liability contracts

**karwaxer** · 09-09-2006, 05:44 PM

Like BBlachwrx I do alot of work at office buildings. I had a cust. who I did a walk around on her mini van and pointed out any potential problems. Finished the job went to her office to show her the finished job and was told " dont worry you came highly recommended by so and so Im sure Ill love it" so I left. the next day I get a phone call saying that I damaged the moulding on her drivers door. She said a big piece was broken off so I go out and look at it and it was damaged ( not by me ), luckily I went to where I parked it when I was done and there was the piece on the ground and there was a truck parked next to the spot with her color paint on the bottom of its pass. door. So now I insist that the cust. comes and walks the car with me after I am done using this as my reason why I want them to look at the car.This time it did not cost me anything but an extra trip to my cust. office, but next time who knows always insist on a walk around.

**Jngrbrdman** · 09-16-2006, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by BLACKWRX

Do you guys make your customers sign a some sort of a liability contract before you start detailing there car in case something happens?

That is what insurance is for. If you wreck their car then your insurance will cover the damage. That is only if you carry insurance for this kind of thing, of course. If you are running a business where you are detailing hundreds of cars a year then it is more than a hobby and you really should carry insurance.

Nobody is going to sign something that is basically telling them that the person detailing their car could burn the paint off and back it into a wall and there is nothing you can do about it. Nobody waives that kind of stuff. I am drafting a service agreement that will state that I am not responsible for stuff that they leave in the car, but I`m not going to say that I am not responsible for any damage I cause. I need to cover my butt in case they accuse me of stealing the diamond ring in their glove box, but that is the only reason I would ever put something like that on a service agreement.

**Maxima Lover** · 09-17-2006, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by Jngrbrdman

That is what insurance is for. If you wreck their car then your insurance will cover the damage. That is only if you carry insurance for this kind of thing, of course. If you are running a business where you are detailing hundreds of cars a year then it is more than a hobby and you really should carry insurance.

Nobody is going to sign something that is basically telling them that the person detailing their car could burn the paint off and back it into a wall and there is nothing you can do about it. Nobody waives that kind of stuff. I am drafting a service agreement that will state that I am not responsible for stuff that they leave in the car, but I`m not going to say that I am not responsible for any damage I cause. I need to cover my butt in case they accuse me of stealing the diamond ring in their glove box, but that is the only reason I would ever put something like that on a service agreement.

Just because you have them sign a waiver that covers a broad list of things doesn`t mean you won`t be responsible if something happens. Lots of companies have you sign waivers that wouldn`t cover their @ss although they would want you to think it does. Same goes with sports events. Sure it says you can`t sue them for any reason on the back of the ticket, but that isn`t always the case. If a "reasonable person" would say that you made an error and caused damage that could have been avoided, the customer will have the right to sue you. I`m learning all about business lawsuits in my business law class right now.

**Jngrbrdman** · 09-17-2006, 11:59 AM

If you have ever read the actual definition of `a reasonable person` then it would tell you that a reasonable person would never leave something valuable in their car when a stranger details it. It wouldn`t be sensible to do something like that. What I was saying is that you put in your service agreement that you aren`t responsible for objects they leave in the car. You can`t waive liability for damage to their vehicle, but you can cover you butt if something turns up missing.

**Maxima Lover** · 09-17-2006, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Jngrbrdman

If you have ever read the actual definition of `a reasonable person` then it would tell you that a reasonable person would never leave something valuable in their car when a stranger details it. It wouldn`t be sensible to do something like that. What I was saying is that you put in your service agreement that you aren`t responsible for objects they leave in the car. You can`t waive liability for damage to their vehicle, but you can cover you butt if something turns up missing.

Sorry Jngr, I misread your post. I thought you were saying you were going to make it cover any damages, but you actually said the opposite. I`ve got to stop posting so late. LOL

As far as vaulables, the waiver they sign should cover you unless they can prove you took the items. About the only way to prove this would be a video.

**Jngrbrdman** · 09-17-2006, 05:54 PM

No worries.

I figured you were either quoting mine because you agreed with it, or you maybe just misread it. It sounded like we were on the same page.

**joe.p** · 09-17-2006, 07:55 PM

When having a liability contract I`m guessing this is the same as insurance? If one was detailing and damaged a vehicle would you go ahead and make a insurance claim,pay out of pocket or try and negotiate some sort of deal?

I`m very interested since i detail a few cars here and there damaging ones vehicle is always in the back of my mind and since i do detail once in a while i have no insurance. I do try to walk through the vehicle with the client find out if he has any concerns and always take pics of prior damage

**Maxima Lover** · 09-17-2006, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by joe.p

When having a liability contract I`m guessing this is the same as insurance?

No. The liability contract is what you would have the customer sign to release you from some liability. As Jngrbrdman said, you would include things like property inside of the car and not damage you cause.

Originally Posted by joe.p

If one was detailing and damaged a vehicle would you go ahead and make a insurance claim,pay out of pocket or try and negotiate some sort of deal?

Depends on the situation. If it was little enough, paying it out of pocket would save you money in the long run. If you crash a customer`s BMW into a Lexus, you might want to run that through insurance.

Originally Posted by joe.p

I`m very interested since i detail a few cars here and there damaging ones vehicle is always in the back of my mind and since i do detail once in a while i have no insurance. I do try to walk through the vehicle with the client find out if he has any concerns and always take pics of prior damage

Taking pictures is a good idea. Some people will honestly think you damaged there car when all you did was clean it enough to see the problem. If your doing this full time as your job, having insurance is most likely worth the cost.

**Jngrbrdman** · 09-17-2006, 11:05 PM

There are a lot of things that you can`t take pictures of though. I was helping a guy detail his car and he ended up spraying degreaser all over his alternator. It took about 30 minutes, but as we were looking at his handiwork, the alternator burst into flames. Insurance would cover something like that. It is something that before and after pictures wouldn`t really help you with since the damage was caused because of the detail. I`ve had damage on cars become revealed becaues of the detail as well. Once car I did recently had cracks all over the paint that were concealed by the oxidation. Once I got that cleared off, the damage became visible.

In the end I think having a good service agreement that the customer signs is something that can protect you. Do a walk around on the car with the owner before you get started and that could solve some problems too. Rental car companies have a good checklist that they go through when they give you a car and when you bring it back. Something like that could really protect you. I am not driving their vehicles, so I don`t really need to do something like that yet. I have them pull the car in and out of the garage when necessary so that my liability is only in what I am doing with the paint and what could be on the interior of the car. If I uncover cracks in the paint then I`m fairly sure an expert would be able to tell them that there is no way I caused them, so I`m not worried about that kind of thing. If I cause damage then I`ll have to pay for it. I guess I better make sure I don`t cause any damage, eh?

**Coastal Eddie** · 09-18-2006, 08:27 PM

I wouldn`t be allowed on the lots I work in without 2 million business liability (with a garage keepers attachment), 1 million liability on my trucks, and workmans comp insurance to cover my employees.

Maybe all the service agreements you speak of are a viable alternative, but in any format they wouldn`t get me through the gate!!

**Jngrbrdman** · 09-18-2006, 10:52 PM

Service agreements only cover liability for items inside the car. They never cover liability for damage to the vehicle.

**mgm2003** · 09-19-2006, 10:59 AM

Interesting discussion.

I`ve talked to a few folks that have experienced follow up calls a week or more after work was performed. This might happen 5% (or less) of the time -so it`s the exception not the rule. It`s difficult to `read` people over the internet or during a brief phone call when scheduling work, and sometimes you run into customers that have expectations that aren`t in line with your services or price points.

To set clear expectations (and also offer a professional touch), I think it`s a good idea to perform a walk around before and after a detail.

It might also be a good idea to offer your customer a checklist of services provided during the `after` walk around -similar to what you get when you have a car repair.

Upon completion of the final walk around and checklist review, I would consider payment as a `satisfied` customer. At the same time, a customer might point out something that you missed which can be addressed before you leave the job site.

**3Dog** · 09-19-2006, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Coastal Eddie

I wouldn`t be allowed on the lots I work in without 2 million business liability (with a garage keepers attachment), 1 million liability on my trucks, and workmans comp insurance to cover my employees.

Maybe all the service agreements you speak of are a viable alternative, but in any format they wouldn`t get me through the gate!!

Well said.
I dont know of any state that allows you to operate a business..ie you charged a fee for your service...without insurance. Saying you are part-time or just do this as a hobby (and get paid) does not negaite the law.
By the way, you general liability will now have terriorts insurance tacked onto it. Ane it really blew when they came up with the million dollar on vehicles.

**Coastal Eddie** · 09-19-2006, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by 3Dog

Well said.
I dont know of any state that allows you to operate a business..ie you charged a fee for your service...without insurance. Saying you are part-time or just do this as a hobby (and get paid) does not negaite the law.
By the way, you general liability will now have terriorts insurance tacked onto it. Ane it really blew when they came up with the million dollar on vehicles.

2 million is actually the norm on vehicles out here now, and has been for awhile. I got pretty pissed when that change happened and have ignored it for a couple of years. So far I`ve not been challenged. You can actually buy 1 million in Business Liability insurance for less than it costs for the big commercial liability on your trucks.

**kbbiii** · 09-19-2006, 06:02 PM

I am so glad that someone brought up the FACT about insurance. I too cannot get on the properties that I go to without insurance. I pay $96 a month for it and for the past 2 years have not had to use it but if for some reason I damage a vehicle I in no way want to pay out of my pocket.

What confuses me is that if you do detail on a professional level (get paid for it) then I feel you must have insurance. It makes it hard for the guys that are doing this for a living if the ones that don`t have insurance damage a vehicle and can`t afford to have that vehicle fixed. It makes it look bad for the industry. This is obviously just my opinion but I take my business serious and hope that the other professional do as well.

Kenny