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  1. #16
    Rasky's Auto Detailing RaskyR1's Avatar
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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    If you`re concerned about rock chips and plan on keeping it that long then I`d say have the film done, however, while Suntek looks great, on white I would NOT go with Suntek as IME it seems more prone to yellowing on clinets cars that I`ve seen. I also know many installers can stretch the film to do it in one piece but I also question how it affects the film appearance too as I can`t find a local installer capable of doing a defect free install even WITHOUT stretching it to fit. That being said I would rather have a stretched 1-piece with stretch marks vs. having seems and a multi-piece hood, especially on white as the edges can get dirty over time and become more noticeable.

    With a self-healing film I`m not sure why you would want to polish it though? With proper care it really shouldn`t need it, just wash and apply a good clear LSP like Opti-Seal and call it a day...I do feel a coating would be far better on film though. FWIW, if you "need" to polish the film it can be done, just know the self-healing top coat and especially some of the new "coated" films are thin and excessive polishing can remove or diminish them. I know a lot of coating installers are flying over some of the new coated films with a polisher prior to coating them too.
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  2. #17

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    Hey, I have a Q: are PPFs sensitive to the stuff in some LSPs? I simply don`t know. Older PPFs (like the stuff on older Audis/Porsches) *are* kinda sensitive about what could be used on `em and are especially sensitive to abrasives; thinning them via abrasion is a no-no.

    Stokdgs- Ya know...actually I`m *NOT* anti-PPF even though my previous post strongly implied that (heh heh, yeah..."Accumulator is talking out of both sides of his big mouth ), at least not categorically. Why [shoot], I still want to find somebody to put a few pieces of it on a couple of my vehicles (where the`re gonna get touched, not on the leading surfaces). Now that I`ve thoroughly equivocated...

    -Yes indeed, I`m generally a fanatic for original paint. "Better imperfect oe paint than a repaint!" gee, how many times have I posted that?!? Yeah, I too believe it`s better in many (if not all) ways than even the finest repaint. E.g., post-production paintwork is always, IME, more prone to chipping. If IXLRS is gonna have stone chip issues, that`s a perfectly good reason to PPF it, and he oughta know what his challenges are better than I do!

    -If there *is* any discoloration of the PPF, I`d expect it to show on white.

    -Conditions/circumstances differ, so it might be just the ticket for many people no matter what.

    I did not want to say anything about your guy recommending any Meguiars product for clear bra maintenance, but since Senor Accumulator` already started it,
    I could not agree more with his comments...
    That "use [this particular Last Step Product on it]", offered without supporting rationale, is just *such* a red flag! I`d thank him for his time and leave after hearing that...something`s off there.

    And I always tell my Clients that anything that says "wax" on the label is always going to invite dirt to stick to it, so you need to be ok with that..

    The mixed signals of the product your guy mentioned - high tech wax that acts like a polymer sealant, etc... does one really believe that statement in the first place??
    In a few cases I do believe that...

    Some "waxes" that DO NOT retain/attract dirt and dust IME are: Meguiar`s M16 (a "real", old-school wax with carnauba in it); Optimum Car Wax (dunno what`s really in that one, I`d guess polymers, but it sure surprised me in a positive way); Finish Kare FK1000P, which they do *call* a "High Temp Paste Wax"; Collinite 845 Insulator Wax. But most of those are more synthetics or "resins" than they are natural waxes like carnauba, and anybody can call their products whatever they want so they`re "waxes". Otherwise, yeah...I do agree that waxes, real WAXES, don`t stay clean all that well compared to stuff like sealants, let alone coatings.

    IIRC, I`ve used all the LSPs I listed above, and also Klasse Sealant Glaze, on PPF with zero issues at all, and with no dirt attraction/retention.

    (Regulars here know I`d put FK1000P on that white Macan and never even consider anything else...whether PPFed or not Oh man would that look/last/protect great.)

    IXLRS- Hope I haven`t merely muddied the waters, easy enough to just ignore me if I have
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  3. #18

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    Wow, you guys have got my head spinning! I appreciate ALL your opinions and advise. Just don`t feel bad if I don`t take it

    I firmly believe there is no right answer and you can make a case for a number of "must have products" for one`s detail arsenal.

    I`m diving pretty heavy into the detailer vortex but don`t have nearly as much experience is this group has so I`m sure I`ll make a few mistakes along the way.

    I`ve invested a lot of bank in the past several weeks to get ready for this first detail of my Macan.

    Accumulator-I`ll check out this Klasse Sealant Glaze, may have to pick this up!
    What is a LSP?

    Stretchhhhing of film - ALL the high end film installers in my area (west coast) offer either a 3 pc solution or say they say they can stretch to fit. The issue is the Macan has a clamshell hood which is wider than than the film is made - regardless of the manufacture (!)

    Yellowing - I heard that Xpel is thicker then the Suntec film and not as optically clear (could be BS). The Xpel installer charges over 2K for a full hood, bumpers, mirrors, ect, no thank you.
    My favorite film installer - in defense of his "product recommendation", I was the one who asked him what he recommended for maintenance of the film. He said that his shop uses the Maguires Tech Wax 2.0. He has flawless reputation.
    Film maintenance - I`m sure there are many other possibly better products out there. I plan on trying several and hopefully find one I like. FWIW, I did hear to avoid Carnauba wax and opt for a good synthetic. I`m planning on trying CB All in One wax/sealant and others. I need a maintenance (cleaning and quick detailing) and waxing solution. Open to recommendations.

    I`m diving deep into the process and learning a great deal along the way. I can`t wait to use the products I`ve purchased. The steps I`m taking...
    Wash cannon & 2 bucket -strip wash
    Chemically decontaminate (gyon iron)
    Paint prep and inspection
    Taping
    Claybar
    Full correction & polish (maybe not full correction but as needed)
    Glaze
    Seal
    Wax
    Trim dressing
    Tire dressing

    I look forward to getting started. Today I heard that my Macan should arrive at my dealer next week


    Thanks for everyone`s help and comments!

  4. #19

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    For film maintenance after wash or in between washes from what I already have - Griots Speed Shine detailer Griots Best of Show detailer, Maguiers Last Touch detailer or pick up some CB Clear Seal Gloss Enhancer.

    For wax I could try Collinite 845, CB All in One, CB Butter wet wax - which I have on deck or could pick up some KK 1000P.

  5. #20

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    Quote Originally Posted by IXLRS View Post


    Yellowing - I heard that Xpel is thicker then the Suntec film and not as optically clear (could be BS). The Xpel installer charges over 2K for a full hood, bumpers, mirrors, ect, no thank you.
    Couple more things. Research, research, research is key. Which in this thread you are doing...

    Installer is KEY as well, mainly because these guys are literally taking xacto knives mm away from your paint....and there has been more than one instance where I`ve seen installs from the BEST in the industry, when you remove the film, you see cut marks. The film sort of masks the slight ~nick~ that is made from the Xacto.....

    Lastly, $2K sounds inline with what my current local MARKET rates are. Pricing is regional....so I can`t comment on that, but 2K seems about right to me if not even $500 less than what the local installer here would be...

    Seek NOT just a film installer but maybe align yourself with a great detailer who has relationships with a film installe
    r. This IMO would be the course I would seek if I`m dead set on a fim install. Great detailer followed by a great film installer. A Synergistic Combo I suppose
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  6. #21

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    IXLRS- Sorry to be inscrutable, LSP= Last Step Product..i.e., your wax or sealant.

    With your plan to keep it a good long time, I`d focus on the long-term. To me, that means not marring the paint (can only correct it so many times, and it`s not all that many) and protecting it. It`s pretty amazing how poorly/well some LSPs do that protecting! If a bird-bomb or bug guts etch your paint, you`ll be sorry, so I`d focus on maximum protection. White looks good as long as it`s clean and shiny and in a few years it`ll be *all* about how well you`ve protected it, not about how swell your chosen wax looks.

    I *STRONGLY* encourage you to *NOT* do the glaze/sealant/wax combo thing. Just pick one product (which I`d choose based on functional considerations) and put your efforts into getting your wash squared away so you don`t just mar it up. Seriously, washing a vehicle without marring the paint is extremely challenging and all that "combining different products" is, IMO...[bunk].

    Much as I can appreciate Klasse Sealant Glaze ("KSG"), which is a sealant rather than a glaze, I don`t think you`ll like it and most people find it less user-friendly than I do. Note that IME it`s only worth using if you`re doing at least 4 layers (spaced 24 hrs. apart). Though it looks fairly decent on white, I`d choose something else for your Macan. (Not hating on it, I still use it on three specific things on one vehicle.)

    OK, yeah..[REPEAT FK1000P or Collinite 845 suggestions]. IMO you`re best served by something that, with only one or two coats... lasts a long time, protects the paint from etching, cleans up easily, and is reasonably user-friendly.

    Be careful with the Meguiar`s Last Touch as it`s caused LSP issues for others, various LSPs don`t last in combination with it.

    I used *gallons* of SpeedShine over the years, and I don`t mean just five or eight, and ended up giving away my last gallon as with all the better alternatives I`d never have used it. Heh heh, nah...not suggesting you toss it, but check out the next paragraph for future consideration

    FWIW, and noting that I still have maybe 6-8 gallons of good Quick Detailers on the shelf, ever since I tried Garry Dean`s Infinite Use Detail Juice ("IUDJ", marketed primarily as a rinseless wash), I`ve done best using *that* as my Quick Detailer/Drying Aid/etc. Incredible to me still, never thought I`d even *like* it as I`m not a fan of Rinseless Washes, but it`s *that* good and 100% compatible with FK1000P. Mixed to QD-strength, it simply does everything better than my other QDs. Cheap too.

    Trim Dresssings- I never touch the stuff. If I want to overkill it, I seal my trim with Ultima Tire & Trim Guard Plus and just maintain it with either the IUDJ or a Spray Wax like Optimum Car Wax (good UV protection! Great for plastics like lenses and trim) or Meguiar`s D156/Ultimate Quik Wax. That Spray Wax approach works pretty well all by itself, but I`d do the UTTG+ (that long-term perspective again). It`s very user-friendly, but I do prep the surfaces with Griot`s Rubber Prep first.

    Only thing I dress is the tires and that`s a personal preference application, not sure what you`d like. Whatever you choose, use it sparingly and buff off any excess with an old MF (microfiber towel) lest you get "sling".

    And, while it`s easy for us to spend your money ...the last time I had some PPF done (by a member here), it cost* more than $2K, though I can`t recall just how much after all this time (it was that pricey maybe a decade ago, but if you pick the right/wrong guy, ya get what ya pay for...for better or worse).

    Oh, and white is a tricky color to inspect in some ways...be sure you have good Inspection Lighting. That`s good, because minor flaws don`t look as awful as on black, but it`s bad too, because it`s hard to see what`s-what when you want to but, sigh,....we all see the flaws clearly *later* when we thought it was OK.

    And finally, some general advice (which you probably don`t need, but anyhow..) : apply Critical Thinking Skills to this Detailing stuff just as you would to some, uhm...serious topic. Don`t worry about overthinking it! E.g., somebody says "[whatever] product is good/bad", OK....WHY?!? Clearly, explicitly, objectively, WHY? Think think think..
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  7. #22

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    IXLRS- Sorry to be inscrutable, LSP= Last Step Product..i.e., your wax or sealant.

    With your plan to keep it a good long time, I`d focus on the long-term. To me, that means not marring the paint (can only correct it so many times, and it`s not all that many) and protecting it. It`s pretty amazing how poorly/well some LSPs do that protecting! If a bird-bomb or bug guts etch your paint, you`ll be sorry, so I`d focus on maximum protection. White looks good as long as it`s clean and shiny and in a few years it`ll be *all* about how well you`ve protected it, not about how swell your chosen wax looks.

    Agree. I`m going the 3 bucket route. Trying the Microfiber Madness Incredipad XL and the CG`s microfiber mitt and plenty of high-end microfiber drying towels. Also picked up one of those Adams Sidekick Blaster for those hard to get areas.
    I *STRONGLY* encourage you to *NOT* do the glaze/sealant/wax combo thing. Just pick one product (which I`d choose based on functional considerations) and put your efforts into getting your wash squared away so you don`t just mar it up. Seriously, washing a vehicle without marring the paint is extremely challenging and all that "combining different products" is, IMO...[bunk].

    Interesting... but I`m going to try the full detail as outlined this time around. In the future I may decide not to glaze or seal. The seal step is using CB Jet Seal - not really a "coating" per say or anything too fancy. The only way to know if my plan works is to give it a try. I`m not using super high priced products but hopefully good products from the likes of Chemical Guys, Griots Garage (bought both their 6" and 3" DA and some of there exterior and interior products), Gyeon, Adams, Meguiars, Zymols, Collinite and now FK1000P.

    Much as I can appreciate Klasse Sealant Glaze ("KSG"), which is a sealant rather than a glaze, I don`t think you`ll like it and most people find it less user-friendly than I do. Note that IME it`s only worth using if you`re doing at least 4 layers (spaced 24 hrs. apart). Though it looks fairly decent on white, I`d choose something else for your Macan. (Not hating on it, I still use it on three specific things on one vehicle.)

    OK, yeah..[REPEAT FK1000P or Collinite 845 suggestions]. IMO you`re best served by something that, with only one or two coats... lasts a long time, protects the paint from etching, cleans up easily, and is reasonably user-friend

    I`ll take you up on that. My plan is if I decide to go with PPF I`ll put the FK1000P on the film by hand. I think this as you say would work really good for the Macan hood that is exposed so much. I`ll mostly likely try one of my other waxes for the rest of the car (got to use them up!)

    Be careful with the Meguiar`s Last Touch as it`s caused LSP issues for others, various LSPs don`t last in combination with it.

    Good to know. My favorite detailer uses it with Collinite 845 all the time, so I know that combo works well.

    I used *gallons* of SpeedShine over the years, and I don`t mean just five or eight, and ended up giving away my last gallon as with all the better alternatives I`d never have used it. Heh heh, nah...not suggesting you toss it, but check out the next paragraph for future consideration

    FWIW, and noting that I still have maybe 6-8 gallons of good Quick Detailers on the shelf, ever since I tried Garry Dean`s Infinite Use Detail Juice ("IUDJ", marketed primarily as a rinseless wash), I`ve done best using *that* as my Quick Detailer/Drying Aid/etc. Incredible to me still, never thought I`d even *like* it as I`m not a fan of Rinseless Washes, but it`s *that* good and 100% compatible with FK1000P. Mixed to QD-strength, it simply does everything better than my other QDs. Cheap too.

    Trim Dresssings- I never touch the stuff. If I want to overkill it, I seal my trim with Ultima Tire & Trim Guard Plus and just maintain it with either the IUDJ or a Spray Wax like Optimum Car Wax (good UV protection! Great for plastics like lenses and trim) or Meguiar`s D156/Ultimate Quik Wax. That Spray Wax approach works pretty well all by itself, but I`d do the UTTG+ (that long-term perspective again). It`s very user-friendly, but I do prep the surfaces with Griot`s Rubber Prep first.

    Only thing I dress is the tires and that`s a personal preference application, not sure what you`d like. Whatever you choose, use it sparingly and buff off any excess with an old MF (microfiber towel) lest you get "sling".

    I have Griots Wheel Cleaner and CG`s Diablo Wheel Cleaner. Zymol, CG Speed Shine Dressing

    And, while it`s easy for us to spend your money ...the last time I had some PPF done (by a member here), it cost* more than $2K, though I can`t recall just how much after all this time (it was that pricey maybe a decade ago, but if you pick the right/wrong guy, ya get what ya pay for...for better or worse).

    I think I`ve picked the right shop, we`ll see....

    Oh, and white is a tricky color to inspect in some ways...be sure you have good Inspection Lighting. That`s good, because minor flaws don`t look as awful as on black, but it`s bad too, because it`s hard to see what`s-what when you want to but, sigh,....we all see the flaws clearly *later* when we thought it was OK.

    Great point, I was concerned about that also. I picked up the Adams Swirl Finder Flashlight. Perfect!


    And finally, some general advice (which you probably don`t need, but anyhow..) : apply Critical Thinking Skills to this Detailing stuff just as you would to some, uhm...serious topic. Don`t worry about overthinking it! E.g., somebody says "[whatever] product is good/bad", OK....WHY?!? Clearly, explicitly, objectively, WHY? Think think think..
    Yea, opinions along are interesting but opinions based on experience is where it`s at!

  8. #23

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    Quote Originally Posted by IXLRS
    My plan is if I decide to go with PPF I`ll put the FK1000P on the film by hand. I think this as you say would work really good for the Macan hood that is exposed so much. I`ll mostly likely try one of my other waxes for the rest of the car (got to use them up!)
    Using the FK1000P and other LSPs (on different panels) oughta make for some interesting comparisons.

    IMO the "high priced products" aren`t always worth the added expense, especially when it comes to detailing chemicals. Other factors almost always make the big differences.

    If anything doesn`t go as planned, don`t hesitate to ask what`s up; most anything imaginable has been dealt with by somebody here.

    Hope you post back about how things go.

    Oh, and when you use that swirl-finder light, try to minimize/eliminate any other light. Point-source illumination in an otherwise dark environment is invariable best for seeing marring, though white can be funny compared to other colors so just see what helps *you* see flaws the best.
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  9. #24
    Detailers Workshop The Driver's Avatar
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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    Quote Originally Posted by IXLRS View Post
    W

    Yellowing - I heard that Xpel is thicker then the Suntec film and not as optically clear (could be BS). The Xpel installer charges over 2K for a full hood, bumpers, mirrors, ect, no thank you.
    This is correct, I have both on my cars. Xpel ultimate is thicker and the orange peel is far more visible. I would personally go with Suntek, I`m not that impressed with the healing properties of Xpel compared to suntek. The funny part is the Suntek is on the daily (Parked outside) and the Xpel is on the weekend toy (Garage kept).
    Rupes 21 MK II, Rupes 15 MK II, Rupes 21, Rupes LHR75e, Rupes Duetto, Rupes Ibrid-L, Rupes LH18ENS, Flex PE-14-2, Dodo Juice V1

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    At $21.99 it will remain a secret to me.

  10. #25
    Wax Waster Ronkh's Avatar
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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    Am I the only one who fell out of my chair laughing at stretch marks ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!
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  11. #26

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    I have a white car with ppf. Had 3m venture shield it was ok. Then 3m scotch guard since 2011. I just replaced it with xpel ultimate. Do it. It protects yoUr paint and looks great. Yes it’s
    Expensive but so it everythig worth while. I’ll get some of my money back on resale on the condition of my paint.
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  12. #27

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    Given the pros & con`s I`m going ahead with the Suntec Ultra film. I was quoted $1,500 for the full hood, mirrors, bumper, door edges, not sure about door cups. I`m going to get a price to do the part along the bottom when you open the door (what`s that called?). He said he would also throw film over the rear hatch (to avoid, marks from loading stuff in the trunk). Plus he`ll give me a 150 off the Suntec CRI tint job also

    The Macan hood is too wide to fit most of the common brand films (this may be also the case with lesser know films). Xpeal discourages stretching the film to fit. Others on the web have said that it affects the self healing properties when the film gets stretched and you can see stretch marks (!). Not sure if this is true. Other have said the stretch marks are barely noticeable you would have to look real hard to find them.
    The shop I like said they can attempt to stretch the film (might be easier with Suntec since it`s thinner than Xpel as long as I`m willing to pay for part of the cost of the wasted film and labor if it proves unsuccessful). I`m inclined to have them moderately stretch the film but still end up with 3 pc`s. Here is an example from a post on macanforums...

    "Here are a few shots provided by a local installer. He stretches the material as much as he can, but stops before stretch marks occur.

    As you can see, as a result of the moderate stretching that he does, the two pieces that must be seamed are smaller than what is shown in the Xpel PDF diagram."

    Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan-wmfk8hp-xl.jpg

    Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan-xxnkvbv-xl.jpg

    Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan-wmfk8hp-xl.jpg

    Here is another example different car same 3 pc full hood...
    Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan-p5xgwq2-x2.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by JSFM35X View Post
    I have a white car with ppf. Had 3m venture shield it was ok. Then 3m scotch guard since 2011. I just replaced it with xpel ultimate. Do it. It protects yoUr paint and looks great. Yes it’s
    Expensive but so it everything worth while. I’ll get some of my money back on resale on the condition of my paint.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #28

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan-sd5d2pq-x2.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #29

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    Took delivery of my Macan yesterday! What a beautiful car. I`m going to start on my detail tomorrow, beginning with a foam bath & iron decontamination.

    Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan-k36gn9r-x2.jpg

    Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan-l3qvr4t-x2.jpg

    Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan-bxn4hsx-x2.jpg
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  15. #30

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    Re: Pro`s & Con`s of PPF on new White Macan

    IXLRS- Congrats on delivery! That *is* one nice looking vehicle all right. I like how all the, uhm....black trim doodads...look like they`ll be easy to keep detailed (compared to, say...the trim on the related Audis).

 

 
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