Why don`t detailers sell warranties? You are losing $$.

[Scottwax]

I`ve only read the first page so if someone else already said it, oh well.



I don`t recall any customer ever asking me about a warranty. I think a lot of them have been either burned in the past or a suspicious of dealership claims and prices on sealant system (thanks in part to people talking about it on car forums) and are just looking for a good detail and someone who will take care of their car for the long haul. Even people inquiring about Opti-Coat don`t seem that interested in a specific warranty. They do ask my opinion about how long I believe it will protect their paint but as of yet no one was specifically asked "will you warranty/promise that". Now, I have mentioned that at some point Optimum will offer a warranty but no one has asked me specifically what that covers, seems they are already sold on the product before they even talk to me about applying it.



Is there money to be made offering a product with a warranty? Probably. But there are also liability issues. Like how to handle any problems that the warranty might cover, what my responsibilities are as the person who applied it, what if the owner of the car moves out of the area, etc. I`m just playing a wait and see game right now, want to see how this plays out as legitimate long term paint protection product continue to roll out.

[(901)]

If I can make it, at Wednesday Night Chat, I will explain the "insurance" side, and how one sets it up, legally, how the basics work for a legitimate "vehicle warranty" business, be it as being discussed or other portions of the industry.

May also touch on why some that were "big" in the paint/interior/rust/undercoat business for years just faded away at their own choice.

Not here, only in the Wednesday Night Chat Room.

Grumpy

What time does this start?

[autoconcierge]

Outstanding point, Charlie. This and your sub-points on it are well thought out.

I concur...................Charlie said(In a PC style fasion btw)many points I had posted in my "Deleted post" as Charlie is also one of the few around here who "Gets it". When you are sitting there thinking and scheming ways to re-invent the wheel you lose sight of the "What if`s" and possible blow back in a zeal to "Do it big".



As I posted before ..............it sounds like I am angryman who cannot think outside the box or I am intolerant of fresh ideas and nothing could be further from the truth, however with 50 years on the planet to date I have seen a few things tried and fail due a non-NASA like mindset where in the space program you have double and triple back ups for any scenario.



Just "Trying something" just to try it and being positive about possible failure is naive in nature, measured risk is part of the deal and we all take risks every day to some extent but there has to be some thought about "Cause & effect" and when you skim over the possible outcome lack of experience sticks out like a sore thumb.



Pre-paid service other than a deposit will nine times out of ten cause a problem, example there is a guy here in the Bay Area who does this and then does not follow up on the "Scheduled maintenance" therefore building a rep of being frankly a shady guy. Many of my clients change there appointments for one reason or another constantly, now with a pre-paid scenario you are OBLIGATED in your clients eyes tenfold over the normal appointment scenario because they have already PAID MONEY.



Ask yourself this...........................consider the time wasted in admin keeping track of this or that? Charlie made this point perfectly clear and most of not all detailers I have come across do not even know to a close percentage what their profit margin is based on implied costs of performing the task of day to day work , thus my statement "Majoring in the minors and minoring in the majors".

[JohnKleven]

If you can offer a warranty at a fair price, you SHOULD tell the customer, but let them make up their own mind. You SHOULD NOT have dealership margins on a warranty.

[Jean-Claude]

I have nothing to add beyond what many have said. "Liking" those that hit the nail on the head.

[imported_Quenga]

If I can make it, at Wednesday Night Chat, I will explain the "insurance" side, and how one sets it up, legally, how the basics work for a legitimate "vehicle warranty" business, be it as being discussed or other portions of the industry.

May also touch on why some that were "big" in the paint/interior/rust/undercoat business for years just faded away at their own choice.

Not here, only in the Wednesday Night Chat Room.

Grumpy

Interested! My class this month switched from M/W nights to T/Th, so I should be able to attend...if I don`t get side tracked catching up on recorded football games .

Well since you brought it up, I`ll tell you why I *don`t* (at least currently) offer annual inspections on Opti-Coat as a pre-paid service:



1) For many people, it`s difficult for them to know what they`ll be doing a year into the future. I`d rather tell them "I recommend having the coating inspected and bonded contaminants removed annually, so either come back to me or find another authorized installer to have this service performed" than to collect money that is non-transferable if they happen to move out of the area or get busy and don`t end up making the followup appointment. One of the reasons I`m comfortable doing this is that I`m the only authorized installer in my area; the next closest is 50+ miles away. They can`t just take it to any detailer in town and have them be familiar with the coating and how to provide aftercare for it.



2) Pre-paid services add administrative complexity that I as a one-man operation am not interested in incurring.



2a) First of all, from an accounting and tax perspective I would have to create a separate entry for $75 as unearned revenue and track it as a deferred tax liability -- and in the event that someone never comes back, I then have to go through the process of writing off the liability and deal with the tax implications of that.



2b) Secondly, from an ethical standpoint I would feel compelled to keep on top of clients to make sure they actually do schedule their followup appointment because I already have their money. When I simply offer the service as a "recommended followup" I send an email and/or a post-card to the client around the time they`re due for an inspection reminding them to book an appointment. If they don`t do it, that`s their choice. If I am holding their money, though, I`m not just going to send one email/card and forget about it, I`m going to want to keep chasing after the person multiple times to make an appointment. That could end up taking quite a bit of time and/or money that I simply am not interested in spending as it could quickly negate any gains I might have made through interest income.



Pre-paid services are a great idea, sure, but when it comes to a service like this they only make sense on a shorter timetable (pay monthly for weekly washes, etc.) in my opinion.



That said, I am planning to take a very close look at the way Optimum`s warranty program is set up to see what the coverage looks like, what the requirements of installers and clients are, and also who bears what portion of the liability and administrative burden. If things appear advantageous, I will probably opt in. We`ll see what shakes out once everything has been fully released for review.

Very good points. What if there was an e-mail program that constantly followed up, automatically, with these customers. There would be a time when the warranty or pre-paid service could run out and you would no longer have to deal with it. That`s a legal question, but something to look into.



I think the common theme is it takes too much of your time for not much more money. As David F. said, we all have different markets, and many of you focus on larger paint correction details. I can`t remember who said it, but my market is..."there are more Nissans than Ferraris." I`d love to fully correct some cars, but to me it`s too much work to find those people. I can waive down a few people on the street and convince them to get a $150 detail.



That`s where I would be headed if I grew this business. A shop that pumps out quality cars and can afford a bookkeeper/admin person to do all of this work. I wonder if it would make sense even, if a small portion of each pre-paid/warrantied service was given to a separate individual/business that did nothing but track/maintain these accounts. A lot of you guys might not be interested, but that`s another thing to consider.

I`ve only read the first page so if someone else already said it, oh well.



I don`t recall any customer ever asking me about a warranty. I think a lot of them have been either burned in the past or a suspicious of dealership claims and prices on sealant system (thanks in part to people talking about it on car forums) and are just looking for a good detail and someone who will take care of their car for the long haul. Even people inquiring about Opti-Coat don`t seem that interested in a specific warranty. They do ask my opinion about how long I believe it will protect their paint but as of yet no one was specifically asked "will you warranty/promise that". Now, I have mentioned that at some point Optimum will offer a warranty but no one has asked me specifically what that covers, seems they are already sold on the product before they even talk to me about applying it.



Is there money to be made offering a product with a warranty? Probably. But there are also liability issues. Like how to handle any problems that the warranty might cover, what my responsibilities are as the person who applied it, what if the owner of the car moves out of the area, etc. I`m just playing a wait and see game right now, want to see how this plays out as legitimate long term paint protection product continue to roll out.

Yes, a lot of people have been burned, that`s how they find us. Which is my point, why can`t we offer a better warranty with our better service? It`s seemingly coming down to the time and personal ethics of it. I have no problem taking someones money early for a service to be performed at a later date. I also have no qualms refunding their money if they ever decided to take it back. With the volume of clients many of you do, I don`t see this as huge of a time waster as someone who did thousands of cars/customers a year.



But again, this is all talk. Most guys only want to get paid for the work they do, not the work they could get. We all designed websites, go out and promote to find new clients, research machinery and new products, build our garages, create t-shirts/logos/uniforms, etc.



I could ask the question, what`s more productive... Calling/e-mailing a customer who`s money you have, or searching for a customer`s money you don`t have? You only have to talk to one person to get their money. Finding new clients, 1 in 15? 1 in 30? How long does it take to pick up the phone or shoot an e-mail...text even? A lot longer than it takes to drive to some car show/gathering and find another client.



Just a different perspective. Thoughts?

I concur...................Charlie said(In a PC style fasion btw)many points I had posted in my "Deleted post" as Charlie is also one of the few around here who "Gets it". When you are sitting there thinking and scheming ways to re-invent the wheel you lose sight of the "What if`s" and possible blow back in a zeal to "Do it big".



As I posted before ..............it sounds like I am angryman who cannot think outside the box or I am intolerant of fresh ideas and nothing could be further from the truth, however with 50 years on the planet to date I have seen a few things tried and fail due a non-NASA like mindset where in the space program you have double and triple back ups for any scenario.



Just "Trying something" just to try it and being positive about possible failure is naive in nature, measured risk is part of the deal and we all take risks every day to some extent but there has to be some thought about "Cause & effect" and when you skim over the possible outcome lack of experience sticks out like a sore thumb.



Pre-paid service other than a deposit will nine times out of ten cause a problem, example there is a guy here in the Bay Area who does this and then does not follow up on the "Scheduled maintenance" therefore building a rep of being frankly a shady guy. Many of my clients change there appointments for one reason or another constantly, now with a pre-paid scenario you are OBLIGATED in your clients eyes tenfold over the normal appointment scenario because they have already PAID MONEY.



Ask yourself this...........................consider the time wasted in admin keeping track of this or that? Charlie made this point perfectly clear and most of not all detailers I have come across do not even know to a close percentage what their profit margin is based on implied costs of performing the task of day to day work , thus my statement "Majoring in the minors and minoring in the majors".

Us "low mileage" guys have to gain experience somehow. I can either spend 50 years wondering, or pick your brain and get it done faster. I think a lot of "high mileage" guys forget that us youngin`s have a need to know, grow and are a lot more curious than they are. I now understand many other points of view, I have a legitimate case scenario I would have never found on my own from you and have new ideas brewing. Venture Capitalists have something like a 4% win ratio. They fail 96% of the time! But they only need that one idea to make them rich.



I`m not a thief or a liar and I`m not looking to scheme anyone. I had an idea, I couldn`t find an answer, I asked the question, I`m finding there are more answers than 1.



Also, we`re in different markets. It may not make sense for a guy like you, or many other paint correction guys out here, but I plan on having a different kind of business. I don`t cater to the extremely wealthy. I cater to average Joe`s like me. I can connect with them a lot better than some guy who`s made a fortune. I also don`t get along with many "white collar" type of guys. I am a blue collar worker with a white collar mindset. I can detail cars and I do them very well at the level I wish to achieve. I`m not the best, but I`m not a noob that doesn`t know what he`s doing. I didn`t pick up a polisher yesterday and grab a business license. I`ve got my basic detailing skills down, which, as you stated, we have to "fluff" the difficulty of it to sell it.



I can`t correct paint like you, but I can bang out a few quick details for several happy customers as well. I appreciate your input and don`t worry about being the "angry old man" around me. You`re a cupcake compared to my Sgt`s, Gunny`s and Sgt Majors, lol.

If you can offer a warranty at a fair price, you SHOULD tell the customer, but let them make up their own mind. You SHOULD NOT have dealership margins on a warranty.

Yes, the point. A better warranty along with our better service. That`s what I`m getting at.









I have lots to think about and research. This thread has opened a football field of knowledge and I appreciate everyone`s input. Ideas not relating to this subject have been seeded.







Also, I remember a certain youngin that defied the old guys and created a multi-billion dollar company called Facebook. I`m not that good, but I`ve got to believe I have something new to offer, or why be an entrepreneur in the first place? That is the idea, isn`t it?

[Scottwax]

I could ask the question, what`s more productive... Calling/e-mailing a customer who`s money you have, or searching for a customer`s money you don`t have? You only have to talk to one person to get their money. Finding new clients, 1 in 15? 1 in 30? How long does it take to pick up the phone or shoot an e-mail...text even? A lot longer than it takes to drive to some car show/gathering and find another client.

To be quite honest, I no longer have to actively search for new customers, my customers give me so many referrals, along with repeat business, people I know through car forums, etc that my business now pretty much markets itself.



When I first started off, I did have maintenance plans and a lot of weekly wash customers. As my business has grown though, I find I have less time for maintenance plans and washes. I`m down to two customers who are on a maintenance plan (and have been since 1995) and a few weekly wash customers. I average more per hour doing details and Opti-Coat applications so obviously I`d rather do those. However, between the maintenance plans and regular wash customers, that`s what really got my name out. I think most of us have found as our client base grows, we can focus more on the detailing/paint correction side of the business and as regular wash/maintenance customers move out of the area, opt for just 1-2 a year details or even die off, you don`t need to fill those holes with similar work, you can now do more jobs that pay better.

[Nth Degree]

To be quite honest, I no longer have to actively search for new customers, my customers give me so many referrals, along with repeat business, people I know through car forums, etc that my business now pretty much markets itself.



When I first started off, I did have maintenance plans and a lot of weekly wash customers. As my business has grown though, I find I have less time for maintenance plans and washes. I`m down to two customers who are on a maintenance plan (and have been since 1995) and a few weekly wash customers. I average more per hour doing details and Opti-Coat applications so obviously I`d rather do those. However, between the maintenance plans and regular wash customers, that`s what really got my name out. I think most of us have found as our client base grows, we can focus more on the detailing/paint correction side of the business and as regular wash/maintenance customers move out of the area, opt for just 1-2 a year details or even die off, you don`t need to fill those holes with similar work, you can now do more jobs that pay better.

I am not quite at the same point yet, and I only have a couple of regular wash customers. I have, however, considered what I will do when I get to the point of having to choose to drop the smaller jobs or hire help to handle the routine jobs. Just wondering if you have considered that or if anyone else is at that point. Sorry if this gets the thread off topic.

[imported_Quenga]

I tell all my customers up front that I only wash/maintain because I have the time. That once I`m busy enough, I won`t be able to continue with a maintenance plan. They completely understand and believe they are getting a great deal until then.



My one thought was to hire/train 1-2 guys and send them out for locations that can handle a maintenance plan. 1 customer in 1 neighborhood, no way. It`s not even profitable for me. But, with things like ONR/Opti-Clean/Garry Dean Wash Method...stick these guys in a little Civic hatchback or something with the just the capabilities for maintenance washing. Done.



I would use a pre-paid program so they aren`t giving money to the employees, just tips. You would absolutely have to have them fill up a day or you couldn`t retain them or make money off maintenance washing. Eco-friendly washing is making this part of the market possible, you just need a good location with plenty of neighbors to it done. Possible, yes. Probable?... I`m still working on that.



The biggest hassle is whether they are employees or contractors. They can steal your business, so you`d have to keep customers loyal. College students are great for this type of work. They want something that`s easy, makes decent money (give them commission if they can sell something like Opti-Seal/OCW...easy and quick upgrade) and they want to feel independent, but like someone relies on them. I`ve managed all sorts of people and when you can get a decent college kid out on his own truck by himself with incentives to do good for the business, they outperform their peers. I used to supervise a crew of delivery drivers and you only got promoted to be a driver if you could prove your independence and responsibility.



Also, if I get to this point, I think a shop would be justified. Maybe even sell detailing products at the store front. Have them come to you. I`ve had a few people say they were willing to come to me for a wash if I wasn`t mobile. I never expected that, but it`s happened. I even had a customer tell me I could come pick up her car, take it home and wash it there if it was easier on me. Waste of time though.

[imported_Quenga]

To be quite honest, I no longer have to actively search for new customers, my customers give me so many referrals, along with repeat business, people I know through car forums, etc that my business now pretty much markets itself.



When I first started off, I did have maintenance plans and a lot of weekly wash customers. As my business has grown though, I find I have less time for maintenance plans and washes. I`m down to two customers who are on a maintenance plan (and have been since 1995) and a few weekly wash customers. I average more per hour doing details and Opti-Coat applications so obviously I`d rather do those. However, between the maintenance plans and regular wash customers, that`s what really got my name out. I think most of us have found as our client base grows, we can focus more on the detailing/paint correction side of the business and as regular wash/maintenance customers move out of the area, opt for just 1-2 a year details or even die off, you don`t need to fill those holes with similar work, you can now do more jobs that pay better.

So, it may be more helpful for new guys or those looking to expand operations. I would not stay in detailing if I was a one man or 1 car operation. I`m not looking to open up a car wash and sell $5/washes though. I like providing the quality that I do.



My mind is buzzing with information and ideas. Hmm....

[Scottwax]

I am not quite at the same point yet, and I only have a couple of regular wash customers. I have, however, considered what I will do when I get to the point of having to choose to drop the smaller jobs or hire help to handle the routine jobs. Just wondering if you have considered that or if anyone else is at that point. Sorry if this gets the thread off topic.

I thought about it but that adds the issues that come along with having employees go out to a location without me. Hard to ensure your standards are being followed unless you are there or have time to regularly pop in on them to see if they are doing the work right. Thats the thing with this business, the further you are from the work being done, the less likely its being done correctly. And those who really have a passion for detailing won`t stay with you very long before they head out on their own.

[maxepr1]

^^^^^ Bingo! Paid on the job training, then they take your customers off on there own!! Been there done that!

[SVR]

well said Scott.