Why don`t detailers sell warranties? You are losing $$.

[imported_Quenga]

I`ve sold a lot of Opti-Coat jobs but I have not implied a warranty on one of them. I tell them the simple truth...



I tell all my clients the above, maybe not always in those exact words, but the point of my post is that offering a warranty really has zero benefits to my clients and I see no point in making an additional profit on something they don`t need. I charge them a price for the application the covers my time, the product, and an amount that I feel the product is worth based on 2+ years of my own testing/experience with it.



I`ve also had several clients come back for a repolish this summer on cars that were coated 12-24 months prior. All of them were still beading like day one but they all had swirls and needed correction to the point that it compromised the coating. So what possible benefit would an additional warranty offer them???



I also had one client come back in where the car actually looked pretty good with only very light marring, but it had heavy bonded surface defects and some water spot/staining on a section of the hood and fender. I was able to bring life back to it with some TarX and IronX, but the water spotting would not come out with 2 applications of CG Water Spot Remover and would have required polishing. If I`m reading it correctly this would have been a warranty claim under the new OPT warranty policy, and the labor would have been on my dime. Instead, I`m now going to get paid to fix it at a later date when the client is ready for a repolish and recoat.



Now I`ve seen David argue that if the client only uses touch-less washes that the paint should never get swirled or scratched...I`m simply not seeing it that way, at least not in the snow belt states. Beside the fact that they don`t get the cars clean, one need to remember that our cars get covered in sand and salt and people brush against their cars getting in and out of them, walking by them in parking lots, and I don`t think I really even need to mention brushing the snow off of a dirty car. My experience has show the average time between my clients needing polishing is about 18-24 months. So again, What value does a lift-time warranty, or any warranty offer my clients?



Just my $.02

Hey, I`ll take a whole dollar of knowledge if you got it!



Why not do what C. Charles Hahn does and offer a service like "Opti-Coat Annual Inspection". But, include it in the price up front. Instead of charging them $200 to install and hoping they come back a year later and pay $75 for an inspection, charge them $275 and say you`ll inspect it a year later. Also, as CCH states, decontamination/polishing is still extra.



Take the extra $75 and throw it into an investment. You`re offering the same service, but selling it as a warranty and enticing them to come back in a year for a pre-paid inspection.



Time value of money is a difficult thing to teach in just a few posts on a forum. People don`t invest into retirement until they are older, but if they invested that $20/month they spend on Starbucks, they`d come out stronger in the end. Time value/interest compounding.



Albert Einstein called compounding "the greatest mathematical discovery of all time". I think detailers should take advantage of it, and one of the ways I am suggesting that is a "warranty" program. You can call it a pre-paid service if you like.



Maybe that`s a better idea. Do you think a pre-paid service is unethical? Is this the new direction I should take this? I wouldn`t have thought of that without asking the question. Thanks everyone! New ideas every post!

[IHA Mark]

I appreciate your thoughtfulness and the amount of effort you have put into this thread, I really do.



I think some of the friction you are facing with this idea, even from myself, is caused by the "unknown" factor that comes with these products and warranties. Most true pro`s at this business have spent or will spend their whole career`s building their reputation, and the thought of even the possibility of risking that is terrifying. Remember, most of us on here are lone operators or small operations and a few bad reviews can mean the difference between make or break.



On another somewhat unrelated note from what Rustytruck said, I`m actually looking to ramp up my mobile wash side of the business, I make more money doing washes than some detail packages.

[imported_Quenga]

Yeah, I understand. It`s why I`m trying to use scenarios to retrain everyone`s way of thinking about it. This doesn`t have to be a negative issue and we don`t have to lower our quality or reputation to make it a success.



I`ve already started offering warranties on stuff. Not everyone bites, you won`t always catch a fish, but if you never fish you`ll never catch anything.



I can stand to fail, I`m not worried about it. I love detailing, but I`m young enough to be set back a few times or have my business ruined. I`m not worried about my reputation really. Professionalism can kill a lot of negativity and attract others. I chose my Chiropractor after he responded to a few bad reviews on Yelp. At the time they had less than 20-30 reviews. They are reaching into 200 and more now. Their business grew dramatically and he said it a lot of it had to do with his responses on the Yelp page. I told him that`s why I chose him and that`s when he told me how successful it`s been for him.



"I haven`t failed, I`ve found 10,000 ways that didn`t work." ~ Thomas Edison.





I can risk failure, I can be a test dummy, I will be OK if this turns into nothing. Everyone`s input is appreciated. I`m not a very cynical or pessimistic person, so sometimes I`m blinded by the shiny lights I stare at.

[RaskyR1]

Well it really doesn`t fit my business as I`m only part time now and I only offer correction with no interest in doing maintenance washes. In the above scenario though it seems like you are selling them more on a maintenance package then a warranty, which I can see benefit in if you run a full service shop. I just don`t see where the warranty comes in, as you said it yourself, they warranty really doesn`t cover jack.





In my scenario I see my clinets every 12-24 months, get paid $350+ for the paint correction plus another $150 for the coating reapp, and I don`t have to be burdened with warranty claims. I`m honest and upfront with my clients which is what keeps them coming back to me, not some terms of a warranty they have to abide by.





I do see were you are coming from in a lot of this discussion, it`s simply not for me and I`m just answering your OP as to why I don`t offer them. Detailing for me is a passion and it`s not all about money like it is for some. I have a full time career and I`m happy where I`m at in life. Obviously I`m not going to do it for free though, as my time and experience is still worth something at the end of the day.



Cheers, :tea:

Rasky

[imported_Quenga]

On another somewhat unrelated note from what Rustytruck said, I`m actually looking to ramp up my mobile wash side of the business, I make more money doing washes than some detail packages.

Without getting off-topic, I think some people could benefit from a down day by offering washes. Stick outside a corporate location and flag people down. Sell a wash, throw in a business card/pamphlet/flyer and personalized quote for several of your services. On a busy day I`ve estimated a chance to make double what I make detailing with a helper. Theories only, but that`s all I`m really doing right now. Testing new ideas!

[Nth Degree]

I like this thread because it does raise good points of contention a thought. While you are not wrong in your thinking about the financial benefit of it all, I think it just doesn`t apply well to many of the small businesses that most of us are. There is a certain factor that is often not documented; buyer`s remorse. If they feel duped by the deal on a warranty, a company rarely hears about it. They just never hear anything, which in their minds mean the warranty hasn`t been needed.



Quenga,



Your camera is a good example of when a warranty makes sense. When regular maintenance is included it is an obvious choice. Diamond Jewelry and laptop computers are other good examples since replacing one stone or battery will likely cost the same as the warranty anyway.



Your paradigm is a bit different than many here as well in the sense that you are in it for the short term to make money. Once you move on, who is on the hook for your warranties?

[imported_Quenga]

Well it really doesn`t fit my business as I`m only part time now and I only offer correction with no interest in doing maintenance washes. In the above scenario though it seems like you are selling them more on a maintenance package then a warranty, which I can see benefit in if you run a full service shop. I just don`t see where the warranty comes in, as you said it yourself, they warranty really doesn`t cover jack.





In my scenario I see my clinets every 12-24 months, get paid $350+ for the paint correction plus another $150 for the coating reapp, and I don`t have to be burdened with warranty claims. I`m honest and upfront with my clients which is what keeps them coming back to me, not some terms of a warranty they have to abide by.





I do see were you are coming from in a lot of this discussion, it`s simply not for me and I`m just answering your OP as to why I don`t offer them. Detailing for me is a passion and it`s not all about money like it is for some. I have a full time career and I`m happy where I`m at in life. Obviously I`m not going to do it for free though, as my time and experience is still worth something at the end of the day.



Cheers, :tea:

Rasky

OK, forget the idea of a warranty. I had an idea in my head, that`s what it sounded like, I went with it. I`m now thinking pre-paid discounts.



You see your clients every 2 years, why not offer them a discount on a pre-paid service? Collect now, pay out later. If they have buyer`s remorse and you wish to refund their money, you can. In the meantime, YOU earned interest on that money.



This is the same concept of why it takes banks 3-4 days to transfer the money and why credit card companies take 2-3 days to pay merchants. The average floating balance of all these "awaiting payments" can accrue millions in interest every year. There`s a benefit and a downside to every service. Merchants make more money by accepting credit cards, but they pay a small fee for it. I don`t see anyone complaining about that! Pay a 3% fee to make an extra $100, I`ll do it.



For someone with smaller operations, neither of these ideas make sense for you. The benefit is not there, but we could be onto something. For larger companies, there`s definitely a benefit. That`s why car wash companies sell pre-paid wash cards, why gift certificates are free and why retailers love layaway.

I like this thread because it does raise good points of contention a thought. While you are not wrong in your thinking about the financial benefit of it all, I think it just doesn`t apply well to many of the small businesses that most of us are. There is a certain factor that is often not documented; buyer`s remorse. If they feel duped by the deal on a warranty, a company rarely hears about it. They just never hear anything, which in their minds mean the warranty hasn`t been needed.



Quenga,



Your camera is a good example of when a warranty makes sense. When regular maintenance is included it is an obvious choice. Diamond Jewelry and laptop computers are other good examples since replacing one stone or battery will likely cost the same as the warranty anyway.



Your paradigm is a bit different than many here as well in the sense that you are in it for the short term to make money. Once you move on, who is on the hook for your warranties?

Buyer`s remorse, refund their money. No harm done to them, but you collected interest in the meantime. I have a savings account for every headlight restoration I do and don`t count it as income. There`s some fancy accounting behind it, but that`s not my job, that`s why I pay a CPA. They figure this stuff out for me.



You can include a regular maintenance, you can include a polish, wax, coating...whatever you like. The idea I have is not to screw over any customer. Offer them a benefit, and make money on it in the meantime.





Also, I warrant all my services, even if I go out of business or lose money doing so. My word is a lot stronger than any contract you can sign. I`ve only sold a few and they asked the same question. Answer: Even if I`m out of business, I`ll do it as a civilian. If I move or can`t complete the service, I`ll refund your money or pay another detailer to fix it. Again, I have a savings account and records of those I`ve sold "warrantied" services to.





I`m not here to make short term money and run. I`ll never quit detailing, I love this stuff. But, I probably won`t always be able to handle it full time. I don`t know what the future holds, but I`m not waiting for the chance to make money. I will never screw over a customer. I offer a money-back guarantee and stand by it. I will lose those battles when they come, but the odds are still in my favor. Shady companies that aren`t prepared for it go under. Look at Groupon/Living Social. They came in, stole from small business and now they are seeing the backlash of their unethical behavior. But, how long have we seen the Penny Saver with coupons? They are still doing OK 50 years later.



We are in the business of detailing because we offer a better service than dealerships/car washes. Why not offer a better warranty or pre-paid program? If you`re not selling gift cards, you can be losing out on money. Take the money, invest it into a liquid asset and if they want a refund, give it to them. In the meantime, you earned interest off their money. You already make cash deposits into the bank, you can write them a check and have them pick it up. Almost no time wasted on your part.



All ideas. I`m glad I asked the question!

[(901)]

Here is some things to consider that we have all heard, youngin`s usually are not privy to these statememnts or sayings as they do not have years on their "Life odometer".



1. "There is a sucker born every minute"

2. "The check`s in the mail"

3. "Trust me I know what`s best"

4. "Get the second product free..........just pay seperate shipping & handling"

You left off ....."Guaranteed Results"



:chuckle:

[autoconcierge]

I will use a totally non-related analogy, there was a cartoon next to the squat rack at a old gym I attended which showed a fit but small guy asking a huge guy what he did for legs...................the fit guy says" I do drop sets, partials, decending partials blah,blah.



The huge guy responds "Squats with big weight"................................ my point is you can think outside the box and try real hard to come up with things you think nobody has ever thought of(But people have) and you want to get to another level, first concentrate on being ABLE to deliver what you promise and have interaction for more than a little while with clients.



Maybe it is already time to get back behind that desk and think "White collar" instead of Tony Robbins wearing a Blue Collar(However I could be wrong as what do I know) ............this version is way more "Nicee nice" than what I was going to post before.



This is not to dash free creative thinking at all, but "Majoring in the minors" only will have you spinning your wheels at all the ways you can make extra money at detailing when the basics need to be mastered first.

[David Fermani]

David,



Who do you consider to be the most successful in the industry?



I consider myself to be pretty successful and I don`t offer a warranty of any kind.

Richie – That’s an excellent statement, but defining success is a very broad term in this industry and wears many hats. I think a lot of people are successful. Especially you as a high end paint correctionist which I totally admire for. You’ve accomplished a great reputation as being a hardcore perfectionist in the field of paint correction and are truly among the best. I also feel people like Bob Willis, Todd Cooperider, Scottwax, Thomas Dekany & RickRack are very successful too in different and similar ways respectably. But that’s just one aspect of the industry. And there are also other people/companies that are on the top of their game, but cater to an entirely different sector of the market. Drilling in even more regarding the topic of this thread (vehicle protection warranties), there are 2 companies that I am very familiar with that I feel are truly successful. 1- Great Lakes Chemical: Parent Company: Great Lakes Companies | Kalamazoo, MI 49006 Reconditioning Center: Car Detailing Kalamazoo, MI, Grand Rapids | GL Chemical - Great Lakes Chemical 2- Crystal Clean Detailing: Home - Crystal Clean Auto Detailing LLC



Both companies have taken dealer reconditioning to an entirely different level and I can honestly say that I feel they are successful at what they do. They don’t cater to perfection nor do they really even need to as that isn’t prevalent in their territory. And that’s what is important to success in my eyes. Catering to the market the best way you can and capitalizing on it to the maximum potential. This same concept doesn’t work in every detailing market, but if everyone can understand that there is a huge dynamic of differences in this industry then we all might have more respect for one another based on these differences.

[Ron Ketcham]

If I can make it, at Wednesday Night Chat, I will explain the "insurance" side, and how one sets it up, legally, how the basics work for a legitimate "vehicle warranty" business, be it as being discussed or other portions of the industry.

May also touch on why some that were "big" in the paint/interior/rust/undercoat business for years just faded away at their own choice.

Not here, only in the Wednesday Night Chat Room.

Grumpy

[David Fermani]

Good stuff Ron. You bring alot of real world knowledge and experience to the table. People interested in this topic should definately attend the chat to get a better understanding on this subject. This would really make a great topic for conversation.

[C. Charles Hahn]

Hey, I`ll take a whole dollar of knowledge if you got it!



Why not do what C. Charles Hahn does and offer a service like "Opti-Coat Annual Inspection". But, include it in the price up front. Instead of charging them $200 to install and hoping they come back a year later and pay $75 for an inspection, charge them $275 and say you`ll inspect it a year later. Also, as CCH states, decontamination/polishing is still extra.



Take the extra $75 and throw it into an investment. You`re offering the same service, but selling it as a warranty and enticing them to come back in a year for a pre-paid inspection.



Time value of money is a difficult thing to teach in just a few posts on a forum. People don`t invest into retirement until they are older, but if they invested that $20/month they spend on Starbucks, they`d come out stronger in the end. Time value/interest compounding.



Albert Einstein called compounding "the greatest mathematical discovery of all time". I think detailers should take advantage of it, and one of the ways I am suggesting that is a "warranty" program. You can call it a pre-paid service if you like.



Maybe that`s a better idea. Do you think a pre-paid service is unethical? Is this the new direction I should take this? I wouldn`t have thought of that without asking the question. Thanks everyone! New ideas every post!

Well since you brought it up, I`ll tell you why I *don`t* (at least currently) offer annual inspections on Opti-Coat as a pre-paid service:



1) For many people, it`s difficult for them to know what they`ll be doing a year into the future. I`d rather tell them "I recommend having the coating inspected and bonded contaminants removed annually, so either come back to me or find another authorized installer to have this service performed" than to collect money that is non-transferable if they happen to move out of the area or get busy and don`t end up making the followup appointment. One of the reasons I`m comfortable doing this is that I`m the only authorized installer in my area; the next closest is 50+ miles away. They can`t just take it to any detailer in town and have them be familiar with the coating and how to provide aftercare for it.



2) Pre-paid services add administrative complexity that I as a one-man operation am not interested in incurring.



2a) First of all, from an accounting and tax perspective I would have to create a separate entry for $75 as unearned revenue and track it as a deferred tax liability -- and in the event that someone never comes back, I then have to go through the process of writing off the liability and deal with the tax implications of that.



2b) Secondly, from an ethical standpoint I would feel compelled to keep on top of clients to make sure they actually do schedule their followup appointment because I already have their money. When I simply offer the service as a "recommended followup" I send an email and/or a post-card to the client around the time they`re due for an inspection reminding them to book an appointment. If they don`t do it, that`s their choice. If I am holding their money, though, I`m not just going to send one email/card and forget about it, I`m going to want to keep chasing after the person multiple times to make an appointment. That could end up taking quite a bit of time and/or money that I simply am not interested in spending as it could quickly negate any gains I might have made through interest income.



Pre-paid services are a great idea, sure, but when it comes to a service like this they only make sense on a shorter timetable (pay monthly for weekly washes, etc.) in my opinion.



That said, I am planning to take a very close look at the way Optimum`s warranty program is set up to see what the coverage looks like, what the requirements of installers and clients are, and also who bears what portion of the liability and administrative burden. If things appear advantageous, I will probably opt in. We`ll see what shakes out once everything has been fully released for review.

[rustytruck]

We clean cars and polish paint. This thread is starting to beat a dead horse. I`m signing off.

[Nth Degree]

2) Pre-paid services add administrative complexity that I as a one-man operation am not interested in incurring.

Outstanding point, Charlie. This and your sub-points on it are well thought out.