Coatings vs. Standard LSP`S discussion

[GearHead_1]

Thought I`d throw this out there. Over the past several months I had a chance to detail 2 almost identical 2015 Ford Edge`s, both are Platinum White. I used BlackFire products from begining to end with the exception of the clay and the IronX on both of them. Both were received still in the plastic from the dealer. One is my father`s and one is mine, picked them up about a week apart. On one I used BlackFires Coating and it`s Prep product. On the other one I used BlackFire`s Crystal Seal. Both turned out great and are virtually indistinguishable from each other looks wise.

Washed both of these the past 2 days. 2 months into it and both are holding up well as you might expect. I can`t tell one from the other in how they bead and both are slicker than snot on a door knob. These products were both a pleasure to use. Having been through this process I may actually like using the sealant a bit better. It`s just too easy. Though it won`t last as long as the coating you can literally put it on a prepped vehicle in less than 30 minutes. A little goes a long way and it`s reasonably priced. I won`t mind doing it more frequently because of its ease of use. I`m intersted to see how these look 2 months from now. I`d recommend either of these products to someone who is looking for simple. I`ve become a quite a fan of BF`s products.

[MiVor]

We aren`t true professionals if we use DG here lol.

Well some `professionals` do crappy work...I always do a professional job on my P-ride and joy!

[JSFM35X]

As far as prices go. I paid a pro 800 bucks to apply OC 2.0 on my vehicle in 2012. I supplied All the chemicals and polishes and had the car washed and iron x d before he arrived. The deal I made was he would tech me the basics of coating application. He taught me how to use the nano skin pad. How to break it in. He even showed me some tips with the polisher and tapeing.

It was a great day. I learned enough to coat my own cars after that.

He was with me working for 6 or 7 hours and then we went out for late lunch early dinner in me.

It was a great day and the price was cheap. In my area a 2 step with a coating is no less than 1200 if you go to a legit pro guy with a good rep , insurance and proper tools.

[Nth Degree]

After reading through this whole thread I am reminded why I no longer frequent the forums; page after page with a lot of fluff and off topic.

Coatings have their place but I think they are over-sold. Too often the customers take it as a license to neglect the vehicle, thus the benefits are often mitigated. If the goal of a vehicle is to have optimal appearance then regular detailing with regular proper washing should be sufficient. A vehicle that is neglected and might be given a little extra attention once a year, at most, is probably not going to benefit from a coating as any washes are probably going to be improper as well. A daily driver that is wanted to be kept in the best possible condition and the effort will be put in to do so is a good candidate for a coating.

What you choose to use on your own car is one thing. For a fair analysis we must view it from a customer`s perspective. Most detail customers do not always follow our recommendations for proper care. Even with a coating it can be expected that they will cause swirls, scratches and marring through washing, drying, and general carelessness. How many are going to be disappointed after 12 months?

When it comes to sealants, when the durability is x-y months and the customer waits until z months to return, does it really matter how long the durability of the sealant was? The car has been unprotected and likely needs additional work. The same is true for coatings. Tell them it will last UP TO 2 years and they will wait 3 years and wonder why their car doesn`t look the way they want. Since the interior of the car will need periodic detailing anyway it shouldn`t be a problem to do periodic polishing and apply a sealant.

I think many detailers push coatings due to the reality that many customers are "one and done" types. Many customers tell themselves they will maintain their car but we all know that that doesn`t usually happen. Thus, the detailers want to maximize the sale. It really isn`t different from so many other industries. When I managed a snowboard shop the owner got upset that I missed an opportunity for a sale when a woman came in looking for a particular brand we didn`t carry. After explaining the pros and cons of the line and why we didn`t carry it she said it was a gift and that the recipient requested it so I referred her to another shop that had what she was looking for. About 6 weeks later the woman returned and purchased 4 full packages for her family, about $600-$800 each, stating my honesty and the information I provided previously as her reason to trust that she was getting quality, appropriate equipment and not just what she could be sold. Moral: you can shear a sheep many times but only skin it once. If we, as detailers, are less than impressed with the performance of the coatings, just imagine what the customers are thinking. How long before we are viewed the same way the stealerships are for selling their snake oils?

The way some (not all) of the brands have played games with price increases, exclusivity, contracts/requirements and insufficient support has been more of a turnoff as well.

[boxingfan30]

After reading through this whole thread I am reminded why I no longer frequent the forums; page after page with a lot of fluff and off topic.

Coatings have their place but I think they are over-sold. Too often the customers take it as a license to neglect the vehicle, thus the benefits are often mitigated. If the goal of a vehicle is to have optimal appearance then regular detailing with regular proper washing should be sufficient. A vehicle that is neglected and might be given a little extra attention once a year, at most, is probably not going to benefit from a coating as any washes are probably going to be improper as well. A daily driver that is wanted to be kept in the best possible condition and the effort will be put in to do so is a good candidate for a coating.

What you choose to use on your own car is one thing. For a fair analysis we must view it from a customer`s perspective. Most detail customers do not always follow our recommendations for proper care. Even with a coating it can be expected that they will cause swirls, scratches and marring through washing, drying, and general carelessness. How many are going to be disappointed after 12 months?

When it comes to sealants, when the durability is x-y months and the customer waits until z months to return, does it really matter how long the durability of the sealant was? The car has been unprotected and likely needs additional work. The same is true for coatings. Tell them it will last UP TO 2 years and they will wait 3 years and wonder why their car doesn`t look the way they want. Since the interior of the car will need periodic detailing anyway it shouldn`t be a problem to do periodic polishing and apply a sealant.

I think many detailers push coatings due to the reality that many customers are "one and done" types. Many customers tell themselves they will maintain their car but we all know that that doesn`t usually happen. Thus, the detailers want to maximize the sale. It really isn`t different from so many other industries. When I managed a snowboard shop the owner got upset that I missed an opportunity for a sale when a woman came in looking for a particular brand we didn`t carry. After explaining the pros and cons of the line and why we didn`t carry it she said it was a gift and that the recipient requested it so I referred her to another shop that had what she was looking for. About 6 weeks later the woman returned and purchased 4 full packages for her family, about $600-$800 each, stating my honesty and the information I provided previously as her reason to trust that she was getting quality, appropriate equipment and not just what she could be sold. Moral: you can shear a sheep many times but only skin it once. If we, as detailers, are less than impressed with the performance of the coatings, just imagine what the customers are thinking. How long before we are viewed the same way the stealerships are for selling their snake oils?

The way some (not all) of the brands have played games with price increases, exclusivity, contracts/requirements and insufficient support has been more of a turnoff as well.

Great post!

[boxingfan30]

As far as prices go. I paid a pro 800 bucks to apply OC 2.0 on my vehicle. I supplied All the chemicals and polishes and had the car washed and iron x d before he arrived. The deal I made was he would tech me the basics of coating application. He taught me how to use the nano skin pad. How to break it in. He even showed me some tips with the polisher and tapeing.

It was a great day. I learned enough to coat my own cars after that.

He was with me working for 6 or 7 hours and then we went out for late lunch early dinner in me.

It was a great day and the price was cheap. In my area a 2 step with a coating is no less than 1200 if you go to a legit pro guy with a good rep , insurance and proper tools.

I have people that see my car and ask me to do theirs, not to brag at all, but it`s the way it usually goes for me getting jobs, and I don`t charge a lot because the products themselves aren`t that expensive, I`m also not going to rip anyone off. If you got a day of learning out of it, then its not so bad, but I certainly can`t see myself charging that much money. How many people will say "800.00!! Yeah right"? A lot...if I`m under that by a few hundred, at least I`m more likely to get the job.

[Thomas Dekany]

Wow $800 - $1000. I can buy a lot of Duragloss (sealant) for that kinda money even if I have to apply it two (or three) times a year.



Edit: "A fool and his money are soon parted."

Autopia sure has changed over the years. I would expect a post like yours on a forum dedicated to watches. Not here though. Although in your defense, you are new here, but still, these forums used to be all about what is possible in the detailing world. Not so much about how cheap can we get it done.

Remember that you get a lot for that price. As I said before, it is a steal.

As far as your edit, thank you for disrespecting those clients.

PS: i`d suggest that you save your $$$ - and don`t waste it on an LSP. Many people laugh at us for pampering our cars/trucks and the amount we spend on detailing supplies. I guess it is all relevant.

[Thomas Dekany]

1 Why does it matter what I do for a living? What does that have to do with detailing.

2 I also could care less if I was considered a pro detailer, 3 maybe if I put a cute little authorized detailer sig under my name that would make me a pro. 4 Never did I claim to be a pro, nor could I care what you consider me. I consider you a lot of things, but your childish arrogance tops the list for me...and apparently for a lot of others here as well.

1 - because I wanted to see how you would feel if I as a weekend warrior did what you do for a living and I claimed to be as good as you, just because I did 1% of what you have done.

2 - it seems that you do consider yourself as good as pros. Now that is what "I" would consider childish arrogance.

3 - Thank you for being sarcastic. it shows your maturity. Unfortunately, doing 20 cars will not get you that Signature. You need to prove yourself year after year. You are always welcome to visit, I am happy to show you what I do. Believe me, I have done a few more than 20 corrections in the last 13 years.

4 - Glad you didn`t. You are not a pro. Even if you do pro quality work, what ever you do as your day job is what you would be called a pro at. I also don`t worry much about what you think of me. It is always best to leave the ego at the front door. If most installers have no issues with OC, my conclusion is always the installer. (I realize that THAT must have hurt your feelings, but I was simply pointing out the obvious. Instead of entertaining the idea, you got defensive and claimed that it can not be you) Was the batch faulty? Possible, but that still doesn`t mean that OC isn`t durable. Plus you are inexperienced compared to the pro detailers who post here. So that is also against you.

Look, I have taken well over 50000 pictures in the last 3 years. People tell me all the time that my pictures are amazing. But when a pro looks at them, they can see that I don`t have an artistic bone in my body. It is fine with me. Now would I call myself a pro? How narcissistic would that be of me? Even if I sell some pictures. I am not a pro, I am an enthusiast who loves to take pictures who is a pro detailer.

Once again, producing pro quality work doesn`t make one a pro.

Hope this clears things for you.

[MiVor]

Autopia sure has changed over the years. I would expect a post like yours on a forum dedicated to watches. Not here though. Although in your defense, you are new here, but still, these forums used to be all about what is possible in the detailing world. Not so much about how cheap can we get it done.

Remember that you get a lot for that price. As I said before, it is a steal.

As far as your edit, thank you for disrespecting those clients.

PS: i`d suggest that you save your $$$ - and don`t waste it on an LSP. Many people laugh at us for pampering our cars/trucks and the amount we spend on detailing supplies. I guess it is all relevant.

Young fella, you`re a piece of work. I`m a retired enthusiast. I represent a branch of the Autopian culture that seeks value results rather than huge collections of chemical crap. I`m not swayed by high priced boutique products that perform no better than household cleaners. I won`t pay hundreds of dollars for a detail I can do as well or better myself. And I surely won`t spend $1000 on something I can easily achieve with value products, time and elbow grease.
Come down off your `professional pedestal`. Some of the best athletes in the world are not professionals - they compete in the Olympics.

[Nth Degree]

Young fella, you`re a piece of work. I`m a retired enthusiast. I represent a branch of the Autopian culture that seeks value results rather than huge collections of chemical crap. I`m not swayed by high priced boutique products that perform no better than household cleaners. I won`t pay hundreds of dollars for a detail I can do as well or better myself. And I surely won`t spend $1000 on something I can easily achieve with value products, time and elbow grease.
Come down off your `professional pedestal`. Some of the best athletes in the world are not professionals - they compete in the Olympics.

Look, I have taken well over 50000 pictures in the last 3 years. People tell me all the time that my pictures are amazing. But when a pro looks at them, they can see that I don`t have an artistic bone in my body. It is fine with me. Now would I call myself a pro? How narcissistic would that be of me? Even if I sell some pictures. I am not a pro, I am an enthusiast who loves to take pictures who is a pro detailer.

This used to be true but not so much since they changed the rules about professional athletes competing. I think, though, that you just emphasized his point; a professional is someone who makes a living through that work. I`m sure you are quite happy with the results you can achieve and you might think that you are achieving the same results that a professional does but odds are, just like with Thomas` photography, a professional might look at the results and think otherwise or they could achieve the same or better results in a fraction of the time.

Ferrari doesn`t care that most people can`t or won`t ever buy from them, but KIA would never dream of claiming to produce cars of comparable performance. That doesn`t mean that people who buy Ferraris are wasting their money; just that you would never choose to spend your money on one.

[DBAILEY]

Would you two please just find somewhere to meet and duke it out. Its never ending

[Ronkh]

I am still very interested in synergy hybrid wax...its gotten some really great reviews

GOOD stuff !!!!

[KBzPTGT]

207 posts and all but 50 are childish

[Ronkh]

207 posts and all but 50 are childish

only 50 ??

[Angus]

only 50 ??

And that`s not counting the really bad posts the mods have already deleted.