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  1. #16

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    Re: What`s up with Jeweling Waxes? (and Jeweling in general)

    Loach- Heh heh, yeah... I figure that whenever the Jag gets washed it oughta get another quick coat of Souveran

  2. #17

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    Re: What`s up with Jeweling Waxes? (and Jeweling in general)

    Wow thanks for shareing your findings with the gloss meter Loach!

    Do you have a thread or a site where you write up your findings with the gloss meter? Or would you be intrested to do so? Maybe edit the first comment in the thread with the different findings. And maybe have 3 classes with wax and sealants and coatings. Then edit in along with the highest readings on top. Would be very helpfull for most people.

    Is there any gloss meter that could read more than the the highest shine gloss? It`s certainly a cool tool to have when you like to test out different products

    /Tony

  3. #18

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    Re: What`s up with Jeweling Waxes? (and Jeweling in general)

    Quote Originally Posted by RaysWay View Post
    I`m a big fan of jewelling using the traditional ultrafine pad, ultrafine abrasive and rotary polisher. Todd Helme has some great technical information on why a rotary is needed...but I think the term jewelling is being used differently with these recent new products, especially sincr they include built-in LSP`s.

    A major factor in the McKee`s Jewelling Wax is convenience. I hear the question all the time: "Isn`t there just one product I can use to shine my paint?"...the average Joe doesn`t want to use a dedicated polish to refine their paint, and then spend even more time protecting it.



    For the guy with a garage queen that gets a fresh coat of a carnauba wax before a car show but needs something every once in awhile to maximize their gloss, they can easily use the same tools and technique. Some dogs don`t want to learn any new tricks so to make it as simple as possible I just tell them to use THIS (jeweling wax) every X months and use THIS (carnauba wax) every time they show their car.

    Even for pros a jeweling wax can make sense. I detailed a show car recently and the owner simply wanted it waxed. I looked at the paint and knew a mild abrasive could amplify the gloss...so I used a jeweling wax and the results were great.

    For these cases, these type of Jeweling waxes make sense. Just another type of product to fill our tool boxes with more surgical and specialized precision.
    Interesting discussion. Do you think you get any better/different results from McKee`s or even the Pinnacle product than you would from using similar techniques and pads but using a more traditional AIO from a reputable brand?

  4. #19
    AMG Classic Car Detailing Old Pirate's Avatar
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    Re: What`s up with Jeweling Waxes? (and Jeweling in general)

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    "Everything Old is New again", as the saying goes. And yeah...[INSERT cynical comment on the products you !simply have to buy! to have a decent looking car ] Sorry, couldn`t resist

    Yeah, sorta like an AIO/CleanerWax without the chemical cleaners (or with fewer of `em). Maybe the "Jeweling Wax" label will make them more acceptable to people who !wouldn`t be caught dead! using a CleanerWax.

    Sounds exactly like my pre-VOC 1Z WaxPolishSoft. IME a little dose of abrasives makes such stuff buff off easier.

    And seriously, despite all my sorta-snarky comments above, this sounds like a good product IMO. Not for any "Jeweling"/burnishing of the paint, but just as a variation on the AIO/CleanerWax theme.

    You nailed it Accumulator,


    EIDT: I really don`t understand why the term "Jeweling" got accepted instead of "Burnishing". The former already has a specific (and different) meaning with regard to its process and end result, while the latter is exactly what we`re talking about here. Eh, OK...I know..."the language evolves", but when it comes to stuff other than autopaint the two words have vastly different meanings. Tell a machinist/gunsmith/etc. that you`re "jeweling" and he won`t think you mean "polishing it beyond visible perfection marring-wise"; tell *anybody* that you`re burnishing a surface, any surface, and they oughta know exactly/correctly what you mean. OK, OK...end of rant
    Back in the older days ( 30-60 yrs ago ) alot of detailers would call it " Burnishing " but ( there`s always is a but in there ) a few of them say the word " Jeweling " and one of those was my late uncle who been detailing for over 40 years in NYC. I pick up that word but never really use it because so many folks would be thinking Gunsmith`s and machinist trades. From work I would make and send out special industrial paints for the machinist shops and I have ask them about this a few yrs ago and they told me the word Burnishing is used alot among them in the trade but Jeweling is not to them. But to each their own on what terms they want to use.
    AutopiaForums is the place to be.
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  5. #20
    AMG Classic Car Detailing Old Pirate's Avatar
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    Re: What`s up with Jeweling Waxes? (and Jeweling in general)

    Now I need to find the time to work on my ride and get some products.
    AutopiaForums is the place to be.
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  6. #21

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    Re: What`s up with Jeweling Waxes? (and Jeweling in general)

    Sorry to hijack this thread, (really? again Captain Obvious!) but there are some "terms" used to describe the look of a wax`s, sealant`s, or coating`s "gloss".
    Reflectivity or mirror-like
    Depth
    Jetting (never understood this one)
    Wetness or wet-look
    After reading this thread, it seems that LSPs physically mute or diminish the glossiness of a prepped and cleaned surface, at least to a gloss-meter. However, the human eye seems to perceive otherwise when you factor in the other terms mentioned above.

    For those of you who wish to see a discussion between Autopian All-stars Barry Theal and Kevin Brown from 2010 (Yes, it is old!) on jeweling, please see:
    https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-d...light=jeweling
    Please see the prophetic statement made by Barry in post #25! It is quite an eye-opener!!

    Accumulator,
    Semantics aside, TECHNICALLY this fine polishing as done to paints IS burnishing , BUT to differentiate this polishing process from that used on metals from paints, jeweling applies to automotive (vehicle) paints to give it a "jewel-like" appearance, if that makes any sense. That said, I do not think that HOW you burnish a metal is identical to HOW you jewel vehicle paint/clear coat, and maybe that is the difference in terminology. (Back to semantics).
    GB detailer

  7. #22

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    Re: What`s up with Jeweling Waxes? (and Jeweling in general)

    Old Pirate- I might be dating myself (or at least those who influenced me) with this terminology as I do on many other topics

    I just don`t get the logic behind not using the long-established terms the way some have been using them for centuries. As my wife says, "the language evolves", but I`m not gonna change my vocabulary in ways that I feel make for less precise communication...and thinking. IMO, larger, more differentiated vocabularies are better stocked toolboxes.

    Machinists/etc. burnish stuff. They also jewel stuff. Two completely different processes that need to be differentiated lest there be confusion.

    If "jeweling" means [this paint-related polishing] in addition to the usual machinist`s definition, then when do we use "burnishing"? And what about conflating the two terms in machining/gunsmithing contexts (bet you and I share some background experiences.. )?

    None of the above is intended as a slam at your uncle, hope it didn`t come across that way. Older (than us) Detailers do indeed use some terms differently and they aren`t always consistent. The oldest Detailer *I* know uses "buffer" to mean a rotary, and he looks down his nose a "polishers" which to him mean RO/DA machines (which he considers junk...note this guy ruined my Jaguar when he disregarded my explicit instructions about how to polish it/not). He`s been using those terms that way for over 50 years and he`s not gonna change...OK, but it makes for confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
    Accumulator,
    Semantics aside, TECHNICALLY this fine polishing as done to paints IS burnishing , BUT to differentiate this polishing process from that used on metals from paints, jeweling applies to automotive (vehicle) paints to give it a "jewel-like" appearance, if that makes any sense. That said, I do not think that HOW you burnish a metal is identical to HOW you jewel vehicle paint/clear coat, and maybe that is the difference in terminology. (Back to semantics).
    Yeah, just one of those agree-to-disagree topics I guess.

    Technically it is, so to me it just IS. Period, end.

    IMO it`s all the same- you abrade a surface to make it smoother/shinier and I see no reason to differentiate between paint or other surfaces since we`re talking about the process.

    Note that jewels DO NOT generally look smooth and shiny in their natural state...they need burnishing(!) to be that way. What we think of as "jewel-like" might make a lapidary while he burnishes that ruby to make it shiny.

    Heh heh, man I could *really* get insufferable if we pursued this much farther! I`m wasting enough bandwidth as it is

    Eh, we can just chalk this up to my being cantankerous and older than my (58) years in some ways.

 

 
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