vs non coated surface.

    Note: I have not tried any Sio2 paste wax products.


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    Understood, as far as percentages being of solids and not including carriers.

    At what point do you separate performance credit away from your base coat(ing) then? I’m giving credit to my topper for improving looks, beading and sheeting.

    Anyways, back to the thread, I’m considering adding second coats to the waxes, but that would change the dynamics of the test... so maybe it’s another test for another day. I wish I had 10 vehicles... hmmmmmm...

  4. #19

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    Re: Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    Quote Originally Posted by acuRAS82 View Post
    Understood, as far as percentages being of solids and not including carriers.

    At what point do you separate performance credit away from your base coat(ing) then? I’m giving credit to my topper for improving looks, beading and sheeting.

    Anyways, back to the thread, I’m considering adding second coats to the waxes, but that would change the dynamics of the test... so maybe it’s another test for another day. I wish I had 10 vehicles... hmmmmmm...
    Did you polish trunk lid before applying? Could be old LSp clogging?

    After having coating i dont look as a topper as a layer on top of coating but ingredients that combine with the coating. Only way to explain superior performance of same product on top of coating and on bare paint. Anyways not debating just theories on why the performance difference.


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  5. #20
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    Re: Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Coatings=crack View Post
    Did you polish trunk lid before applying? Could be old LSp clogging?

    After having coating i dont look as a topper as a layer on top of coating but ingredients that combine with the coating. Only way to explain superior performance of same product on top of coating and on bare paint. Anyways not debating just theories on why the performance difference.


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    For the ceramic wax test, everything was clayed a few weeks before and polished the day before. The only malfunctions I can think of could be that my WG Paint Prep Spray is not working well for me removing polishing oils, or that the temperature in my garage was not warm enough for some to bond well. I think the temp was around 60 or high 50’s when these were applied. But as for the HG Paste I applied that to the Audi in similar temperature and it’s doing fine there as a topper.

    Edit: By the way, sorry if I was turning anything about toppers on bases into a debate. I wasn’t sure what was meant in the original post you made on the topic but I’m pretty much on board with what you’re saying about piling on and/or toppers mixing into the base to some degree. Regarding this test of mine, I still expected ceramic waxes to all work amazing as standalone but either conditions weren’t optimal, or maybe some do really intend to have 2nd coats applied, or maybe some such as HG Paste are really optimal only as toppers... or any combination of the 3 I just mentioned.

    I’m still considering adding another coat of HG on top of HG just to see what happens. Maybe also a second coat on one of the Synergy applications (directions mention 2), on the 5th Element (directions prefer 2) and on one of the “NYF” applications as well.
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  6. #21
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    Re: Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    Update 4/8 ~3 weeks:
    Although the beads never started out as nice as I wanted, whether due to cold application or allowing water, WW or whatever, they have continued to behave similarly through constantly being outside through thick and thin. Heavy T-storms came through last night and I snapped a few pics after a sheeting drive this morning. Average sheeting speed is about 45mph which is faster than I would like but I don’t recall the good ‘normal’ on this car.








    The hood and trunk do self-clean very well and look superb when dry. Here’s the large moon last night.

  7. #22
    Sizzle Chest's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    Still good characteristics. Nice shots, that moon shot was cool!
    Scott Harle
    www.autodermatology.com
    Autodermatology
    Serving Naples and SW Florida
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    Thanks acuRAS82 thanked for this post

  8. #23
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    Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle Chest View Post
    Still good characteristics. Nice shots, that moon shot was cool!
    Thanks Scott. I agree that behavior looks good still after a ride or a hose flush. The beads just look a little funky across the board after an initial rain. I should have taken a pic before going on my drive. I’ll have more chances though. The ‘enjoyability’ factor of these waxes are so high, and as mentioned previously, uniform wipe off is so guaranteed compared to most sprays.

    Heres one more I took moments ago when the sun snuck out... no cleaning prior.
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  9. #24
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    Re: Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    Update and Ending: 4/24

    Sadly, I polished off the vertical panels today to start a different test. I didn’t even take any recent pictures, but I had tried Numerous coating maintenance washes and Feynlab Pure Rinseless. The waxes basically remained the way they were. I’m not sure if the Acura’s soft paint was an issue, or if it was too cold in my garage during application and cure time, but the results started blah and remained that way, and I yearned to try something new. I hope to do another ceramic wax test in the future under better weather conditions and maybe on different paint. I’m even keeping track of a few panels with done ceramic waxes on my German cars and the results are much better... this was just to prove to myself that my wax pots hadn’t gotten too old.

    Anyways, during my last wash a few days ago, most sections were sheeting quite slow. Like, 30+ seconds to sheet ‘shower’ setting off (I don’t have access to the plain hose for sheeting). But if you turned around for 1 minute and looked back, the entire hood would be 95% dry. So still protection there, just low performance.
    The best sheeting (by far) went to Angelwax Fifth Element (Titanium).
    The other two that looked decent were Angelwax SEMA 2019 (graphene) and Dodo Nano.
    Perhaps these 3 like the Acura paint the most or did best during colder application/cure time. Who knows. Dodo Nano in the past has been on par with Synergy for me, but Synergy looked fairly poor during this test period. On my X5, I have the two side by side on the roof and Synergy is doing great on that paint.

    Thanks for following and sorry this was a bit of a disappointment, but don’t let it deter thoughts about using ceramic waxes. This is my first less-than-stellar experience with them. Hopefully more to come later in 2020 or 2021...
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  10. #25
    Mary B's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    Quote Originally Posted by acuRAS82 View Post
    Update and Ending: 4/24

    Sadly, I polished off the vertical panels today to start a different test. I didn’t even take any recent pictures, but I had tried Numerous coating maintenance washes and Feynlab Pure Rinseless. The waxes basically remained the way they were. I’m not sure if the Acura’s soft paint was an issue, or if it was too cold in my garage during application and cure time, but the results started blah and remained that way, and I yearned to try something new. I hope to do another ceramic wax test in the future under better weather conditions and maybe on different paint. I’m even keeping track of a few panels with done ceramic waxes on my German cars and the results are much better... this was just to prove to myself that my wax pots hadn’t gotten too old.

    Anyways, during my last wash a few days ago, most sections were sheeting quite slow. Like, 30+ seconds to sheet ‘shower’ setting off (I don’t have access to the plain hose for sheeting). But if you turned around for 1 minute and looked back, the entire hood would be 95% dry. So still protection there, just low performance.
    The best sheeting (by far) went to Angelwax Fifth Element (Titanium).
    The other two that looked decent were Angelwax SEMA 2019 (graphene) and Dodo Nano.
    Perhaps these 3 like the Acura paint the most or did best during colder application/cure time. Who knows. Dodo Nano in the past has been on par with Synergy for me, but Synergy looked fairly poor during this test period. On my X5, I have the two side by side on the roof and Synergy is doing great on that paint.

    Thanks for following and sorry this was a bit of a disappointment, but don’t let it deter thoughts about using ceramic waxes. This is my first less-than-stellar experience with them. Hopefully more to come later in 2020 or 2021...


    Thanks alot, this was great ! I always wondered about Synergy.
    (don`t know if this helps, but I use WG paint prep. and it does leave a film. So I`ve started to use it only before polishing and Gyeon prep. for my last wipe down before LSP)

    Thanx again.

  11. #26
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    Re: Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary B View Post
    Thanks alot, this was great ! I always wondered about Synergy.
    (don`t know if this helps, but I use WG paint prep. and it does leave a film. So I`ve started to use it only before polishing and Gyeon prep. for my last wipe down before LSP)

    Thanx again.
    Thank you! This is the first I’ve ever heard Perfekt Prep called out. I’ve had numerous issues applying after it but I have a half-gallon left and it’s a pricey prep spray so I have trouble justifying buying something new. This has beeen my only experience with prep spray other than N-914 diluted 1:8 (which also may leave film from what I read).

    When I know I need a clean surface for sure, I reach for prep polishes as the only other option in my arsenal. I’ve had no questionable results with those that I can recall. A bit extra work but at least I can trust results.

    I appreciate your feedback and since I’m trying to determine possible causes for this inconsistent test, I likely won’t be using Perfekt Prep for future tests. No need to have additional question marks.

  12. #27
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    Re: Ceramic Paste Wax Showdown / Test

    One thing to note for all: DP “NYF” SiO2 Wax on the vertical panels is doing fine. This was put on Essence and didn’t have the same issues as the bare horizontal panel test.

 

 
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