AcrylicWerks Test Car #2

**Scottwax** · 08-19-2003, 11:45 PM

Excellent points, Bret.

I`ve also noticed the complete lack of substance in most of Mark`s posts.

**TortoiseAWD** · 08-20-2003, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Scottwax

BTW, Mark, could you please answer Anthony`s last question to you? How can a (as you claim your product is) non abrasive product level the paint and remove swirls?

Getting a straight answer on that one may be rather like trying to nail jelly to a tree, methinks . . .

Tort

**imported_phareous** · 08-20-2003, 11:25 AM

Well if Mark cannot defend his product and give direct, insightful answers then I guess his product is nothing but snakeoil. Next!

**Thomasfl** · 08-20-2003, 11:51 AM

Final thought. Mark is a good guy who is providing a one step product to consumers and not professionals. His product is probably incredible compared to the products that are available to the average consumer at Kmart, Target, etc. In that way he is doing the average consumer a favor giving them a product that is far superior to their raindance that they have been using. Most people don`t know what to do with trim and in this way they now have a product that will remove oxidation, a huge adavantage to someone with limited knowledge. Another point to think about, if this product is so revolutionary, even to the average consumer, why isn`t it in every store across the country? If I had a one-step product that removes swirls and scratches and protects the surface, I don`t think it would be hard to find some funding or even have one of the "big boys" in the industry strike a distribution deal. Mark and his loyal customers love the product but what the problem is that I although I believe Mark is a great salesperson, he is lacking some concrete knowledge of the car care industry. Knowing the strengths and weakness of a product is important, I suggest using solid well known facts to show off the strengths and hide the weakness` of your product. It seems that this is just another product when it comes to being on the professional level. Marketing a product for professionals and consumers is based on different criteria, which is why the "big boys" add special professional lines for their products that cater to the high standards that knowledgable professionals have. My point is if you want to break into the professional detailers you will need to base your products use on different proven criteria with a more humble approach.

**AWMark** · 08-20-2003, 07:56 PM

Hello To All,

Well I have taken some time here to reflect on your responses. My first response will be to bring everyone up to speed; I did not create this polish, the polish was created by 2 European Chemist who currently reside in Western Germany. They are very protective of their formula and have only supplied me with an MSDS that pretty much clears it for entry into our country via ship or commercial airlines and gives the necessary information to my commercial accounts for local and state inspectors. They back the product with their insurance and pretty much gave us the guidelines on where it is to be applied.

Out of couriosity, I asked one of my customers in San Diego who is a Chemical Engineer for the Navy to check the polish out. He came back 48 hours later and told me that they had a general idea as to what is in it and what isn`t. He said with a little more time they could easily identify each ingredient, but it would be virtually impossible to duplicate the formula because it would take years and some very serious money to trial and error the proper amount of each ingredient just to get it close. He closed with, I should do everything to keep these guys happy.

So, I`ve learned how to apply this polish, how to ask for a demonstration and basically stand back and let the customer decide for themselves if this demonstration impressed or not. I`m not going to beg anyone to buy the polish.

Now, in regards to the $1,000,000.00 question, truely I can only rationalize based on seven years of observing each and every demo. We can confirm the lack of abrasives by restoring bug shields, plexiglass, wind deflectors, carbon fiber hoods, plastic windows on camper shells and helmet visors which are items that can be very easily damaged and leave no abrasion marks on the surfaces. We also base that on doing new cars that did not go to the make ready department and have strictly used my product from day one. These folks have enjoyed a swirl free finish and no fading to trim, rubber, etc.. Some now for seven years. As for removing swirl marks, I really just get in there and rub the surface until I begin to notice the swirls breaking down, then I will take a break and let the polish sit on the surface, then I will come back and again rub my polish on in a criss-cross motion to counter the swirls. When I`m finished, based on the quality of the paint job, it will pretty much determine how much of the swirl marks gone, usually anywhere from 85% to complete removal. I came to conclusion that this must be removing them because the swirls do not reappear in 1 month or 4 months later (customers are usually re-applying by now) and these are vehicles that stay outside full time. Now, from our discussions we know waxes put swirls into a paint job, and we would probably use a finer cut to reduce those swirls but at the same time that finer cut has also left some slight abrasions that are later filled with a glaze to create a mirror finish. That is fine, but we also know that any prolonged exposure to sunlight will melt that glaze and let those swirls reappear. So, with that I figured I wasn`t filling the swirls because when my customers swirl marks are gone, they pretty much stay gone.

In the end, even if I had a complete breakdown of the ingredients it would mean squat untill I tested it myself. If the companies you deal with came to you and said they`ve created a radically advanced wax at 10 times the cost and they handed you a MSDS or ingredient breakdown how many would purchase without first trying it? When customers hear me say $30.00 you`d laugh at some of the initial responses, but when I say, "I`ll show why it`s worth it, on your car" you can generally hear a pin drop. Now you have their undivided attention.

Unfortunately, I don`t think this response will work for everyone, but that`s all I can provide at this time.

Mark G.

**Anthony O.** · 08-20-2003, 08:11 PM

Mark,

Thanks for the response. I am sorry to read though that you have no further information on your product.

I would like to point something out though that you wrote in your post that I find to be in error.

You wrote:

"Now, from our discussions we know waxes put swirls into a paint job, and we would probably use a finer cut to reduce those swirls but at the same time that finer cut has also left some slight abrasions that are later filled with a glaze to create a mirror finish. That is fine, but we also know that any prolonged exposure to sunlight will melt that glaze and let those swirls reappear."

Mark,

Where did we agree or claim that "wax" will introduce swirls marks? You keep saying that waxes contain abrasives but which waxes are you speaking of?

Also your detailing "steps" are backwards. You put wax on top of glaze and not glaze on top of wax. If you put glaze on top of wax then yes of course it will quickly wash away or as you said "melt" away. In my experience trying to put a glaze on top of a wax will create problems.

Lastly no one experienced in detailing will try to remove swirls with glaze or wax mainly because they DO NOT contain any abrasives in them!! Please don`t take this the wrong way Mark but I believe you might be out of your league posting this type of stuff to pro`s. Again I mean no offense, you are a very nice guy, but not too many on Autopia will agree with your last post.

Anthony

**Diggs** · 08-20-2003, 08:15 PM

how come there isnt any BS flag smilies?

hehe

actions speak louder than words... i personally dont believe what your product does but il judge it when u or someone shows that it actually does what you say. how about asking your supplier the chemists how their formula removes swirls without any abrasives. send them an email and show us their reply and then we might reconsider

**imported_Greg** · 08-20-2003, 10:56 PM

So are Mr. Gonzales and Mr. Orosco still going to get together and work on a car?

**AWMark** · 08-20-2003, 11:42 PM

Greg,

Thank You for remembering that small fact. You know guys you may not like my response but one you always seem to forget is, I`m more than willing to meet with Anthony and let my polish speak for itself. This is how I make my living, doing the live demonstration. Like I said, I respect Anthony and will never take it personally when he offers his opinion. I`m learning this business from another perspective, and also keep my mind open to learn more about this industry from a detailers point of view.

I`m 7 years into what I do, and I`ve never got tired seeing what this product does. Now, I`m willing to bring one of you into my world for a day. Anthony, would you like to come out to Fort Sam Houston with me for the day and I only say the day so we would have some time to get a few demos in, Monday thru Saturday? This way a trust worthy source could pass the details on to the group. I offer this only if you have time and I would not pull you away from your business. I would even set up on a Sunday if that would help. To all, I`m offering this only to eliminate the doubt, so we can see if the claims hold true, even on unwashed vehicles in the heat of the day. Look forward to the responses.

Mark G.

**JasonC8301** · 08-21-2003, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by AWMark

To all, I`m offering this only to eliminate the doubt, so we can see if the claims hold true, even on unwashed vehicles in the heat of the day.

This really goes against some of the most basic principles of car detailing.

Use a product on a car that claims remove swirls, oxidation, and protect the finish, now also clean a dirty car? Also thrown in the heat of day?

I want to :argue

**Corey Bit Spank** · 08-21-2003, 12:31 AM

Mark, so, what you are saying is, your product HIDES swirls? This is stodgy advertising by saying it "removes" swirls. I understand you say it does this "forever," but I do not believe this.

**Corey Bit Spank** · 08-21-2003, 12:38 AM

Furthermore if you do not wash your car before using your product (I believe you said you didn`t have to somewhere---HIGHLY recomended though) wouldn`t the DIRT be abrassive? And I`m curious, when you`re done rubbing to china with your product (I believe in the first test Anthony posted) it took you an hour to do a foot by 2 and a half foot section, is the finish smooth to the touch (be it, like after you clay bar a car?) Otherwise, wouldn`t you be, in all your rubbing haste and furry trying to smoosh your product into those swirls to hide them, be rubbing all that contamination into the paint? Doesn`t this "seal" it in? Mind you, just washing doesn`t get this stuff off of the paint.

**rstype** · 08-21-2003, 12:53 AM

Aye-yah... harsh, are we?

Originally posted by Corey Bit Spank

Otherwise, wouldn`t you be, in all your rubbing haste and furry trying to smoosh your product into those swirls to hide them, be rubbing all that contamination into the paint? Doesn`t this "seal" it in? Mind you, just washing doesn`t get this stuff off of the paint.

Blegh, I don`t get this about "sealing in contaminates" anymore. I used to be all paranoid, and clayed before each new layer of Zaino that has been out for over a week. What if I sandwiched in some contamination?! AHHHH!!! I see Mike Phillips babbling about this all the time.

In my humble opinion, all products are too thin to seal anything in. When you apply a wax or something, the height of a contaminate is higher. With polymers, that means it just bonds to whatever it can.

**Corey Bit Spank** · 08-21-2003, 01:01 AM

I don`t clay bar as much as I used to. I just like the paint smooth. Is that too much to ask?

**Anthony O.** · 08-21-2003, 02:15 AM

Test car is still a GO ......

Just looking for the right "sad sack" car tocome along that is either red or black. I did a quick wash for a client today with a red Honda that was in the body shop and it has a lovely case of "oversprayitis" with heavy "swirlmania" that would be perfect for our little test. The only problem will be trying to schedule a time when the car is available for Mark to come out and do his side as the cars owner is a Dr. and I never know when he and the car will be at this hospital and for how long.

My solution is to use the sample bottle of Acrylic Werks that Mark gave me on one half of the hood myself. Mark may object to this, especially if the results are notgreat, claiming that I did not apply it correctly. I understand this but I also disagree with it because if I were a consumer I should be able to just follow the directions and duplicate what Mark does and claims.

I think I will try this as it will give me a first hand account of how the product goes on and I believe I can better report on the product. I`ll keep you all updated as things get done.

Anthony