2step polishing.

**Toymachine2009** · 10-27-2010, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by toyotaguy

scratch that process....

PC with orange and 105, then white and menzerna 203

205 sucks IMO. never leaves the paint good enough to finish down with any pad on the PC, and with a rotary and the "non-deminishing abrasives", its awefully hard to finish down hologram free.

wash, clay, 105/203/CGEZCG/wax is my go to process

however, on black, I alway finish down with 85rd no matter the previous process

I was working on a Mustang GT today and I think I noticed what you meant how there were holograms I did M105 on Orange via DA and M205 on White via DA and at different angles I could see these holograms.. So the 203 your talking about is it Menzerna Power Finish PO203S?

If so I think I need to try some of that my car I did not see holorgrams but this mustang I do..

**sacdetailing** · 10-27-2010, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by toymachine2009

I was working on a Mustang GT today and I think I noticed what you meant how there were holograms I did M105 on Orange via DA and M205 on White via DA and at different angles I could see these holograms.. So the 203 your talking about is it Menzerna Power Finish PO203S?

If so I think I need to try some of that my car I did not see holorgrams but this mustang I do..

i hope you didn`t leave it like that :hmph: practice on black car first, dont polish other cars anymore until you will polish this one out scratch/holograms free, even no micro marring, even if it takes you a week or more. that`s what i did. now life is much better with couple of them black Mercedes and with couple almost full (91%) wet sanding jobs (one black mercedes) under my belt.

**Accumulator** · 10-27-2010, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by toymachine2009

I was working on a Mustang GT today and I think I noticed what you meant how there were holograms I did M105 on Orange via DA and M205 on White via DA and at different angles I could see these holograms....

Am I understanding you right- holograms from DA work? That sounds more like micromarring from the M105 or oils from the M205 to me.

**gigondaz** · 10-28-2010, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Am I understanding you right- holograms from DA work? That sounds more like micromarring from the M105 or oils from the M205 to me.

It`s possible.

I`ve always told my detailing friends that DA (Flex VRG), under certain circumstances, with certain types of pad+product combo, can cause very faint holograms.

**Accumulator** · 10-28-2010, 08:41 AM

gigondaz- Maybe it`s just my being pedantic about the semantics again

I guess there`s not all *that* much of a (functional) diff between holograms and micromarring of other types.

**Dan** · 10-28-2010, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Am I understanding you right- holograms from DA work? That sounds more like micromarring from the M105 or oils from the M205 to me.

Its easy enough to get holograms with a DA, well, I like to call them tiger stripes, as that is what they look like. Its a result of moving the DA too fast across the surface. Its pretty simple, if you are leaving tiger stripes, you are moving too fast. The residue left behind should be smooth.

**Toymachine2009** · 10-28-2010, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by yakky

Its easy enough to get holograms with a DA, well, I like to call them tiger stripes, as that is what they look like. Its a result of moving the DA too fast across the surface. Its pretty simple, if you are leaving tiger stripes, you are moving too fast. The residue left behind should be smooth.

Ill try it out and slow down..

**Toymachine2009** · 10-28-2010, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by sacdetailing

i hope you didn`t leave it like that :hmph: practice on black car first, dont polish other cars anymore until you will polish this one out scratch/holograms free, even no micro marring, even if it takes you a week or more. that`s what i did. now life is much better with couple of them black Mercedes and with couple almost full (91%) wet sanding jobs (one black mercedes) under my belt.

Its alright I am doing this car for free so they should be happy with whatever they got. Since I removed 95% paint defects they wont even notice whats left and honestly Idk what they are. I dont think there holograms after I researched holograms I am not sure what they are maybe just the light or my eyes playing tricks on me. Looks to me like my towel may be marring the freshly polished paint. I wasnt using exactly the softest MF towels and I think thats my culprit.

They look almost like little blue lines when the light hits it or something idk I cant describe it and I can only see it at one angle and I dont think I can capture it with a camera.. Looking at the paint straight on or in shade or even in the sun looks fine just gotta look at it at a different angle I cant describe it.

**porta** · 10-29-2010, 05:30 AM

Its easy to finish out with a white(LC) and Menzerna PO203S. I mostly finish with a orange Menzerna pad(a good one step combination)and they are almost as firm as LC orange.

White and green will finish out nice, but as always - it´s the monkey behind the machine who is the most important.

**gigondaz** · 10-29-2010, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by yakky

Its easy enough to get holograms with a DA, well, I like to call them tiger stripes, as that is what they look like. Its a result of moving the DA too fast across the surface. Its pretty simple, if you are leaving tiger stripes, you are moving too fast. The residue left behind should be smooth.

Damn right, bro!!!

Moving the machine too fast (impatience perhaps??) can cause holos.

I like to take my time, and do it really slow.

**imported_Ivan Rajic** · 10-29-2010, 09:20 AM

Skimmed through the thread only....

My take is this, you do what you`re paid to do. This is the main reason I do a Pre-Detail Inspection before every detail, whether a client says budget is $300 or $3000. During the inspection I`ll detail the trunk lid usually, taping off 3-4 sections and doing 2, 3, 4 steps respectively. This way the client sees exactly what they`re getting for say $300, what they`d be missing out on for $450, $600, etc.

Don`t get me wrong, I`m all for 5+ polishing steps and perfect paint, and I`ve done quite a few of those over the years, but no matter how you look at it, there is a middle ground between restoration to perfection (or close as possible) and a clay + M205 job to just refresh the paint a bit. Different people want different things and I think the only ones that should be turned away (considering you`re trying to build a high end, enthusiast clientele) are those who want a POOR 1-step or 2-step for $100-150.

Oh and I completely disagree with the previous statement in the thread that a 2-step is bad for business, etc, made by gigondaz I believe. It`s actually contradictory to his (and my) school of thought, as the only criticism you`d get on a 2-step that doesn`t look perfect is from those who aren`t experienced enough and don`t have the knowledge to appreciate a proper 2-step, which always improves the paint quite a bit even if it`s really beat up. No it`s not perfection if the car is truly beat up but I do a lot of 2 or 3 step detail jobs and I can say from experience the paint looks like night and day after the whole "sheet" of swirling is off, and some deeper swirls removed. Color usually comes back to life and car looks brand new from a few feet away. I see the point gigon is trying to make, and if you truly do only want to go after clients paying for 4+ steps for perfect finishes, then I agree you have no business dealing with anything less than a process that will make it perfect or close to it. However I know or have heard of no-one who simply perfects cars and doesn`t do less correction.

Long story short, OP I would highly suggest doing a paint inspection and the popular test spots to show the client in person exactly what changes he can expect for what amount of money. As an added bonus, you get a very good idea of how the paint on that particular vehicle reacts to your process and you save time later on experimenting with different pads/polishes before doing the entire car.

**imported_Bert** · 10-29-2010, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by porta

Its easy to finish out with a white(LC) and Menzerna PO203S. I mostly finish with a orange Menzerna pad(a good one step combination)and they are almost as firm as LC orange.

White and green will finish out nice, but as always - it´s the monkey behind the machine who is the most important.

I assume you are referring to fininshing out hologram free with PO203 on a white pad with a rotary? A few weeks ago I was not able to do that but it was a black car and the paint was a little tricky. I will give it another try on a different car and see what comes of it.

**salty** · 10-29-2010, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bert

I assume you are referring to fininshing out hologram free with PO203 on a white pad with a rotary? A few weeks ago I was not able to do that but it was a black car and the paint was a little tricky. I will give it another try on a different car and see what comes of it.

While white/203/rotary will finish hologram free on most cars/black, if that is the final goal just reach for something finer. I know this thread is about a 2 step, but black is always a 3 step if the customer wants any correction to perfection.

**Accumulator** · 10-29-2010, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by yakky

Its easy enough to get holograms with a DA...

Huh... Guess I`ll just be happy I`ve never experienced that!

**sacdetailing** · 10-29-2010, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by toymachine2009

Its alright I am doing this car for free so they should be happy with whatever they got. Since I removed 95% paint defects they wont even notice whats left and honestly Idk what they are. I dont think there holograms after I researched holograms I am not sure what they are maybe just the light or my eyes playing tricks on me. Looks to me like my towel may be marring the freshly polished paint. I wasnt using exactly the softest MF towels and I think thats my culprit.

They look almost like little blue lines when the light hits it or something idk I cant describe it and I can only see it at one angle and I dont think I can capture it with a camera.. Looking at the paint straight on or in shade or even in the sun looks fine just gotta look at it at a different angle I cant describe it.

your using dirty microfiber towels, wall mart has some good towels for 5 bucks, of course dont use same towel for whole car, change them after each step and sometimes during step.