Almost to the point of giving up, anyone help me out. Im almost done with detailing!!

**quamen** · 04-11-2005, 07:49 PM

I have had the hardest cars to detail lately, and I cant get the looking any good. I usually have no problem, even those these cars are black. Today i had an 96` audi a4 and it was very swirled and had alot of defects. I washed, clayed and buffed, but it still came out not great.

Im not used to these results and it is making me really frustererated. I spent about 10 hours on this car for something that small and the results I didnt think were good, but the owner did. Anyways, I buffed using all assorted products like DACP,Poorboys SSR2, 2.5,1, and they both didnt work. I got some swirls out, but I also was left with hazing and I tried just about every pad combo/product I could think of. I was exhausted and very frustered at the end of the day.

Tommorow I have yes another black car 740I, and i just know im going to be exhausted and upset because i feel I cant produce great results for the customer anymore. I also tried both the rotary and Pc, and nothing worked. Suggestions? Im familiar with rotary use, but im always scared about burning paint outside since the weather is warm. HELP ME OUT PLEASE

**stilez** · 04-11-2005, 07:52 PM

Audi paint is no fun to work on.

I`ll wait for BillD to chime in, but with his near flawless A4, he has spent 7 hours or so on the hood alone!

We all have these days, but I would seriously suggest getting Menzerna polishes. They are made for the rotary and work better than Meguiar`s and Poorboy`s IMO (fulltime rotary user here). I`d pick up, PowerGloss (compound), Intensive Polish (like DACP/#80), and PO85RD (like SSR1). These polishes will blow you away and PO85RD will NEVER leave holograms (1500 rpm with polishing pad).

**Bill D** · 04-11-2005, 07:58 PM

He he I`m here and I have a horror story that occcured on Saturday.I washed my car pulled in the garage and still got awful spotting! :shocked :angry

I wound spending the rest of the day, about 8 hours repolishing my hood, roof, trunk and part of the upper doors. A Cyclo via FP II, white LC pads followed by the PC ,AIO and black pads alone took that amount of time

I got it back though along with eliminating whatever light marring that might have been on those surfaces. Whew!

As for the `96, most certainly a rotary. The only polishes that really seem most effective on an Audi for me are the 3m PI III seris, now PI 300 and, of course, Menzerna.

Like Sean said,the Menzerna PO twins are a true godsend. They are worth every penny and if anyone who deals with hard paint doesn`t have them, I couldn`t recommend them more highly

As always, when using a rotary, slow speeds and least aggressive pad first. :up

**poolvibe** · 04-11-2005, 08:25 PM

As in anything in life sometimes you have to take a step back and get back to basics so to speak. I am not an expert detailer by any means but I do understand being frustrated. Take a deep breath and simplify your process. Enjoy your work!!!!!! Just trying to be supportive.

**NavindraLR** · 04-11-2005, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by quamen

I have had the hardest cars to detail lately, and I cant get the looking any good. I usually have no problem, even those these cars are black. Today i had an 96` audi a4 and it was very swirled and had alot of defects. I washed, clayed and buffed, but it still came out not great.

Im not used to these results and it is making me really frustererated. I spent about 10 hours on this car for something that small and the results I didnt think were good, but the owner did. Anyways, I buffed using all assorted products like DACP,Poorboys SSR2, 2.5,1, and they both didnt work. I got some swirls out, but I also was left with hazing and I tried just about every pad combo/product I could think of. I was exhausted and very frustered at the end of the day.

Tommorow I have yes another black car 740I, and i just know im going to be exhausted and upset because i feel I cant produce great results for the customer anymore. I also tried both the rotary and Pc, and nothing worked. Suggestions? Im familiar with rotary use, but im always scared about burning paint outside since the weather is warm. HELP ME OUT PLEASE

did u use a rotary?

**Bill D** · 04-11-2005, 09:42 PM

Just for a quick handy reference, here`s the cut and gloss info for all of the Menzerna polishes.Via rotary, you may even have to bump up to Intensive Polish if the PO twins don`t do it.

Originally posted by Deanski

To clear up some things on these two polishes and the other known Menzerna polishes:

PO85RD and PO106 are case quantity only and is a bit pricey. Normally they only sell to dealers/distributors and since it`s not in their current business model to sell direct to a consumer, they will refer sales of the products to online dealers or other sources.

FP and FPII (Micro Polish) work very well with the right tools and technique. IP is one of my favorite swirl removers and Power Gloss is best for compounding finishes as it does not haze a finish as some other compounds/pads. PG is best used for really bad finishes, badly oxidized or marred. It removes 1000 grit sanding size marks. IP will remove 2000 grit sanding marks and FPII (Micro Polish-PO85MC) will remove 2500 grit sanding marks. FP or PO87MF does not remove any listed sanding marks. It`s best as a last finishing polish to burnish a finish to a very high gloss.

PO85RD removes 3000 grit sanding marks and PO106 removes 2500 grit sanding marks. These two are made for fresh OEM-Coatings.

FP and IP is designed for Fresh Repair Coatings and Aged/Weather-Worn/Oxidized Coatings. FPII or (Micro Polish- PO85MC) is used for Fresh-OEM Coatings and Fresh Repair Coatings.

Cut levels on a scale of 1 to 5 with 1 being low and 5 being high.

Power Gloss= Cut 5.0 and Gloss 1.5

Intensive Polish=Cut 3.5 and Gloss 3.0

Final Polish= Cut 1.5 and Gloss 4.0

Final Polish II= Cut 2.0 and Gloss 4.0

PO85RD= Cut 1.5 and Gloss 5.0

PO106= Cut 2.5 and Gloss 5.0

I hope this may answer some questions and application.

Regards,

Deanski

**thestingrayboys** · 04-12-2005, 12:22 AM

In the past, I have found that many cars that are hard to polish have had sealants applied to them in the past. A really good sealant cant be "polished" off, even with a rotary! You have to break it down first. Sometimes an application of fallout remover will work, sometimes you need to get nasty with it and use something solvent based. Believe me, once the sealant is broken, you will have something to work with.

Any one else out there with the same experience? In my neck of the woods, most cars out of the dealerships get sealed up before delivery.

**benpocock** · 04-12-2005, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by thestingrayboys

Any one else out there with the same experience? In my neck of the woods, most cars out of the dealerships get sealed up before delivery.

I`m starting to think this on the car I have with me at the moment. It`s a friend`s 2004 Audi A4 that he`s left with me to detail whilst he`s on business in the US. I`ve washed it and clayed it twice (and not gently either) and water is still sheeting off it like no tomorrow. Luckily it hasn`t got many marks in it so I`m going to crack out the SSR2.5 with a polishing pad and hopefully that will suffice.

Ben

**Bill D** · 04-12-2005, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by thestingrayboys

In the past, I have found that many cars that are hard to polish have had sealants applied to them in the past. A really good sealant cant be "polished" off, even with a rotary! You have to break it down first. Sometimes an application of fallout remover will work, sometimes you need to get nasty with it and use something solvent based. Believe me, once the sealant is broken, you will have something to work with.

Any one else out there with the same experience? In my neck of the woods, most cars out of the dealerships get sealed up before delivery.

That`s further reason to always use a dedicated wax remover first before initiating the polishing process. That said, no sealant is armor.

It is extremely evident to me that Audi clear coat is more difficult to polish than that of other marques. Mercedes` Ceramiclear seems even worse.

**Scottwax** · 04-12-2005, 05:29 PM

I know I spent quite a bit of time on an Audi TT and it took Optimum Polish and a burgandy Meguiars pad to start making a dent in them. The good thing was I wasn`t getting any marring (I had more than enough direct sun to check my work in) but just that step took over an hour. The swirls weren`t real bad, just normal for a 2 year old car that probably had never been really polished out. I spent around 5.5 hours total on a car that I should have been able to finish in 4 (the interior was in great shape!). You just have those days sometimes. It comes with the territory.

If you regularly work on cars that need extensive polishing then either becoming proficient with your rotary or maybe a Cyclo would help. I don`t have much experience with Menzerna (other than PO85RD) but Optimum Polish is also at least as aggressive as DACP or SSR2.5 and seems to work better than those two with a cutting pad.

**Accumulator** · 04-12-2005, 07:39 PM

BenP- I wouldn`t expect claying to remove a good LSP. I spot clay at every wash and it does`t remove my LSPs. Rather than clay less than gently, I`d use a solvent/alcohol/polish. Claying is *supposed* to be a very gentle process

quamen- The good news is that the BMW will almost *certainly* be much easier than the Audi.

When my S8 was washed twice (and lightly hologrammed) following the "deer incident" repairs, it took me many hours (over quite a few days) with the rotary and the Cyclo to get it right. To bring a black `96 back from the dead is quite a tall order, though I seriously doubt your customer would be as particular as I was.

Not having used Menzerna or the Optimum, I`ve had to make do with 3M and 1Z stuff.

Simplest effective approach I`ve found for messed-up Audis:

Major marring- Rotary/1Z Ultra/cutting then

Less-severe marring- Rotary/3M PI-III RC (05933)/cutting then same with polishing

Follow with- Rotary/3M PI-III MG (05937)/polishing

Follow with- PI-III RC (yes, again)/Cyclo then PI-III MG/Cyclo

Finish with- 1z Pro MP/Cyclo

If you`re better with a rotary than I am you could abbreviate the above.

FWIW, I`ve seen *very* few Audis that were really marring-free in all lighting. And I`d think twice about getting a customer`s Audi absolutely perfect. If it gets marred again (which it will), you can only fix it so often until the clear gets too thin. Most people don`t even notice light marring, let alone mind it.

**Ron Harris** · 04-12-2005, 10:49 PM

I picked up a Black Lambs Wool pad From American Buffing at the World Car Care Expo. This pad is great with the Optimum. I have used it on new paint; Repaints and old paints it leaves little marring witch can be removed with a black Lake Country Foam Pad. I Guarantee this combo to work for any (experienced) Rotary user.

I get so Excited with the results that I feel like I should Keep it a secret. But then I want to tell every one I know

**Bill D** · 04-13-2005, 08:28 AM

Accumulator,

I`m surprised you don`t have/use Menzerna. It can really do wonders , I`m certain, in particular, via rotary. I have the"PI III twins" and I rarely user them because I find the Menzerna results so delightful.

**Accumulator** · 04-13-2005, 09:42 AM

Bill D- I`m sorta in a "not broke/don`t fix" mode when it comes to my polishing. I always end up using the MG followed by 1Z Pro MP anyhow. The only time I used the Menzerna was their FP, and I was a lot happier with how the 1Z left things. But note that I hardly *ever* have to do any real correction these days. If I were removing marring on a regular basis I`d be trying both Menzerna and Optimum.