Coatings vs. Standard LSP`S discussion

[boxingfan30]

Ok, so I`m bouncing back and forth between using another coating on my GTI, or if I should go back to using a sealant/wax.

The issues however make this a difficult decision for many people who live in an area with bad water (like the town water here), high heat that might make a standard LSP not last very long, overall time to work on their car(s), reoccurring injuries (again like me, bad back, knees, shoulder,)

I have used coatings on my last 2 cars, which included opticoat, 22ple, and then cquartz uk.

For a long time opticoats many attributes were that "nothing sticks to it", that turned out to not be the case, and after a while, my finish started to just look less than stellar, though it looked good. I recall having some grass clippings that were stuck to my paint, they didn`t wash right off under the water pressure, but rather had to be washed off like normal car. The lack of slickness was also a pretty big letdown.

When I had gotten the time, I polished the OC where 22ple would soon replace it...which was the whole car. The paint of course looked brand new and sparkled like freshly polished paint should, the 22ple was put on and the looks were MUCH more improved. In fairness, I can not say much about spotting or any dulling since I sold the car not long after that.

Once I got my GTI, I debated on the 22ple, but because of price, went with CQUK. Again, I polished the paint for hours, got the look I wanted and began the extremely long and ridiculous process of applying the CQ. Going up and down and back and forth, ensuring the paint was fully covered, it was the most difficult coating out of the 3 to apply. Finally I got the car done. It did look great, it added some darkness to the already black paint, and at the beginning it was excellent at water and dirt shedding. The problem then came that I did not keep reload on the car long enough I guess. It said about 4 months it would last. My first application with reload was frustrating, the small streaks where areas were just a little darker than others, seemed to take so much rubbing and buffing that my arm felt like it would fall off. After all of the the paint was slick, very slick...but 4 months was not close to how long it lasted, and washing the car about once a week with Adams car shampoo showed it quickly lost its slickness and water shedding was going downhill. After the spotting showed up, I tried a cleaner wax, tried AIOs and neither would remove the spotting fully. I wound up polishing the coating with a blue pad and sf4500 to remove them, but some were deep enough, they are still there now, I suppose a 2000 grit with orange pad will be needed.

This is not meant as a crack at carpro, though I personally won`t use them again, but at coatings in general and my love hate relationship with them now.

I recall a member on here a long time ago saying that those of us who make a living at this will lose money because people won`t need to come back. Now many of us, (myself included) are finding that we aren`t losing money from a lack of business, we are losing money at trying to figure out just what the hell keeps thsee spots and other issues off these finishes. Reliad, vs1, take your pick of which "topper" is supposed to create magic to a coating that is already supposed to be magic and hydrothis or hydrothat...spot removers, etc. It seems the coating business is all about coating the coating.

Now, I`ll admit that the marring resistance is excellent with all of the above mentioned coatings, and I`m sure that with each and every new coating that comes out they will all have that, and for some, that`s a decent trade off to have the cost of possible repolishing, or applications of their choice of coating or having a lot of sandblasted or wash induced marring.

My rethinking of using just more standard LSP`s is the fact that a GOOD quality LSP will keep water spots from etching into the paint. Some will disagree with this, and that`s ok. I have had powerlock on my car and had bird droppings that were on there for several days...never did they make it to the paint.

I had a 370z about 3 cars ago, and it was in my garage when my 130lb.Presa Canario got out of his cage and had jumped all over the car, almost in tears as every panel had multiple claw marks on it, I just started to see what I could do. To my surprise, the marks were are largely wiping right off. I had 2 coats of 915 on the paint, of course the slickness is what helped to keep the actual paint from being damaged. We all also know that a good, slick car shampoo is what greatly improves the possibility of not getting wash marring, along with proper techniques.

In general, the auto paint care industry makes a killing off of their fancy bottles, boxes, special BS wooden containers that hold 1k waxes that aren`t worth the lacquer that went onto the boxes they hold. Yet, many of us fall for it anyway. Why? It`s our hobby, our livelyhood, or we just are shopaholic that can`t say no to trying something new.

In the end, isn`t every coating basically going to do the same thing? Isn`t every wax going to look great for 2 or 3 months and then need to be redone?

So what are your thoughts? What do you prefer? Why?

[groebuck]

I used 22ple on my Raven Black ATS - like you it was great for a while but seemed to loose that WOW after a winter (granted it was a bad winter). I am now on my brand spanking new Buick Regal T/AWD (I so wanted the GS but I HATED the seats in that..felt like I was falling out)..it is diamond white tri coat and I can`t decide if I take the 22ple plunge again or go glaze/sealant ...I am going to go white diamond/ex-p and see how that fairs over the winter.

[Accumulator]

boxingfan30- That`s a great dog breed you have there! (Now teach him how to behave around vehicles )

I guess most regulars here can already guess my response, but here we go again...

While you`d sacrifice the marring protection of a coating (never been an issue for me; I don`t polish for years on end despite being very particular about marring), I`d just [INSERT Accumulator`s usual FK1000P plug HERE]. IME it resists etching great, cleans up easily (even with just a pressure washer rinse if not too dirty), and lasts a lot longer than 2-3 months. User-friendly too, I`ve never had any issues with it at all except for when I overdid the layering (which wasn`t necessary anyhow).

Not hating on coatings, I do like them for wheels and some undercarriage bits.

[tropicsteve]

once the polishing is done, I still like and use sealant/wax combos. I`m fortunate to have a garage, so with spray waxes after washes, my finish stays decent for a good long while and I just like the look better.

[silverfox]

I`ve gone from coatings on paint back to super sealants which can go a year easily. The etching and spotting issues I saw with coatings drove me crazy, and frankly coatings imo are not everything the marketing gods tell us. I have no problem sealing my paint once a year. I mean...seriously. Besides, coatings etch, spot, scratch and mar just as easily as clear coat...and usually need correction long before their theoretical laboratory longevity claims. After 3 years trying many coatings, I`ve come to the conclusion they are best used for wheels, lights, trim, and tires.

For under $20...FK 1000p, Duragloss 105 can`t be beat. More expensive super sealants are Pinnacle synergy, blackfire black ice, dodo juice supernatural nano, sonax polymer net shield... and there are other sealants that can go almost a year topped with a collinite. Even prima hydromax spray sealant can easily go 5 months and I live in snow and salt country. I use a commercial touchless car wash in winter and never had any issues with the sealants I`ve mentioned holding up.

[Mike lambert]

After finding both Gyeon and Kamikaze I have had no issues with spotting or issues with streaking when I use cure. I also use kamikaze overcoat with no issues. I put Kamikaze infinity wax on my Inlaws car and it has lasted a year outside. If you like maintaining your car stay with a sealant. My coating clients want durability as well as ease of maintenance. I personally will not use waxes on any of my cars.

[boxingfan30]

I`ve gone from coatings on paint back to super sealants which can go a year easily. The etching and spotting issues I saw with coatings drove me crazy, and frankly coatings imo are not everything the marketing gods tell us. I have no problem sealing my paint once a year. I mean...seriously. Besides, coatings etch, spot, scratch and mar just as easily as clear coat...and usually need correction long before their theoretical laboratory longevity claims. After 3 years trying many coatings, I`ve come to the conclusion they are best used for wheels, lights, trim, and tires.

For under $20...FK 1000p, Duragloss 105 can`t be beat. More expensive super sealants are Pinnacle synergy, blackfire black ice, dodo juice supernatural nano, sonax polymer net shield... and there are other sealants that can go almost a year topped with a collinite. Even prima hydromax spray sealant can easily go 5 months and I live in snow and salt country. I use a commercial touchless car wash in winter and never had any issues with the sealants I`ve mentioned holding up.

I`ve heard that the supernatural is quite difficult to apply. Aside from that, which super sealants are you getting to last a year?

[rlmccarty2000]

I use PBL coating and then top it with whatever wax I feel like. The coating gives me the illusion of a layer of protection and the wax gives me the look and extra protection I want. It`s kind of like wearing a belt with suspenders, except looks better. I will always put wax on my cars.

[boxingfan30]

After finding both Gyeon and Kamikaze I have had no issues with spotting or issues with streaking when I use cure. I also use kamikaze overcoat with no issues. I put Kamikaze infinity wax on my Inlaws car and it has lasted a year outside. If you like maintaining your car stay with a sealant. My coating clients want durability as well as ease of maintenance. I personally will not use waxes on any of my cars.

Part of my point is that you still have to use some kind of topper on even a coating, so why not save money and just use a sealant? I looked at their "CANcoat " and even though it looks and sounds good, it still needs to be topped. That`s the part I`m talking about. Why not make a coating that doesn`t need some sort of overcoat?

[Ronkh]

Part of my point is that you still have to use some kind of topper on even a coating, so why not save money and just use a sealant? I looked at their "CANcoat " and even though it looks and sounds good, it still needs to be topped. That`s the part I`m talking about. Why not make a coating that doesn`t need some sort of overcoat?

Ever like you lady to wear lip stick?

[boxingfan30]

Ever like you lady to wear lip stick?

Well, I see where you`re going, though no I don`t like her too, she doesn`t need it. Topping things is ok, but a coating imo should be a standalone solution to those who don`t want to have to do anything to their cars other than wash and dry.

[JSFM35X]

I do not like to have to top anything.

My GTECH EXO last a good while 18-24 months with nothing more than a wash. At 18 months I did a APC wash (after winter0 and it helped revive the beading. At 24 Months it was time to polish and reapply. I decided to use Viking coat.

I have EXO , 22PL and Gloss Coat all running side by side.

I will keep you posted.

Topping is for guys who like to play with their finishes or its compensating for a inferior product (IMHO) or its the manufacturers saying, sales have tailed off bc this stuff lasts too long and we can`t charge more, lets spin some marketing mumbo jumbo and sell some juice and make some $.

[Ronkh]

I do not like to have to top anything.

My GTECH EXO last a good while 18-24 months with nothing more than a wash. At 18 months I did a APC wash (after winter0 and it helped revive the beading. At 24 Months it was time to polish and reapply. I decided to use Viking coat.

I have EXO , 22PL and Gloss Coat all running side by side.

I will keep you posted.

Topping is for guys who like to play with their finishes or its compensating for a inferior product (IMHO) or its the manufacturers saying, sales have tailed off bc this stuff lasts too long and we can`t charge more, lets spin some marketing mumbo jumbo and sell some juice and make some $.

Well, I see where you`re going, though no I don`t like her too, she doesn`t need it. Topping things is ok, but a coating imo should be a standalone solution to those who don`t want to have to do anything to their cars other than wash and dry.

Actually I was being smart ......

But I agree, coatings should be a stand alone process unless someone WANTS to play.

If I recall correctly, cq was the starting of the main stream coatings, and it was "needs nothing", then it was, well if you want, use this (reload), then it was well use this.......

[boxingfan30]

Actually I was being smart ......

But I agree, coatings should be a stand alone process unless someone WANTS to play.

If I recall correctly, cq was the starting of the main stream coatings, and it was "needs nothing", then it was, well if you want, use this (reload), then it was well use this.......

Exactly! OC was the same way, I was on here before and was talking about losing its beading ability, a few mentioned an APC or dawn wash, but that never solved the issue.

I`m curious how long your waxes last over the PBL coating?

[Mike lambert]

I use both cure and overcoat to provide protection against spotting for the first week, I advise my clients to use it as they like if they have a need for a slick wax type feeling. We are seeing cars in here 8 months with Gyeon that have had no topper and they still behave as they did the first month. They have only been washed and dried and the clients love the minimal care needed.