Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 52
  1. #16

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    84,872
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by quebert
    My favorite is when I see products that are touted as "semi-permanent" So it`s permanent, but only for a bit of time?
    Heh heh...aw man, I *like* that term! I almost posted something about it earlier on this thread. As I understand it, the idea is that the product is indeed, more or less permanent in that it doesn`t "fail" just due to the passage of time. E.g., put multiple coats of KSG on something and wax on something else; put both in climate-controlled storage for ages; the KSG will stay OK indefinitely but the wax will eventually degrade/dissiapate/"go away". (That`s an IRL example too; the KSG on some bits of my mothballed Jag is still OK after over a decade but the wax on the rest of it was dead many years ago..although it lasted a lot longer than some might`ve expected.)
    Likes BudgetPlan1 liked this post

  2. #17
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,260
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Heh heh...aw man, I *like* that term! I almost posted something about it earlier on this thread. As I understand it, the idea is that the product is indeed, more or less permanent in that it doesn`t "fail" just due to the passage of time. E.g., put multiple coats of KSG on something and wax on something else; put both in climate-controlled storage for ages; the KSG will stay OK indefinitely but the wax will eventually degrade/dissiapate/"go away". (That`s an IRL example too; the KSG on some bits of my mothballed Jag is still OK after over a decade but the wax on the rest of it was dead many years ago..although it lasted a lot longer than some might`ve expected.)
    Any thoughts on to why the wax degrades over time given the lack of `harmful exposure`? Cuz I havent a clue which, according to the better half, is par for the course for me

  3. #18

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Riverside, CA
    Posts
    367
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    Any thoughts on to why the wax degrades over time given the lack of `harmful exposure`? Cuz I havent a clue which, according to the better half, is par for the course for me
    Buy more products, buy new products! If I wax my car and top it with a topper, the wax still degrades into nothing even if I keep it topped with bi weekly applications of a sealant. The detailing market is a big scam. I buy a multi year coating, they recommend I put a booster on it. Why can`t the damn coating have said booster already in it? And why am I topping a $100 coating with a $15 booster? I bet in 2020 we`ll see the introduction of topper boosters, because the topper needs a boost too right?

    I watched a Renny Doyle video on P&S`s interior cleaner. He said they make it "easy" yet, I ended up having to order 3 separate products. A cleaner, a enzyme thingy and some sort of Peroxide based whatever. How is using 3 different products to clean seats and carpets easy? Easy to me = 1 product.

    THAT`S IT! After my next detailing order, I`m going back on detailing strike for another year.

  4. #19

    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    801
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Beadmaker is topper booster no?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #20

    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Keokuk, Iowa
    Posts
    3,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    #1 is heat, #2 is exposure to corrosive chemicals. Heat creates "fracturing"-"evaporation" of the surface applied product.
    "Logic dictates I have been at this detailing thing way too many years!":wink1:
    Thanks BudgetPlan1 thanked for this post

  6. #21
    512detail's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Kyle, Tx
    Posts
    9,032
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    On a local car page I saw a detailer tell someone that a trim coating (carpro dlux is what he was referring to) was permanent for the lifetime of the coating. His semantics gave me one good chuckle.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


    Brandt K.
    Likes BudgetPlan1 liked this post

  7. #22

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Green Bay, WI
    Posts
    1,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    The word "permanent" is synonymous with "lifetime guarantee". According to the Wisconsin Department of Consumer Protection
    and our state legal system, cases involving claims against products with the term "lifetime guarantee" were warranted for a maximum of 6 to 7 years, depending on the product and court case with settled litigation and judgments that were (and are) used as precedents in other cases involving products determined to have "lifetime guarantees". It also implies that lifetime means the time a company or business entity that makes or distributes and/or sells the warranted product stays in business, NOT how long YOU own and use the product.
    Personally, I would like to outlaw the term "lifetime guarantee" OR require a company that makes such claims for its product to have a escrow account with enough money to cover at least 30% of the quantity products sold at the retail price that is set aside for consumers in case of bankruptcy. The term "lifetime guarantee" is such a misleading term that influences consumer buying decisions about products.

    That and the fact that MOST consumers do not read the fine print in warranties. We found this out when looking for replacement windows for our house. Most double and triple window pains are filled with argon gas to get the energy-star rating from the US Department of Energy. Unfortunately because of the nature of argon gas, it will start escaping the moment the window is filled and will be completely gone in 4 to 6 years at best and long-term window warranties DO NOT cover argon gas "insulation" and what you are left with is an empty pain without the original energy-star rating. Some window manufacturers do offer Krypton gas as the between pane insulation which last much long, but it is more expensive for the window (about $150 to $400 per window, depending on the number of panes and size of the window). Is it worth it? Yes, you plan on keeping the house more than 3 years. No, if you plan on selling the house in one or two years, but want to have a house with energy-star rated windows (at least initially when the windows were installed). Again, buyer beware!
    GB detailer
    Likes BudgetPlan1 liked this post

  8. #23
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,260
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by quebert View Post
    Buy more products, buy new products! If I wax my car and top it with a topper, the wax still degrades into nothing even if I keep it topped with bi weekly applications of a sealant. The detailing market is a big scam. I buy a multi year coating, they recommend I put a booster on it. Why can`t the damn coating have said booster already in it? And why am I topping a $100 coating with a $15 booster? I bet in 2020 we`ll see the introduction of topper boosters, because the topper needs a boost too right?

    I watched a Renny Doyle video on P&S`s interior cleaner. He said they make it "easy" yet, I ended up having to order 3 separate products. A cleaner, a enzyme thingy and some sort of Peroxide based whatever. How is using 3 different products to clean seats and carpets easy? Easy to me = 1 product.

    THAT`S IT! After my next detailing order, I`m going back on detailing strike for another year.
    Lemme know how that detailing `strike` thing works for you...if I had a nickel for every time I said the same thing I`d have enough $$ to buy 500ml of `Color Charged Cosmic Spritz`!


    Quote Originally Posted by Coatings=crack View Post
    Beadmaker is topper booster no?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I guess anything could be a topper/booster but since Beadmaker is more from the sealant family, it was a step backwards on top of a coating. Is fun stuff to use though if it fits into your plans.

  9. #24

    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    801
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post

    I guess anything could be a topper/booster but since Beadmaker is more from the sealant family, it was a step backwards on top of a coating. Is fun stuff to use though if it fits into your plans.
    No I get it. Was just pokin a little fun at the ol Beadmaker. It looks good but product reminds me of speed shine. Looks amazing slick as hell but need to apply weekly.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Likes BudgetPlan1 liked this post

  10. #25

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    84,872
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    Any thoughts on to why the wax degrades over time given the lack of `harmful exposure`?
    Besides what Ron Ketcham noted, I figure that "natural" waxes just degrade over time, perhaps through mere exposure to air. But I really don`t know either.

    I will say that Souveran lasts pretty long on a (properly) stored car, longer than I`d expected, and that sealants last *VERY* long...in fact, I`ve never had one die when not exposed to normal use. We`ll see when I get the S8 out of mothballs, it`s been stashed away with UPP on it (and that stuff isn`t much in the durability/protection dept.). The Crown Vic has only been sitting for a few years, but the FK1000P I applied in 2016 is still just fine.
    Thanks BudgetPlan1 thanked for this post

  11. #26
    William_Wallace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    89
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Nanotechsolutions is the only other coating company to offer SIC based coating but it’s pricey and water behavior looked only par
    Likes BudgetPlan1 liked this post

  12. #27
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NorCal.. Avatar = Swan Lake, Hallstatt, Austria
    Posts
    4,473
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post
    I think it was only Optimum that suggested that Opti-Coat was permanent. It`s an SiC coating, rather than an SiO2 coating. I do believe it`s pretty much permanently on there if it`s applied properly. And so is the paint, but if you let the clearcoat sit outside for 5 years without doing anything to it, it`s not going too look too great...and same for the coating. Except the coating is way thinner than the clearcoat.

    As far as the aftermath...I think you can look at the forums every day to hear about customers that thought a coating was going to be a force shield and are disappointed.

    In my experiences with this, the original Optimum Opti-Guard product did indeed last past 5 years on my Black Grand Cherokee, through several thousand miles of highway driving between WA, Northern CA, to Texas and back many, many, times, seeing snow, sleet, hail, dust, rain, bugs, etc., and always looked great when I got there..

    The first time I made that trip from WA to Texas (3,000 miles, 1-direction), with the Coating newly applied and cured, it looked like I had just washed that big Black Grand Cherokee.. It barely had any road dirt stuck to it.. Yes, this Coating was that good for that trip.. It diminished a bit over the next years, but it was still on there doing its job..

    As far as I know, Optimum back then, was the one of the first companies that not only developed their own product, but did extensive testing for several years on real-time out in the world vehicles, before they released it to the public..

    They eventually priced most of us Detailers out of their market as the price they charged us kept going up and up, and they wanted to lock me in to buy xxx amount of the product every year, or they would not sell it to me any longer.. I left...
    Dan F
    Thanks BudgetPlan1 thanked for this post

  13. #28
    Rasky's Auto Detailing RaskyR1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Posts
    4,996
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    In my experiences with this, the original Optimum Opti-Guard product did indeed last past 5 years on my Black Grand Cherokee, through several thousand miles of highway driving between WA, Northern CA, to Texas and back many, many, times, seeing snow, sleet, hail, dust, rain, bugs, etc., and always looked great when I got there..

    The first time I made that trip from WA to Texas (3,000 miles, 1-direction), with the Coating newly applied and cured, it looked like I had just washed that big Black Grand Cherokee.. It barely had any road dirt stuck to it.. Yes, this Coating was that good for that trip.. It diminished a bit over the next years, but it was still on there doing its job..

    As far as I know, Optimum back then, was the one of the first companies that not only developed their own product, but did extensive testing for several years on real-time out in the world vehicles, before they released it to the public..

    They eventually priced most of us Detailers out of their market as the price they charged us kept going up and up, and they wanted to lock me in to buy xxx amount of the product every year, or they would not sell it to me any longer.. I left...
    Dan F
    That`s because it was a lot better when it first came out. All the revisions they made (likely to try and improve gloss and application) ruined what was so great about the coating and I know several peeps that used it from early on who would agree with me. I coated my co-workers G37 in 2010 with it and he raved about it until he finally traded the car in last August. Granted it was very well cared for, garaged, and only had around 40,000 miles, but 9 years with no boosters and still showing life.
    Likes SWETM, BudgetPlan1, Stokdgs, Loach liked this post

  14. #29

    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    69
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Bottom line. You`ll be lucky to get 2 years out of a coating. Imo they offer no additional protection to your paint either.

  15. #30

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    84,872
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: "Permanent" Coatings

    Heh heh...it just kills me that today`s coatings apparently aren`t as good as the OptiCoat I have experience with. That stuff was *maybe* worth the hassle, but if something`s inferior to it durability-wise? No thanks..
    Likes BudgetPlan1 liked this post

 

 
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 10 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 10 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Describing "The Look" of Waxes, Sealants , and Coatings
    By Lonnie in forum Car Detailing Product Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-04-2019, 12:02 PM
  2. Old Dog learns a new trick with "coatings"
    By rotts4u in forum Car Detailing Product Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-30-2016, 01:24 PM
  3. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-06-2014, 08:50 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-04-2011, 03:35 PM
  5. "Industrial Coatings" sealant anyone?
    By scout in forum Car Detailing
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-19-2004, 12:05 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •