How Do You Pros Handle Rust-Blooms?

[Accumulator]

I didn`t want to thread-jack the "do you clay?" thread so I`m posting this as a new thread.



Just curious about how you (real i.e., Autopian ) pros handle rustblooms. The "pros" around here never really eliminate them from the cars they do (seems like most car nuts around here have theirs professionally detailed). These supposed "pros" hardly ever clay, let alone use decontamination systems, and the polishes/paint cleaners they use obviously don`t solve the problem.



On my vehicles, it takes frequent claying and often the use of decontamination systems like ABC to keep the whole "ferrous contamination" issue at bay. But mine (and those owned by people I advise) are the only vehicles I ever see in my area that don`t have the rustblooms.



I always expect the pros here to be quite different from those in my area (who are, nonetheless, very successful- they charge a lot, work on a lot of exotics, and are always busy) and I was just curious....

[joburnet]

Please define "rust-boom".



If there is a place where rust is bubbling up from underneath the paint then the only thing to do is take it to a body shop to get it fixed.



If your talking about when Rail Dust gets stuck into paint and eventually causes small rust specs then Claying the vehicle every six months or so should take care of it.

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by joburnet

Please define "rust-boom". ..If your talking about when Rail Dust gets stuck into paint and eventually causes small rust specs then Claying the vehicle every six months or so should take care of it.

Yeah, that`s what I was referring to- spots from where ferrous contamination started to corrode, resulting in a little rust spot. I`m *not* referring to paint chip/paint failure/etc. rusted areas (whole different problem).



Perhaps I wasn`t clear, and if so I apologize. Between clay and AutoInt`s ABC I`ve solved the rustbloom problem on *our* vehicles. The ABC seems to provide a more permanent fix, at least on new vehicles, but often the clay *is* sufficient.



I was just curious about how you professional detailers deal with them on customers` cars. Or *if* they get dealt with it at all. This curiosity was prompted by the thread about "Do You (pros) Clay..".

[usdm]

Although I do help my father out in the bodyshop,

I would not call myself a pro, at least when it comes

to detailing.



That said, I can tell you that before clay and decon

systems were introduced to the shop, the conventional

metod of dealing with rust was use a "pen that had

rust inhibitor chemical, sand down the affected section,

then touch up or repaint. It was tedious, but it tended

to get the job done, and we did not get a lot of

comebacks. Even after getting introduced to clay

a while back, I did not find that it was always a thorough

solution as the spots would come back after a while.

Sometimes they would reappear almost a full week after

the claying was done. Since I started using the Decon

kit, however, I have found that most if not all rust spots

come off, and if the customer kept up with the

car`s upkeep, the rust spots tended to stay off.

Nowadays, if I am doing a new car (at least new to me),

I always try to get the person to at least get a decon

before any other work is done. I still clay, but thanks to

the kit, I now only focus on spot cleaning when the decon

kit by itself will not take everything off.



It really does make me wonder how we managed to get

along as well as we did without the kit...

[Accumulator]

Thanks USDM. Sounds like your experiences are about the same as mine. I too find the kits to be a real godsend, but it seems that not too many here at Autopia seem to need them the way I do.



And you`re certainly right about the importance of custormer upkeep. I have some to-the-metal stone chips on the XJS that have stayed just fine for 18 years without even touchup paint (though that`s different from the rust blooms under discussion). All a matter of taking proper care of things.



I`m a little surprised this isn`t a bigger problem for pros that it apparently is. Around here, all the light colored cars have a lot of these things...

[usdm]

Originally posted by Accumulator

Thanks USDM. Sounds like your experiences are about the same as mine. I too find the kits to be a real godsend, but it seems that not too many here at Autopia seem to need them the way I do.

To be honest, I did not find about the kits until recently

last year. There used to be a supplier the shop dealt

with that pushed something similar to the decons. But

for some reason it did not catch. It was not used primarily

for rust spots, but rather as a prep clean before painting.



I think the reason we dont hear more folks using the kits

is because they feel there is no need to, or

maybe they are not inclined to share their secrets.

Originally posted by Accumulator

And you`re certainly right about the importance of custormer upkeep. I have some to-the-metal stone chips on the XJS that have stayed just fine for 18 years without even touchup paint (though that`s different from the rust blooms under discussion). All a matter of taking proper care of things.



I`m a little surprised this isn`t a bigger problem for pros that it apparently is. Around here, all the light colored cars have a lot

of these things...

Trying to get folks to keep up with their cars is my biggest

problem. While I don`t mind at all that they return, it bothers

me that they return when their car is back in rough shape

again. The logic for a lot of these folks seems to be that if I was

able to clean it up the first time, there should be no problem

to clean it up again as many times as needed.

[jimmybuffit]

It is not a common concern for the cars I see. I think it is related to the local environment.



Having spent years in the NE Ohio area, I know the air quality is substantially different from that here in the cornfields of Indiana...



I am a big fan of the Valugard A-B-C process, when indicated.

It certainly leaves a clean surface!



Jim

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by Jimmy Buffit

It is not a common concern for the cars I see. I think it is related to the local environment.



Having spent years in the NE Ohio area, I know the air quality is substantially different from that here in the cornfields of Indiana...



I am a big fan of the Valugard A-B-C process, when indicated.

It certainly leaves a clean surface!

Yeah, maybe it is a more localized issue.



Nice to hear ABC works well for people who use it more extensively than I do (as a non-pro).

Originally posted by USDM

I think the reason we dont hear more folks using the kits

is because they feel there is no need to, or

maybe they are not inclined to share their secrets.

Heh heh, I wouldn`t have thought that pros here would be unwilling to share such a "secret" when I`ve come right out and asked about it...I guess they just don`t see the need for such measures.



But AutoInt and FinishKare sure sell a lot of these decontamination systems, so I know that *somebody* is using the stuff!

[usdm]

I got hooked on the fk1 after hearing claims that

the AutoInt stuff could damage glass or trim, so I

pretty much stuck with fk1. But ordering from them is

something of a hassle for me (me and paypal do not

get along). The pricing on Autoint stuff is very competetive

and they are closer to my neck of the woods. After

I finish up the last of my fk1 decon, I`m going to

give the AutoInt stuff a try.

[jimmybuffit]

USDM: FWIW, I`ve not expeienced any issues with glass or trim, after two years of use. Be aware of the issue, and use some caution.



I think the issue has been a bit `inflated` ...



Jim

[usdm]

I`m inclined to believe there`s some over-inflations as well,

Jimmy. I guess I got caught up in all the hype over at FK1. I

use the kit on the glass as well, and I don`t find any issues

with staining. The glass always ends up real clean, and water

just beads like crazy after I use it.



When I mentioned AutoInt to one of the FK1 reps, he was

fit to be tied. I won`t get into it here, but let`s just say there

is no love loss between the folks at FK1 and some of the

folks at AutoInt..



Anyway, for me, results and ease of purchase are what

count. Definitely will give the competition a try soon enough,

and I will heed any warnings offered.

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by usdm

When I mentioned AutoInt to one of the FK1 reps, he was

fit to be tied. I won`t get into it here, but let`s just say there

is no love loss between the folks at FK1 and some of the

folks at AutoInt..

Maybe it`s silly of me, but whenever somebody gets all bent out of shape regarding their competitor(s) I think "uh-oh, something`s funny here...". It erodes their credibility in my eyes.

[usdm]

Originally posted by Accumulator

Maybe it`s silly of me, but whenever somebody gets all bent out of shape regarding their competitor(s) I think "uh-oh, something`s funny here...". It erodes their credibility in my eyes.

LOL, the warning light went off in my head as well when the

rep started going on. By that time though, I was already

committed to the purchase. But I kept the whole situation

in my mental roladex.



Still though, I can`t say I have any problems with the Decon

kit save for two: the hassle of buying the stuff, and the fact

that it, more than any other products I have, goes pretty fast.

As I have had more time to play with the stuff, I think I have

a good handle on how to keep from using it up so quick. Haven`t

had a chance to try using a clay bar with it, however. Do you

have a suggestion on what clay bar type to use with one of

the decon kits? Also, when do you use it, during the acid or

alkaline neutralization steps?

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by usdm

Do you have a suggestion on what clay bar type to use with one of the decon kits? Also, when do you use it, during the acid or alkaline neutralization steps?

I clay while the acidic step is dwelling. That`s the "B" step with ABC.



The first time I did it I used Griot`s (yellow clay, seemed just like all the other yellow one`s I`ve used) and the acid seemed to dissolve the clay quite a bit. Subsequent jobs, I used the Autopia Block clay, which didn`t seem to dissolve quite as much. So I`d go with a somewhat "plastic" clay. The only stuff I have on hand now is Sonus; it isn`t too plastic-y, but I`d still just use that. As long as it doesn`t dissolve as fast as the Griot`s did you should be fine, and even that wasn`t a real *problem* or anything.

[togwt]

Originally posted by Accumulator

I clay while the acidic step is dwelling. That`s the "B" step with ABC.



The first time I did it I used Griot`s (yellow clay, seemed just like all the other yellow one`s I`ve used) and the acid seemed to dissolve the clay quite a bit. Subsequent jobs, I used the Autopia Block clay, which didn`t seem to dissolve quite as much. So I`d go with a somewhat "plastic" clay. The only stuff I have on hand now is Sonus; it isn`t too plastic-y, but I`d still just use that. As long as it doesn`t dissolve as fast as the Griot`s did you should be fine, and even that wasn`t a real *problem* or anything.

Thanks Accumalator, after read this thread the decontamination process made more sense. I could not get my mind around a liquid removing ferrous metal from a paint surface, but add detailing clay and it makes sense.



LSS I tried it and it worked, not much rust here (FL) so I don`t have to use this type of system but a client brought a NY based Jag in and wanted me to evaluate the surface, it was a very dirty silver and I mean really dirty (I thought it was a dark grey mettalic when he brought it in)



Thanks again



JonM