What is vibration and why does it matter?

**Todd@RUPES** · 07-20-2015, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by JSFM35X

Todd

Been to the Mr up North collection lately? Were ready for another epic post.

Negotiations are underway lol. If I can find time may return this spring; I`ve been invited. It`s hard to go though, honestly. I don`t have enough time with my son as is, and I cannot stomach being away from him for two weeks. Maybe I`ll get him to come up and put him to work. Did I mention of the benefits of the BigFoot system is that it allows users of any experience to achieve great results :-)

**JSFM35X** · 07-20-2015, 09:12 PM

He is probably the right height to clean wheels and rockers no problems.

Originally Posted by Todd@RUPES

Negotiations are underway lol. If I can find time may return this spring; I`ve been invited. It`s hard to go though, honestly. I don`t have enough time with my son as is, and I cannot stomach being away from him for two weeks. Maybe I`ll get him to come up and put him to work. Did I mention of the benefits of the BigFoot system is that it allows users of any experience to achieve great results :-)

**ShawnF350** · 07-20-2015, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by number1show

Had I known that the Rupes vibrate much less than the G21, I would have gone that route with no hesitation. It really is a big deal.

Are you saying you own a G21 & it vibrates a bit?

I`m wondering how much smoother Rupes 21 might be with the backing plate and Pads it was designed for.

I`m running the smaller backing plate and Pads.

**Todd@RUPES** · 07-20-2015, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by ShawnF350

I`m wondering how much smoother Rupes 21 might be with the backing plate and Pads it was designed for.

I`m running the smaller backing plate and Pads.

I spent a lot of time on the road, teaching our distribution on the RUPES system. I almost always use the system in the manner it was developed (although I also love that people think and go outside of the box). I am so used to feeling the balance and near vibration free performance, that I am likely sensitive to changes. When I used my 21 with 15`s backing plate and pads, I felt a significant difference.

Simply operate the tool in free air and touch the body. You will feel the buzz. Swap to engineered backing plate and pad and it is as close to vibration free as likely possible. A significant amount of time was invested in this effort.

I understand - and appreciate - that even a small amount of vibration is understood to be normal with this style of tool, but I also know that it can all but be eliminated. Give it a shot and report back :-)

**autoconcierge** · 07-21-2015, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Swanicyouth

You gotta read between the lines here. Honestly, if I was Rupes - I`d be pissed someone (tried to) copy our flag ship machine and system approach down to an identical counterweight, the throw (waiting for their Duetto knock-off), and the number of holes (I think it`s around 32) on the BP shroud.

Then they glue some rubber to the outside and say that is an advantage. Of course it`s all dressed up and sold as a kit - just like Rupes. They even include "the washer" (Duh? If you were confident in your design - why would you include something to modify it ???). Then they get a bunch of pro detailers who got free machines come on here to shill it.

But, as we know - the copy will never be as good as the original. I have a shelf full of products from the copy cat company. I won`t be replacing any of those when they run out.

Quite frankly, that company makes some decent products (they also make some mediocre products), but they don`t make anything that I couldn`t replace from someone else. Not a single product. If they make a single class leading product, please feel free to list it here:

........

(just one is sufficient)

Detailing isn`t a billion dollar market. You have to support the people who bring cool stuff to market - or nobody will bring cool stuff to market.

Rant over.

Funny I have to send my machine(s) back but I did go through all of the liquids recently and PURCHASED more, another funny thing Rupes fought Kevin Brown initially over the washer mod HE THOUGHT of not Rupes and another Midwest Rupes seller said the washer was bad...............then flipped his position after he stuck his finger in the air to see the public opinion after he saw how much it improved the performance.

I gave my opinion on the Boss 21 and other products as favorable, and when the Rupes was released in the states Kevin sold Richie (Paint Protection of Orlando) and myself the first two machines available as we followed him home from Vegas(SEMA)to his storage facility and have a FACEBOOK pic showing this and guess what I gave a favorable review then so was I schilling then also?.

Knucklehead comments from those who do not know zip.

**WhyteWizard** · 07-21-2015, 09:43 AM

A lot of people have vibration related injuries even when they`ve run very smooth machines. Running a machine against a surface always sends vibrations back through the machine - at least to the extent that there`s friction against the surface. So, I`ve become a fan of vibration dampening gloves, particularly these:

They`re MadGrip gloves and I like them because they`re relatively cheap, close to ten bucks, available at Lowes and they`re washable. They`re also great for any job where you want to be able to get a good grip on something. Sheet metal for example, or even boxes, if you happen to be moving.

Also, keeping my wrists straight has proven to be important. Lots of us have fallen by the wayside from repetitive motion injuries. I`m 63 and still going good, at least so far, but I`ve had to pay attention to get here.

Madgrip gloves at Lowes.

Robert

**Bunky** · 07-21-2015, 10:32 AM

You have detailers that think the HF is every bit as good (depends on what you consider primary criteria( as Rupes so lots of opinion but then many like Bud as their favorite beer. For some alcohol is alcohol and less about taste. My old UDM 1.0 vibrated a lot so got the Rupes since I did not like the GG6.

**Angus** · 07-21-2015, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by WhyteWizard

A lot of people have vibration related injuries even when they`ve run very smooth machines. Running a machine against a surface always sends vibrations back through the machine - at least to the extent that there`s friction against the surface. So, I`ve become a fan of vibration dampening gloves, particularly these:

They`re MadGrip gloves and I like them because they`re relatively cheap, close to ten bucks, available at Lowes and they`re washable. They`re also great for any job where you want to be able to get a good grip on something. Sheet metal for example, or even boxes, if you happen to be moving.

Also, keeping my wrists straight has proven to be important. Lots of us have fallen by the wayside from repetitive motion injuries. I`m 63 and still going good, at least so far, but I`ve had to pay attention to get here.

Madgrip gloves at Lowes.

Robert

Great suggestion. I`ll keep an eye out for those next time I`m in Lowes.

**ShawnF350** · 07-21-2015, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Todd@RUPES

I spent a lot of time on the road, teaching our distribution on the RUPES system. I almost always use the system in the manner it was developed (although I also love that people think and go outside of the box). I am so used to feeling the balance and near vibration free performance, that I am likely sensitive to changes. When I used my 21 with 15`s backing plate and pads, I felt a significant difference.

Simply operate the tool in free air and touch the body. You will feel the buzz. Swap to engineered backing plate and pad and it is as close to vibration free as likely possible. A significant amount of time was invested in this effort.

I understand - and appreciate - that even a small amount of vibration is understood to be normal with this style of tool, but I also know that it can all but be eliminated. Give it a shot and report back :-)

I`ll need Ray`s help!!!
Two of all four colored 7" Pads for my 21.
Waiting on a PM from him after he reads this.. Lol

**nothingface5384** · 07-21-2015, 03:14 PM

Well if thats the case why dont you guys make a 5in backing plate for the rupes 21with enough mass to renuetralize the counter balance to keep it vibration free? Same for the 15 6in plate

**David Fermani** · 07-21-2015, 03:41 PM

Just to reiterate, one of the most unique things that goes along with owning a RUPES over any other large throw DA is the engineering and technology that has gone into these machines. They simply didn`t just reengineer an existing machine. Let`s be reminded that they created this mainstream, game changing technology that other companies have been actively trying to replicate. Could they have made their machines better? Sure, but just like any other product manufacturer they strive to constantly improve their products. That`s basically second nature to any company that is technologically driven like I know they are. I`m very certain that they have been listening to end users critiques and are planning on bringing more new and exciting machines to paint polishers around the world that will continue them to be the market leader in R&D as well as sales. This article by Todd is just 1 of the many things that can assist owners and potential buyers that their decision to own/buy a RUPES is a correct one. I for one am and will continue to give them my full attention and support. Having them as a sponsor on Autopia makes it even better!

**RaysWay** · 07-21-2015, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Greg Nichols

So if someone changed the backing plate but it was of the same mass and same size that shouldn`t affect the vibration correct?

Originally Posted by nothingface5384

Well if thats the case why dont you guys make a 5in backing plate for the rupes 21with enough mass to renuetralize the counter balance to keep it vibration free? Same for the 15 6in plate

I`m not an engineer, but in balanced systems the location of the mass is just as important as the amount of mass.

For example, if you had two identical 2000 Mercury Sables and moved the engine in one of them by 1 inch in any direction; the car would not handle exactly the same as the Mercury Sable with the engine in the stock location even though the total mass of both vehicles are identical. Todd touched on the importance of the location of mass in this statement:

Originally Posted by Todd@RUPES

Vibration, for this discussion, is a factor of being out of balance. Random orbital polishers, by design, are quite unbalanced. You have a large mass (backing plate/pad/spindle) that is orbiting around a center axis point. The further the mass is away from the axis, the greater the unbalance, the more intense the vibration becomes.
    

It`s easier to visualize when you think of torque. (Notice the amount of force required is dependent on the location)

So if you have a balanced system that was engineered to work with a 6 inch backing plate that weights 30 grams, it`s not as simple as replacing it with a 5 inch backing plate that weighs 30 grams. I`m sure engineering students all over the world wished the engineering was so simple.

Also the more variables there are, the more complicated the math and physics become. If you want to keep the machine balanced, the entire system has to be considered; not just the backing plate. (bottom counterweight, shaft, top counterweight, mass of both counterweights, length of shaft, mass of shaft, etc etc etc)

**Todd@RUPES** · 07-21-2015, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by nothingface5384

Well if thats the case why dont you guys make a 5in backing plate for the rupes 21with enough mass to renuetralize the counter balance to keep it vibration free? Same for the 15 6in plate

Exceptional question with an equally exceptional answer by Vega. What I tried to touch on - and perhaps struggled with because I am not an engineer - is that dynamic balance is far more than just mass. When I asked this question during my visit to Milan, the answer I received echo`s Vegas. The location of mass is equally as important (perhaps more so) than the mass. RUPES BigFoot Pads are dynamically balanced to both the backing pad and the internal counter balance of the tool. Even though RUPES uses the highest quality components inside of the polishers (I have literally had tool guys gush about the quality of bearings), the nature of a large diameter random orbital tool is such that incredible amount of stress is placed on the internal components unless the system is balanced correctly.

It is very difficult to dynamically balance the tool with a smaller pad and backing plate unless the CoG (center of gravity) can be manipulated in a way that maintains dynamic balance. RUPES as an engineering firm holds itself to an extraordinary high standard. As a tool manufacturer, they feel compelled to deliver products that meet a very high standard to the customer. That said, nothing is impossible and we never know what the future holds

However, it is a great question and one I have asked myself.

**Stokdgs** · 07-21-2015, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Angus

Great suggestion. I`ll keep an eye out for those next time I`m in Lowes.

Good men,
Love the information exchanged on this thread - thank you so much !

Robert,
Thanks for the tip on the gloves..

I too, from decades of using big power tools including years of big bar chainsaw time, came to the point where all my carpal tunnels wrists and hands were damaged and nothing was going to help them except surgery..
Lucky for me I was still married, had access to 2 health plans, and found some awesome hand surgeons on Pill Hill, Seattle, WA., that used microsurgery to go into all the tunnels where they neck down and were damaged and repaired everything in both arms and all the tunnels in each hand..
Never had I ever had such relief from all that pain ! Once healed up and I didnt wait long because I had the Detailing Bizz to run, I was great and have never looked back..

All of those wrist and arm bands with velcro, etc., sports therapy, massage, ice, the electronic things that send weak currents across your joints, etc., not going to really do it until you get the surgery..
Hope that all of those who are dealing with the pain which will never go away completely, may be able to get in to see a hand surgeon.. It really works..
Dan F

**Swanicyouth** · 07-21-2015, 05:30 PM