Tie Browning

[Ron Ketcham]

These polymer coatings used for paint protection are much different than say a "bottle" or "part", even though of polymer chemistry construction.



There is a "coating" produced by these sort of products which, as it goes through the curing process, IE, release/evaporation of the carrier (solvent/water) creates a micro thin layer over the paint substrate and cationaicly bonds to the surface. (one of the reasons it is not a good idea to have used a product for polishing that contains any oils which may detire this bonding process.)



Most product lines of quality are designed to be used as a "system" in order to assure the ability of the polymers to cure and bond.









:bounce

[bigbobv]

Man, my head hurts. Wasn`t the original question whether it was best to allow Klassse to "cure" longer before adding additional coats or laying with wax?



What was the answer to that question anyway?

[DETAILKING]

and bonded to the steel at very high temperatures...around 700 °F. This is why it is useless as an additive in auto sealants.

[DETAILKING]

applying additional coats or else it can`t layer. The solvents will just soften up the sealant and you will only accomplish a reapplication. KLASSE strips KLASSE if you will...at least until it is fully cured...and who knows how long that is....SNAKE? Are you EVER going to post that information you promised, when you talked to BOB?!

[Ron Ketcham]

per DuPont tech bulletin XG-50 issued in the early 80`s, this is a shortened, but understandable version of the bulletin



The resin in liquid form must be applied to the surface with a minimum application thickness of 2 mil wet.



The entire part must then be heated to 250 F to release the carrier solvents. This temperature must be maintained for a minimum of 5 to 10 minutes.



Once the solvents have been evaporated from the Teflon resin, the heat is to be increased to 640 F and maintained for 30 to 45 minutes in order to create "sintering" of the Teflon material.



Like to see that done to a car??



Talk about having a "hot" car, it would be on "fire".





:bounce

[dvd]

It seems to be that you are saying that it would be best to let the AIO cure for a week to insure complete cross linking ?



I`m not asking for your opinion on Klasse, just your basic experience with polymers. ( I hesitate to think what happens to the equation if it rains on my car during the seven days).



Bob

[Ron Ketcham]

No, you don`t have to wait a week. We were just discussing how, dependant upon the resins and other factors that normal "full" cure takes about a week, but not to worry, we have our warrantied sealant running around on cars that didn`t get but 24 hours and no claims.



There are too many variables to ascertain just how much "cure" one gets in 24 hours, due to humidity, porosity of the paint, temperature, any product applied be for application, etc, etc.



You are fine putting it on, letting it set and if it gets rain on it in a day or so, you still have plenty of protection.



Just don`t put it on and then wash the vehicle right away.



OK??



:up

[HRC]

I`m not sure crosslinking would even take a week...If Klasse really cures, the crosslinking might end in 24 hrs. and then the solvent would take the rest of a week to evaporate for maximum hardness. And rain might not even effect the evaporation after the crosslinking...for instance we cure PMMA in water baths...granted they are in clamps that pressurize and probably keep all the water out, but it really might not mater.

[Ron Ketcham]

Want to see a fresh clear go bad, just flush it with water within 24 hours of application.



That is why many clears that have been applied by a bodyshop go bad. They "wet sanded" them before a 24 hour cure had taken place. This flushing stops the crosslinking of the resin system.



The solvents do continue to evaporate for sometime, but the majority are gone in 24 hours.



As the final small percentage evaporates the final and maximum curing takes place.



This may be as little as 10% or as high as 20% additional curing.



Each who has applied a quality polymer/acrylic sealant has surely noticed how it gains in it`s gloss factor a day or so after the inital wipeoff.





:bounce

[HRC]

Without anymore speculation...wouldn`t you say you had it right all along...24hrs...keep dry, reapply in a week, keeping it dry the whole week if possible. All of this thread seems to be coming to the same conclusion that was already there...at least we know it was the right one.:up

[HRC]

Not all polymers would be effected by water...granted the Klasse could be and probably is, since it is said to not get it wet right away. But some polymers are benefited by water because the oxygen speeds up the cure. And with most polymers, 80-90 percent of the cure would probably be done as soon as it`s dry. But if the cure is initiated by air, the water would all but stop the cure, just on the fact that it blocks the air...Ron, this all depends on the polymer, and I think the old theory still holds.

[Ron Ketcham]

Read the instructions on any quality sealant and see if any state in those instructions to apply water to the product in order to attain a cure.



Well, do you know of any?



Does anyone?



We are not talking bottles or parts here, but a liquified coating that is spread over another coating in order to create a higher level of gloss and, hopefully, some anti-corossive qualities.



That is the key.



:bounce

[imported_RIC]

The only products that I have seen that mention ANYTHING about "curing"...besides Zaino...are Liquid Glass and Finish First. Liquid Glass talks about "baking in the sun for 4 or more hours before applying another coat". Finish First says,"Allow FINISH FIRST to "cure" a minimum of 1 hour to overnight before removing. This important step allows for maximum durability as will as filling of fine scratches and swirl marks. During the curing phase, there is no such thing as "too long", but we recommend a minimum of 1 hour." This is confusing; seems like they are mixing up curing and drying.



No products that I have seen instruct to spray with water to "make it cure" and no products have warnings that exposure to water within the first 24 hours will have any ill effects regarding bonding.



If moisture causes problems than I am in big trouble because it is a rarity that I don`t come out and find my car covered with a layer of dew in the morning.



In the old days when I used IHG and Gliptone Wet wax I would sometimes spray ice water over a freshly applied wax layer...i.e sort of like using a quick detailer now...(at that time there were no quick detail products on the market). It was supposed to increase the shine and appeared to.

[pingiii]

Geez,.............and all I wanted to do is keep the salt of my truck!

So the co-polymers will continue to link till a chainstopper is added, correct? And the solvent is only used to liquify the solids to a liquid state so we can apply it to the finish of our vehicle, correct?

Then if we then apply something on the polymer after it`s on the vehicle, will that start the cross linking again?

In other words is there something that we can apply to cure or harden the polymer all the way through, after it`s on the vehicle, or will the bottom of the coating still remain semi-liquid?

Or will just air drying do the same for the polymer, that is, to harden it all the way through?

And what would happen if we apply say a carnauba to the top of the polymer? Does that slow the curing process, does it affect it at all, or does it protect the polymer?



Very interesting thread! Enjoy!

[YoSteve]

Okay, I have the solution.



Apply your coat of Klasse SG, then log on and read this thread, really try to read it, then buff it off.