Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 52
  1. #31
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,261
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by bad penny View Post
    Bottom line. You`ll be lucky to get 2 years out of a coating. Imo they offer no additional protection to your paint either.
    You may wanna try better coatings then...
    Likes RaskyR1, The Guz, Coatings=crack, Stokdgs liked this post

  2. #32
    Dan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    NoVA
    Posts
    7,109
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Even if they only last a year, applying a decent coating is less work than waxing with FK1000P.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    84,883
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Even if they only last a year, applying a decent coating is less work than waxing with FK1000P.
    Huh...that`s a real YMMV as I find the FK *infinitely* easier..like, no comparison at all. Sure not arguing, just pointing out that different people are gonna have different experiences with this one.
    Likes Ron Ketcham, Stokdgs liked this post

  4. #34

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Brookfield Ill.
    Posts
    577
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Hey , I like to wax cars. It is the only thing that I get a lot of satifaction out of .Modern spray waxes are great , use once a month and you will have a very sharp car forever. Clay once a year , wash once a week and polish when nessesary. My prime concern is how the car looks. Spray wax is a 10 minute job

  5. #35

    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    76
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    You may wanna try better coatings then...

    I read part of your thread on your experience with coatings. I only made it about halfway through before my eyes went crossways. When I quit reading it appeared you had gotten more into toppings then coatings. Did you finally find something that performs (beads) like it did on day 1 (for more then 2 years) without toppings?

    I understand claying when the surface becomes contaminated. That definitely helps some.
    Likes BudgetPlan1 liked this post

  6. #36
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,261
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by bad penny View Post
    I read part of your thread on your experience with coatings. I only made it about halfway through before my eyes went crossways. When I quit reading it appeared you had gotten more into toppings then coatings. Did you finally find something that performs (beads) like it did on day 1 (for more then 2 years) without toppings?

    I understand claying when the surface becomes contaminated. That definitely helps some.
    Longevity, for me, is something best measured in in ways other than the mere passage of time.

    We have 2 cars with considerably different usage patterns; both protected with same set of products and getting the same maintenance; product combo was rated 24-36 months. One car met the longevity expectations, the other far exceeded it (or would have if I didn`t re-do it early)

    Car 1 was at 3 years and coating performance was probably 85% `like new` when I removed and redid it. Likely easily coulda gone another 2 years barring any changes to usage patterns. About 17k miles at time of redo.

    Car 2 was at 2 years and was recently redone as coating had reached it`s functional endpoint with regards to hydrophobic/self cleaning performance. About 43k miles at time of redo.

    Car 1 is about 5500 miles a year, no freeway, sits outside from April thru November but only really driven daily November thru April, short trips, no freeway.

    For 1st 2 years it sat outside 24/7, 365 days a year. We live on a wooded lot so it would spend weeks in Spring and Fall covered in debris from Maple, Oak, Cottonwood and all manner of other trees, mixed with frequent rain, snow and frost.

    Car 2 is year round daily driver, generally always garaged, 20k miles a year, 95% freeway.

    All are in NE Ohio.

    Same protection, varying usage far different likely outcomes. Freeway use, especially during winter, is very, very hard on a vehicles finish.` Merely sitting static outside as Car 1 has done most of its life seemed to have relatively little detrimental effect on coating. Here in the wintery NE, mileage w/ the consideration of how the car is used seems to be more indicative of longevity as opposed to the passage of time.

    That said, I`m a `topper guy` so for my personal cars, I`ve probably never gone more than 3-4 months (Winter) without putting a little something extra on the paint, both for functional and entertainment reasons. Summer, maybe once a month.

    Many of the coatings I`ve tried I applied on fleet vans at work, which *maybe* get a touchless tunnel wash 3 or 4 times a year and coming up on 3 years (I started all this madness in 2016-2017), the quality ones are still doing well. They stay `3ft away clean and shiny` with little to no intervention. They surely don`t bead as well as when applied but aside from something to take neat pictures of, beads/beading is functionally irrelevant to me.

    Coatings to me are really no different than sealants with the added benefit of `supercharging` the characteristics of a really good sealant. Better protection for longer with less ongoing effort.

    I kinda got all of our personal cars `set` last Summer and don`t really expect to do much to them for the next 3 to 4 years; wash, a little booster/topper now and that`ll be it. And the Summer-only toys will probably get to 5 years easy.

    Everything begins degrading the moment after it is applied, coatings are no different...they just do it far more slowly than other LSP`s I`ve tried. Like aging, time takes its toll in everything but coatings help me `prolong the inevitable` as best I can.

    Perhaps I should start thinking of boosters/toppers as Botox for my paint/coatings.
    Likes DetailZeus, bad penny, SWETM liked this post

  7. #37

    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    76
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    I
    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    Longevity, for me, is something best measured in in ways other than the mere passage of time.

    We have 2 cars with considerably different usage patterns; both protected with same set of products and getting the same maintenance; product combo was rated 24-36 months. One car met the longevity expectations, the other far exceeded it (or would have if I didn`t re-do it early)

    Car 1 was at 3 years and coating performance was probably 85% `like new` when I removed and redid it. Likely easily coulda gone another 2 years barring any changes to usage patterns. About 17k miles at time of redo.

    Car 2 was at 2 years and was recently redone as coating had reached it`s functional endpoint with regards to hydrophobic/self cleaning performance. About 43k miles at time of redo.

    Car 1 is about 5500 miles a year, no freeway, sits outside from April thru November but only really driven daily November thru April, short trips, no freeway.

    For 1st 2 years it sat outside 24/7, 365 days a year. We live on a wooded lot so it would spend weeks in Spring and Fall covered in debris from Maple, Oak, Cottonwood and all manner of other trees, mixed with frequent rain, snow and frost.

    Car 2 is year round daily driver, generally always garaged, 20k miles a year, 95% freeway.

    All are in NE Ohio.

    Same protection, varying usage far different likely outcomes. Freeway use, especially during winter, is very, very hard on a vehicles finish.` Merely sitting static outside as Car 1 has done most of its life seemed to have relatively little detrimental effect on coating. Here in the wintery NE, mileage w/ the consideration of how the car is used seems to be more indicative of longevity as opposed to the passage of time.

    That said, I`m a `topper guy` so for my personal cars, I`ve probably never gone more than 3-4 months (Winter) without putting a little something extra on the paint, both for functional and entertainment reasons. Summer, maybe once a month.

    Many of the coatings I`ve tried I applied on fleet vans at work, which *maybe* get a touchless tunnel wash 3 or 4 times a year and coming up on 3 years (I started all this madness in 2016-2017), the quality ones are still doing well. They stay `3ft away clean and shiny` with little to no intervention. They surely don`t bead as well as when applied but aside from something to take neat pictures of, beads/beading is functionally irrelevant to me.

    Coatings to me are really no different than sealants with the added benefit of `supercharging` the characteristics of a really good sealant. Better protection for longer with less ongoing effort.

    I kinda got all of our personal cars `set` last Summer and don`t really expect to do much to them for the next 3 to 4 years; wash, a little booster/topper now and that`ll be it. And the Summer-only toys will probably get to 5 years easy.

    Everything begins degrading the moment after it is applied, coatings are no different...they just do it far more slowly than other LSP`s I`ve tried. Like aging, time takes its toll in everything but coatings help me `prolong the inevitable` as best I can.

    Perhaps I should start thinking of boosters/toppers as Botox for my paint/coatings.

    If you were a consumer who paid $1,000 to have this "special" coating installed would it bother you that the beading had stopped in less then 2 years?

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    804
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by bad penny View Post
    I


    If you were a consumer who paid $1,000 to have this "special" coating installed would it bother you that the beading had stopped in less then 2 years?
    You have to factor in when getting a $1000 coating job that $400-600 is for paint correction and prep that would needed to be done even if just waxing.

    As a consumer then the “cost” of a coating is roughly $400-500. Is that worth it for two years? Depends on maintenance cost to me as im going to need wax or sealant applied every 3-4 months....



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #39
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,261
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by bad penny View Post
    I


    If you were a consumer who paid $1,000 to have this "special" coating installed would it bother you that the beading had stopped in less then 2 years?
    Not if it were competently explained to me that beading is for show, sheeting is for go.

    If I could find a coating that is hydrophillic instead of hydrophobic, I`d be all over that. Don`t really care what my car looks like when wet, it`s what it looks like when it dries that matters to me.
    Likes Oneheadlite, Coatings=crack liked this post

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,160
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    Not if it were competently explained to me that beading is for show, sheeting is for go.

    If I could find a coating that is hydrophillic instead of hydrophobic, I`d be all over that. Don`t really care what my car looks like when wet, it`s what it looks like when it dries that matters to me.
    Now it`s not a coating though. But Soft99 Water Block Wax is designed to be sheeting properties only. If I only had more cars to test out on I would be over more products like this. I still have that Soft99 Glaco Mirror Coat Zero which is for side mirrors and the backing camera lens to also be hydrophilic so you have visual even when the vehical standing still or you have that vacuum sometimes where beads just hangs on to the mirrors. They do some cool stuff Soft99 I think. Bought the Soft99 Ultra Glaco glass sealant during the BF sales. Just need to be haveing a warm garage LOL.

    The ceramic coatings that`s proffessional installed with a warranty on them. You mostly needs to be takeing in to the installer every 6 months. What they do then is a chemical decon and apply a topper on it. Not many coatings if any would 5 years without any chemical decon at least yearly and sometimes more often depending on the environment you live in and what kind of milage you have on the vehical. This is IMO something budgetplan has dialed in on his personal cars. Especially the spring decon clean up. With usually both a tar remover and iron remover IIRC. After a hard winter months where you have road salt covered roads this is usually needed to be done even on a coating. Also the topper that you use is very important that it keep somewhat of the coating performance and don`t degrade it. So many things comes in to play with coatings. But haveing a check up on the coatings performance on your customers vehicals I personally think is very important. As some customers just don`t take care of their vehicals as you want to. It`s enough that they just wash with a low end wash and wax car soap. And they have a huge drop in the performance on their coatings. So I would say it also depends on the customer on how well their coatings performance is. When you come to great consumer coatings you should not be haveing much problems getting it over 2 years or so with a normal daily driven use on it. Maybe some you may need to be useing a topper mid way for getting it`s performance higher during the coating life. If you expect from a coating to have the performance as have when newly applyied after 2 years it`s not going to happen. With a topper you might have 60%-80% and without any toppers 40%-60%of it`s initial performance from them generally speaking this is. It is like with a 6 months sealant and you just wash it and let it go. Usually around 4-5 months we as Autopians think it`s done and needs to be reapplyied. The same it is with ceramic coatings that their performance drops over time. And not starts to drop until the claimed longevity from it has passed. With coatings it`s also needed to be maintained great as it`s on for such of a long time vs a sealant. Though IMO a sealant after the winter months may benefit from a decon too and can have some performance left from them if topped up afterwards as well. Since coatings has suçh of a high performance during a long time it`s very important to keep it contaminants free as possible. Just my personally thoughts about coatings.
    Likes BudgetPlan1 liked this post
    Thanks BudgetPlan1 thanked for this post

  11. #41

    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    76
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    Not if it were competently explained to me that beading is for show, sheeting is for go.

    How would you explain that at around the 2 year mark, "beading will turn into sheeting which is what we were after all along anyway " to a potential client?
    I`m afraid I would get crazy looks.

  12. #42
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,261
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by bad penny View Post
    How would you explain that at around the 2 year mark, "beading will turn into sheeting which is what we were after all along anyway " to a potential client?
    I`m afraid I would get crazy looks.
    It`s quite possible you would get crazy looks. Unfortunately I can`t speak to that possibility as the only person I have to answer to is myself....and even then I usually end up giving myself crazy looks.

  13. #43
    Rasky's Auto Detailing RaskyR1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Posts
    4,996
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by bad penny View Post
    I


    If you were a consumer who paid $1,000 to have this "special" coating installed would it bother you that the beading had stopped in less then 2 years?
    If beading falls off that quickly it`s almost always due to lack of care by the owner (See Washing). I have several clients that take care of their cars going on over 4 years now with their coatings working as advertised. I`ve also had clients with beading that fell off within 6-12 months. The ones the fell off either failed to wash regularly and if/when they did wash it was just a touchless wash, which does not get the paint clean. If dirt is allowed to sit on the surface for a long time it will eventually start to bond to the surface and kill the hydrophobic properties. Winter chemicals can also clog up the coating but with regular washing and maybe an occasional decon (APC/Bug Squash) added in can keep them in check IME. With coatings you get out of them what you`re willing to put in. If you wash weekly or even bi-weekly you should have no trouble getting well over 2 years out of them, even without a topper. Up until this summer my longest running coating job (coated in 2010 with Opti-Coat) which I could still monitor was at 9 years and running until he traded it in for a new car last August. It was very well cared for, garaged, and only had 40,000 miles, but it was 9 YEARS! He always commented on how great it was and sent lots of work my way (I`ve worked with him for 14 years now and saw the car daily).
    Likes BudgetPlan1 liked this post

  14. #44

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,160
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by bad penny View Post
    How would you explain that at around the 2 year mark, "beading will turn into sheeting which is what we were after all along anyway " to a potential client?
    I`m afraid I would get crazy looks.
    Just be honest about how the ceramic coating you apply on the customers vehical works during it`s lifetime. That it degrades over time but still with a good maintance they get the performance from it in the self cleaning ability from it and the ease of washing it and also the looks from it. This is if they maintain it great and if they don`t it will be swirled up if they keep maintain their vehical as they did before if it where neglected when you got it. Also that you can keep the performance from it at a higher level if you are getting to do maintance on it every 6 months. Or if the customer is interested to do it them self then tell them how to do it. Maybe not the best business way to go with the hype about ceramic coatings. But you will have many more customer for life this way. And also being known as someone who cares about their customer and don`t just leave them stranded after a application of a 5 year coating. And they comes in before it`s been 2 years. Wondering why their coating has not lasted and is swirled up again. And you tell them how they should have maintained it and get them more cost of the maintance on the coating from now on.

    Some just like the polishing and the ceramic coating application. Then don`t care a crap about it after that. Decon and maintance is boring or something like that LOL. So it`s about how you as a business owner take care of your customers. IMO the huge difference is the longer time between the ones that you apply a sealant on and a ceramic coating. Also how long the claim is on the ceramic coating you use on customers vehicals. Personally I would use like a 3 year coating like say CQUK 3.0. And claim it`s a 2 year coating with 3 maintance visits. Or explain how they get 2 year out of it but without any warranty if they maintain it them self. Let`s say you offer the new Adam`s Ceramic Coating UV with a claimed longevity of 5 years. We don`t have any knowledge about if this coating lasts any near 5 years. What if it`s done after 3 years? Do you think even as a business owner that they will stand behind you and your customer to get it right? Maybe you have more backing up if you are a certified ceramic coating installer and have a contract with the brand you are useing. But I think that there is such many of loopholes in the warranty of thesekind of coatings. That those that fails earlier makes to have an unhappy customer to handle if such would be happening. So it`s takes a lot of thinking from a business view on how you will want it to be. I would like to cover my self as much as possible and also my customer too. Being that the fail risk is minimal for us both and we can have a good companionship for a long time. This I think that the brutal honesty is the way to go with. Both the great and the bad explained thoroughly before going with the customer and you takeing care of their vehicals for a long time. See it like a 6 months sealant that you decon and reapply it. But it with great maintance can give you the 2 years or so before doing the big reapplication with a finishing polish step and maybe some spot correction done. And you start all over again both happy hopefully. Upsell the wheel coating and trim coating and windshield coating which usually is 1 year ones. At the same time the extra maintance on the paint coating can be covered in the initial price of the paint coating. The extra time for decon and topper is usually not that time consuming. And with a slightly higher price for the paint coating with the upsell other coatings can be something good I think. Maybe have 1 year coating lite options too. With a primer polish this is a combo that you can get it from. Then you have the customer coming back more often too. And the amount of the coating lite products usually gets you more vehicals done at the same expense as a ceramic coating. A yearly finishing polish step with the primer polish also gives you some extra incomes more often. And depending on the customer it`s a benefit to have them coming in more often and they have a better looking vehical with coming in more often to you. A maintance every 6 months on this too and maybe upsell a glass sealant and trim sealant on these every 6 months. It`s many ways to go with it. But I would want to see the customers every 6months or yearly at least. And don`t fire and forget kind of way with a long lasting ceramic coating with a longevity from it over 3 years. So find out the positive in the different kind of protection products and what you can upsell on to different packages. And this has only been the exterior too. You have the interior carpets and vinyl and plastic and leather maintance and engine compartment and how you do with the door jambs and other jambs. And what`s included in the different packages. With prices that don`t scare customers away and also what`s in them and so on. Not easy to find out and the huge difference between where you live and also what kind of environment you have. Is the customers or the market maybe more interested in the interior or exterior. Many try to stay away from the interior these days. Maybe there is a more open market where you live. With great products you can make the maintance for you or the customer way easier in an interior today. And many customers values this more. And is satisfied with glossenhancment on the exterior with a sealant or coating lite range of durability from it. Finding something that sticks out in the competion you have from other detailers in your surroundings.

    Oops sorry for getting away from the topic LOL. But with honesty you come a long way with a business in the long haul I think. And if I understand right you have or want a detailing business of some kind. If it`s for personally use you thinking about a ceramic coating. It`s the same as if you have a business. With a thorough decon every 6months with what`s needed depending on the contaminants you have gotten or not. And if the performance from it has degraded so much so a topper on it would raise the performance from it again is due to be doing. With the well knowned and proven consumer ceramic coatings. They have great maintance products in their line up that gives about the claimed longevity from it. With a generally normal daily driven vehical. If letting a detailer install the ceramic coating. Listen if he`s going about it honestly or if he`s up on the moon and talking about it. That`s something that I missing from the proffessional detailers here on the forum about shareing how they maintain a certified installed ceramic coating. And also when they getting in the vehicals for a reapplication of a such of a coating and if it`s been living up to the claims from it. A few have done it but would be interesting to see more of it from time to time. And there I did it again with rambling on LOL

  15. #45

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    84,883
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    I bet Pros with customers who care have to do a *lot* of explaining about things like Coatings vs. conventional LSPs, beading vs. sheeting, and a lot of other topics (including the whole can-o`-worms that is "marring"). I`d *expect* the beading/sheeting and expected durability topics to be pretty straightforward, especially if the Pros remember to underpromise (in hopes of overdelivering).

    Though I do wonder how many customers really *do* care about the nitty-gritty of such topics.

 

 
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 9 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 9 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Describing "The Look" of Waxes, Sealants , and Coatings
    By Lonnie in forum Car Detailing Product Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-04-2019, 12:02 PM
  2. Old Dog learns a new trick with "coatings"
    By rotts4u in forum Car Detailing Product Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-30-2016, 01:24 PM
  3. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-06-2014, 08:50 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-04-2011, 03:35 PM
  5. "Industrial Coatings" sealant anyone?
    By scout in forum Car Detailing
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-19-2004, 12:05 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •