Rinseless washing as safe as traditional bucket?

[RaskyR1]

I`m not sure if I would say anything is better then the other, I would say that a polymer combined with a surfactant (assuming the polymers are in a water based emulsion) is going to deliver more polymers to the surface and provide the best lubrication.

Even traditional car soaps can be formulated with polymers, surfactants, or both.

The flushing action of the encapsulated dirt is going to provide more of a barrier to abrasion then wiping the encapsulated dirt against the surface (washing vs. rinseless).

But what about when towel drying (assuming there is no dirt left on the surface what-so-ever). The polymers in the left over rinseless wash are going to provide a greater level of protection compared to a surfactant rich soap that has been rinsed away (leaving behind only water which isn`t very slick).

Insert quick detailer drying aid!

[Todd@RUPES]

Hmmm your not making this easy are you??? I think then reading the label of your soap of choice for a traditional wash is very important. Some people even add ONR to their wash water just for this reason to boost the polymer content. Using a quality shampoo such as Blackfire Gloss Shampoo should should all but alleviate this concern to add polymers.

Not trying to make anything difficult, just making sure that I am specific in what I say.

Adding a rinseless wash to a soap is a good idea IMO, although it can kill the suds of the soap. The sud-sing effect isn`t too important to the functionality of the soap anyways, but some people love their suds.

BLACKFIRE Gloss Shampoo is rich in both high quality surfactants and polymers and provides a lot of lubricity.

[Todd@RUPES]

Insert quick detailer drying aid!

Exactly!

[BobbyG]

I guess my hypothesis is if you take the same vehicle, rinse in down well, then proceed to do either a traditional 2 bucket or a rinseless wash (washing while still damp from the rinse) then they will always be equally safe no matter the condition of the vehicle?

Agree or disagree?

If you disagree, what is the extra safety done in a traditional 2 bucket without about foam down, no foaming while wiping, no prsssure washer, no modified 16 bucket method, 16 mitts or 36 towels, etc) and no radio controlled helicopters (inside joke if you know the reference) or what makes rinseless less safe,

Hi Al,

Power washers are great but lets look at this from the two methods you suggest.

I`m of the opinion that the traditional two bucket method has less chance of imparting surface defects than a rinseless wash.

The traditional soap and water solution seems to provide better lubricity than a rinseless wash. The wash media is generally saturated with the foamy solution and glides across the surface much smoother than that of the rinseless wash. Rinseless wash instructions even suggest adding an ounce our two to your conventional wash to add lubricity, which does make sense.

Rinseless washes should incorporate the second bucket as well. Rinsing the wash media when using a rinseless wash is actually more important to avoid reintroducing dirt and debris that`s just been removed.

I`ve found it easier to unknowingly impart damage to the finish because of pressing too hard or have the surface "too dirty".

If I have a bucket of clean rinseless wash and adding dirt and debris by rinsing the wash media in it doesn`t make much sense hence the reason to use the two bucket method for the rinseless as well...

I don`t believe the two are equal but the rinseless wash does have it`s place but under certain conditions..

[mjlinane]

I use 2 buckets + 2 grit guards + a prerinse for rinseless washing, too. I believe this significantly reduces the risk of marring with rinseless.

[Bunky]

Insert quick detailer drying aid!

I guess this would be a plus for rinseless since it has a built in drying aid.

[rzatch]

Therefore is it the pre-rinse with a hose that really makes them equal? That is, if I hose down the car first like I would for a traditional wash it would be as safe?



I guess my hypothesis is if you take the same vehicle, rinse in down well, then proceed to do either a traditional 2 bucket or a rinseless wash (washing while still damp from the rinse) then they will always be equally safe no matter the condition of the vehicle?
,

I use 2 buckets + 2 grit guards + a prerinse for rinseless washing, too. I believe this significantly reduces the risk of marring with rinseless.

Your doing what the OP suggest makes the difference so in essence the only thing your saving on is the final rinse part of a traditional wash. Not saying I don`t agree with doing it but your kind of defeating the concept of the waterless wash or rinseless wash.

And a quote from Todd on the use of waterless wash products.

Waterless Wash products are limited. If you use them on a heavily soiled car you will likely overide the abillity of the product to remove dirt safely. BLACKFIRE Wet Diamond Waterless Spray is no exception, it does have it`s limit.

[Bunky]

From what I have seen so far, the view is that a soap offers more lubricity but the key characteristic is that the suspended dirt (what is not picked up in the mitt) is rinsed away as opposed to being removed through the wiping process of a rinseless wash.

So it seems many would say if you used a rinseless product exactly like the traditional soap, they do not believe it is as safe.

[rzatch]

I agree Bunky. I think you hit the nail on the head with the pre-rinse being the key. I know around here in the winter there is a lot of sand and junk on the roads. It would take a lot of polymer to encapsulate that with just a wowo.

[mjlinane]

Your doing what the OP suggest makes the difference so in essence the only thing your saving on is the final rinse part of a traditional wash.

I wasn`t clear: pre-rinse in this context was with a the rinseless product at wash strength from a garden sprayer. Pre-soak would have been a better choice of words.

Now, if there is caked on dirt, the pressure washer definitely comes out. And, if the pressure washer is out, I do a traditional wash (I`ve got gallons and gallons of different shampoos).

Earlier in the thread I`ve stated my ideas on the matter. My CG HFEW review also has my thoughts on handling dirtier cars (the dirtier the car, the smaller the working area).

I am not disagreeing with any of you. I happen to like rinseless (and even waterless) - when I think it is appropriate for the dirt level.

[umi000]

If I need to, I do a pre-rinse, then proceed with a rinseless wash - with the gritty particles off the paint because of the pre-rinse, leaving behind just road film, I feel that a rinseless wash is just a safe as a conventional one, and I find that it takes less effort for me to do a rinseless.

[Mr. Gloss]

This is a good, informative discussion but it abandons the sole purpose of the rinseless wash, no hose, no wasted water.

You can conserve water and still get your vehicle beautifully clean!

You lose your gold star for environment protection when you power wash or use a car wash to pre-rinse. Read the marketing hype for more claims.

I gleaned from the discussion that the conventional wash, which is all I do, is the best wash for a car that leaves the garage everyday or sits outdoors all year long.

Bobby and Bunky lead everyone right back to the expected conclusion: A conventional wash is the safest, surest way to avoid paint damage when washing any vehicle (except a garage queen). Thank you. Now I know I`m doing it the right way.

Aside from that, adding a rinseless wash to conventional wash may help, but it adds to the cost of the wash and I`m willing to say you`ll not notice a difference.

Removing a few specks of dust in Florida is a far cry from the salt brine in Cleveland.

[CT3]

The only thing I use these for is in the door jambs, trunk, under hood etc. What I`d really like to try is a foam cannon. I`m still behind the times.

[rzatch]

Yes mjlinane a pre-soak is a little different than a pre-rinse, no problems, i get what your saying now. I agree Mr. Gloss i still think the traditional wash is the safest way to go when you have the option.

[mjlinane]

Also think needs to be said, if you, like me, live in an area where we are under perpetual water restrictions, you need to learn how to rinseless correctly and resign yourself to washing more frequently - before the car gets too dirty to safely wash this way.