Attention: Detailers that only offer Full Corrections.....

[justin30513]

If one is completing jobs in just a "Few hours" as in let`s say 3.5-4.0 hours your average is roughly $114.00 per and I know that "Top quality" work is not being completed by ANYone`s standards.

My 150.00 details take me 3 hours by myself. I`m getting paid and they keep coming back so I guess I`m up to the customer`s standards and that`s all that matters.



It`s all on how you sell your services. You can do this well if you listen to the customer and not your own ego.

[sacdetailing]

$700-800 for multiple days.................... now who is leaving money on the table?? $75 per hour x 8 = 600 x 2 = $1,200 where most "Full correction jobs really take 20 hours plus in reality.............at least in my shop. So let`s review 75.00 per hour x 20 = $1,500.00 mixed in with occasional $150-450 dollar jobs have me doing just fine, but of course if you have MUCH lower overhead then the smaller jobs are going to fit the bill.



Btw full corrections in my shop also include "Full Interior correction" as well thus the time spent factor.Like most pro automotive business models I charge as a time spent basis, just as all mechanical jobs are billed sans the parts and only labor, smaller jobs are considered "Canned jobs" as they are known in the automotive industry where you factor in a pre set time model in the estimate, it is also known as "Menu pricing" which is fine as long as a 30-0% gross profit margin is maintained which is different than mark up from cost and a factor is used.



If one is completing jobs in just a "Few hours" as in let`s say 3.5-4.0 hours your average is roughly $114.00 per and I know that "Top quality" work is not being completed by ANYone`s standards.

Hey guys common! he wasn`t talking about all of people! he was just saying to most of the people. if this is working out for you were all very happy. plus you and me are from California and everything is more expensive here unlike other states. even clean 30 bucks an hour is not "little" compared to most of the jobs out there. Hope you got my point and am not trying to be rude. If your like Paul Dalton (he charges 70 bucks an hour) and making money and happy congratulations am happy for you but i cant do that i have different situation just like many of us here. We have to find other ways for making money.

[justin30513]

NOBODY`S business model is the same as another business owner. Every area is different. Every advertising budget is too. The wants and needs are different as well. Get what I`m saying here? We are all different!



David was just saying to be open if you`re struggling or looking to expand. Bob, you obviously do not fall into either of these categories.....but I do like the breakdown and math.

[autoconcierge]

My 150.00 details take me 3 hours by myself. I`m getting paid and they keep coming back so I guess I`m up to the customer`s standards and that`s all that matters.



It`s all on how you sell your services. You can do this well if you listen to the customer and not your own ego.

Have not paid any bills that I have from the bank of "EGO", it is what my customers have come to expect from me. Three hours can do a car that is maintained often, but for any work to really make a difference you need more time than that however I am old/fatness so I am limited I guess.

[justin30513]

Have not paid any bills that I have from the bank of "EGO", it is what my customers have come to expect from me. Three hours can do a car that is maintained often, but for any work to really make a difference you need more time than that however I am old/fatness so I am limited I guess.

Just to clarify, when I said EGO, I was talking to all detailers and no one in specific.



I`m sure as time and wear on my body progresses, I will have to take more time to complete a task. This is why I`m hiring and training a manager first. Other employees will come.

[gigondaz]

10yrs ago, I started out solo in my own garage+mobile.

Did the usual simple, low-priced jobs for non-enthusiast customers.

They squeezed my *** for the lowest possible price, and lots of explanation needed till my mouth ran dry, and the cars were mostly crappy. Lots of work, and even while working on the car, I kept thinking of the "low-price" + the amount of work needed on these crappy cars. Groan.

But....it was necessary....for mere survival....and the customers certainly got their money`s worth!!!!!!



Of course there were the occasional full-correction jobs, but customers would turn to the high-end fellas for it.



My main concern was:

There was no assurance/stability of income.

It was inconsistent/sporadic.

Don`t know what`s happening next week. Nada. Could be totally quiet....:frown1::frown1:

Or a customer might cancel the appointment...and I`ve bills to pay.

Can`t go on living like this from day to day.



Then, I started my shop, focusing exclusively on high-end jobs, and it took 6mths to build my name.



My high-end customers come back for washes, and then, maintenance detailing every 1mth. I sell them a package + detailing products (which are labelled with owner`s name and kept in my shop). Therefore, I`m able to "keep" my customers tied to me, and the maintenance schedule ensures a steady stream of cars coming back to my place consistently and regularly. This kind of "higher quality" customers also recommend other similar type of customers to me. 8mths later, I moved to a newer bigger premise, and hv never looked back.



They are willing/able to pay the high price = Less talking, less explaining, no price haggling.



These are the customers who expect us to clean even the 1.5" thick Merc owners manual + the First Aid Kit and its contents!!!

On such big budget jobs, I personally enjoy working on that car even more as I know the huge price involved and based on the "mechanics" of my detailing package, that car will have to return every month for maintenance.



At this moment, my only objective is to do jobs that will elicit ooohhs and ahhhs from the customerzz:

[justin30513]

10yrs ago, I started out solo in my own garage+mobile.

Did the usual simple, low-priced jobs for non-enthusiast customers.

They squeezed my *** for the lowest possible price, and lots of explanation needed till my mouth ran dry, and the cars were mostly crappy. Lots of work, and even while working on the car, I kept thinking of the "low-price" + the amount of work needed on these crappy cars. Groan.

But....it was necessary....for mere survival....and the customers certainly got their money`s worth!!!!!!



Of course there were the occasional full-correction jobs, but customers would turn to the high-end fellas for it.



My main concern was:

There was no assurance/stability of income.

It was inconsistent/sporadic.

Don`t know what`s happening next week. Nada. Could be totally quiet....:frown1::frown1:

Or a customer might cancel the appointment...and I`ve bills to pay.

Can`t go on living like this from day to day.



Then, I started my shop, focusing exclusively on high-end jobs, and it took 6mths to build my name.



My high-end customers come back for washes, and then, maintenance detailing every 1mth. I sell them a package + detailing products (which are labelled with owner`s name and kept in my shop). Therefore, I`m able to "keep" my customers tied to me, and the maintenance schedule ensures a steady stream of cars coming back to my place consistently and regularly. This kind of "higher quality" customers also recommend other similar type of customers to me. 8mths later, I moved to a newer bigger premise, and hv never looked back.



They are willing/able to pay the high price = Less talking, less explaining, no price haggling.



These are the customers who expect us to clean even the 1.5" thick Merc owners manual + the First Aid Kit and its contents!!!

On such big budget jobs, I personally enjoy working on that car even more as I know the huge price involved and based on the "mechanics" of my detailing package, that car will have to return every month for maintenance.



At this moment, my only objective is to do jobs that will elicit ooohhs and ahhhs from the customerzz:

Love this explanation! You took a problem and solved it. The good thing is, you are in an area that warrants this change. Some aren`t though. Some may be and just don`t know it. Some here might have to go the other way though. They want to work on the high end cars but there are only so many in their area.....like me. And it`s just not the cars.....it`s the owners. I have a few high end cars that need a ton of work but the owners do not want to let go of the cash.....and they have it!



You just have to do some demographics and target the market that your area yields. One just can`t list their number in Yellow Book and sit by the phone. No matter what your business model it, you have to get off your arse and get in front of people!!!

[autoconcierge]

NOBODY`S business model is the same as another business owner. Every area is different. Every advertising budget is too. The wants and needs are different as well. Get what I`m saying here? We are all different!



David was just saying to be open if you`re struggling or looking to expand. Bob, you obviously do not fall into either of these categories.....but I do like the breakdown and math.

When making a generalized point with no specific person(s) in mind the above statement would be fine, but we all know this is just not the case here. In 1994 when I started the business I took on everything I could get my hands on, in addition I would also be more flexible with pricing as I was getting established to the customer base in my immediate area and the SF Bay area as a whole.



I had at one time two trucks and three employees as I thought if people were trained properly I could do a "Mini franchise" of myself and expand, thus with the high production I could generate more income and conventional wisdom says this should work, however no matter how much I trained and after going thru over seven different combos of people with every kind of incentive known to man I could not overcome the laziness and other shortcomings the guy`s who worked with me had.



We all see the dealerships and the level of work performed irregardless of the marque, IE: high end "Ferrari" or lower cost vehicles the presentation of the new car purchase is not up to par, this is because it is "High production" level work done by ill trained and un-motivated employees. Also I differ in my approach as I could not look myself in the mirror in the morning if I charged way more money while providing work not comenserate with the final invoice, some may feel this is good "Business" and perfectly fine and well........and we all know it is not.



So let`s be clear, if you want high production in this occupation you WILL be making compromises in everything, from chemicals to personel to your facility or mobile set-up if applicable. This is the reason most people view this trade as a "Lowend" occupation and pricing is also hard to maintain because a "Correction" or "Detail" is not a permanent situation such as putting on a tire and wheel package or engine modification.



My personality warrants the direction I went in and is not the solution for everyone, as a matter of fact if you have the rescources you can offer both the "Perfection level work" along with one or two step details, but in the past most customers no matter how hard you try to tell them beforehand will still say something like this "Oh....I though you would take care of this/that?" even though you went over EXACTLY what was going to be done, so for me I seek out customers that are looking for someone like me who does more on every job and are fine with knowing that that level of quality is labor entensive with pricing that reflects this.



So enough of the bashing of guys like me, you do not see me posting threads like "For all of you newbies doing cheapo jobs.........you suck in so many words" everyone`s demographic is different as Justin said, however a foudation of good skills paired with integrity may not always produce riches but always pays off in reputation which at the end of the day is all you really have, of course you cannot pay bills with "Reputation" but charging more when you do not do more is just wrong....endstop.

[sparklescarwash]

I would just like to say for most of us take what u can get. You have to realize the econ is in bad shape. People r losing the houses. We r considered a luxery not a have to.I have been in this buisness a long time seen lots of buisness close. So stay humble.You have to realise if you wont some body will

[imported_Ivan Rajic]

Bob, I run my business with the same mindset as you. I never went through a "do anything I can get my hands on" phase and I never had employees, trucks, etc. I am self trained, always worked alone, but sometimes had helpers on interiors, wheels, etc. I also seek out the exact same clients and have been blessed to have them and rarely get contacted by a price shopper. However, here in Chicago, the demand for such quality is nowhere near that of Cali. In some of our richer suburbs, such detailing MAY succeed on a full-time level. I have been lucky enough for detailing to be my 2nd job and still produce a good income, but surviving on my level of detailing alone would be cutting it close to be perfectly honest.



I`m typing all this to let you know that this post makes perfect sense for myself and the current status of my business. I have made a great reputation for myself here in Chicago as well as nationwide (have clients in a few different states) but I am in fact missing out on WAY too much work by charging what I do and working at the level at which I work. Tons of people around Chicago will pay $150-200 for a 1-step polish detail plus interior vacuum, windows, wipedown deal, but they won`t hear of anything $250+, which is what I charge. For this reason David`s post is a perfect explanation of my status if I were full time detailing and relying on it 100%. The post didn`t open up my eyes or anything as I`ve felt that way for well over a year now and wanted to somehow incorporate an "economy job" to my service arsenal, but it does in a way confirm what I have been thinking.



I don`t know the background of David`s intentions for this post, but it`s a post that directly connects to many of us high end detailers that aren`t in an area with enough demand for high quality work, as Justin explained. I don`t know David or you personally, but equally have respect for your work online. That said, if you`re offended by the post and equally if he meant to offend you, that should all be PM material due to the fact this is a good, informative post for many people.

[Scottwax]

I would just like to say for most of us take what u can get. You have to realize the econ is in bad shape. People r losing the houses. We r considered a luxery not a have to.I have been in this buisness a long time seen lots of buisness close. So stay humble.You have to realise if you wont some body will

Agreed. In the current economic climate, you may have to adjust accordingly or find yourself out of business. To those who can maintain a full schedule doing nothing but concourse level corrections, my hats off to you. However, I`ve been finding more and more people in my area are happy with just a good deep cleaning and shiny and protected paint over the last couple of years. I`d say maybe 10% of my customers are interested in something beyond a basic one polishing step detail and that 10% isn`t enough to keep me in business. Besides, I do make my customers aware of the various levels of correction so in the future, that may be something that interests them or maybe they know someone who would like that level of work done and will recommend me.

[justin30513]

Bob in no way was I bashing you. I was commending you.



I see as if someone wants to shop at Macys....they come to you.

If they want to shop at Wal Mart...they come to me.



They both know what they are paying as we both educate our customers. I don`t hold any guns to their heads when they say yes to my prices and services over and over.

I don`t know why you got an attitude with me when I was actually bragging on how you targeted your market. Why don`t you post some tips up for those who want to target the high end market? That would really help.

[autoconcierge]

Bob in no way was I bashing you. I was commending you.



I see as if someone wants to shop at Macys....they come to you.

If they want to shop at Wal Mart...they come to me.



They both know what they are paying as we both educate our customers. I don`t hold any guns to their heads when they say yes to my prices and services over and over.

I don`t know why you got an attitude with me when I was actually bragging on how you targeted your market. Why don`t you post some tips up for those who want to target the high end market? That would really help.

Just to clarify the post was meant to help guy`s but in the post "Detailers that only offer Full corrections" was also a focused diss on Richie and myself(alot of you do not know what is being said behind the scenes and Dave now I know exactly where the idea for you to comment in this way came from.....fellow Orlando detailer to Richie based on what Richie discussed with him on a GT3 client).



Justin there is no magic pill or steps, just a foundation of having good to great correction skill foremost coupled with a pro presentation on how you look, how your mobile set-up looks or fixed location is applicable.



Other things include going to where the cars in the segment you want to service(car shows, concours, local meets, your local track events. If there are Country Clubs or gated communitys most have a newsletter of some type, advertise in them, also if you are trying to establish your service make sure your signage on the mobile vehicle looks good and is easily readable.



Now of course there are forums, sponsor one if the budget allows although during the nineties there was no computer media for me to market myself so the aforementioned things were what was needed at the time, and without overstating the obvious just do killer level work and the word WILL spread but it takes time in most cases a couple of years usually.



I have had a few people make fun of my uniform, and think I am a arrogant a**, but when you go to a dealership or see other respected trades(police/fire/medical etc..)they are wearing a uniform because it tells people you are serious and not there looking like you just came from a BBQ or ballgame, when I was in the Navy having my uniform looking "Squared away" allowed me to work on Admiral`s staff and on the Nuclear weapons handling team on the ammunition supply ship I was stationed on, also the honor guard in my reserve billet after active duty.



Detailing & correction are "Visual" componets of the automotive trade, so the better you make the car(s) look and the better you present yourself the better your chances in landing well to do clientale....hope this helps.

[afreelife4me]

Whether you are a professional who does this for a living, or a part time guy who just does it for fun and some extra cash; target the market you think is most profitable and position your product to best serve that market. Then, spend your time figuring out the best way to effectively market to the people in your target market. Worrying about what others are doing, or not doing is not going to help much with your success.

I agree with you here Brad... we are all perfectionists.. thats why we are on this site... always looking for better and faster results for our customers.. and for years i have been pushing myself harder and harder on how to acheive perfection in a reasonable amount of time.



and it does boil down to your customer base.. my market seems to be the middle class mom and pops with their mini vans and honda accords... i get my occasional high end customer but to be honest i dont like working for them..yeah the money is there but the reaction i get from my mom and pop customers make it all worth it for me... when i leave that job i feel a sense of accomplisment because of how i just made them feel.. and these are the customers that cannot stop talking about me.. i can detail my one customers 100,000 car and he will just hand a check.. shake my hand and not even inspect it.. i feel like i just wasted my time and energy without even a pat on the back.. its not a good feeling.. its the same feeling i had when i worked for the big corporatoins and worked hard and someone else reaped the benifits.





as far as the washes and not taking other work besides detailing... i have turned down some customers because its hard for me to take a low paying car wash job when i know i got full details coming in every day and my calendar is booked weeks in advance.. and just recently i fired all my help and back to being a one man show because i am so much happier doing things by myself and doing the job right!!!

[brwill2005]

To expand on Bob`s comments above; all the things he mentioned about having the proper uniform, professional looking vehicle etc. contribute to customer confidence in you and your business. Confidence is the number one reason people buy from a company. If people have confidence in you, they will be willing to pay top dollar for a quality service.