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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by VWGTI
    Thanks for all the feedback...it will help for future jobs.

    Here is the a pic of the BMW.


    Excellent work!!!



    John

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKleven
    Exactly... Don`t get me wrong, they have their place in the detailing world. If a professional detailer really wants to spend 20 hours with a D.A. in the hands for a few hundred bucks, then have at it. D.A.`s are for home users, and for some finishing work, but better and faster results can be achieved with a real polisher.



    John


    I remember spending nearly 10 hours on a black S55 using a UDM that would now take about half that time with a rotary and the paint looks noticeably better. I can charge the same or even a bit more, end up making a lot more an hour and getting better results.



    My DA buffer is great for one polishing step jobs where the customer is paying for shiny paint but isn`t interested in any serious correction. Both buffers have their roles.
    www.scottwax.com

    Certified Opti-Coat Pro/Pro 3 installer

  3. #18

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    I guess it all depends on the user. Personally when using the new non diminishing abraisives and a PC (the KBM), I can often achieve as much correction, in less time than when using my rotary. I don`t have to tape up as much on the car, and I don`t have to be as careful around edges. Additionally, I don`t have to polish until the compound / polish breaks down (since these are non diminishing abraisives)...I just "look through" the polish, and stop when the defects are removed.



    Another thing I have found when using the PC to remove heavy defects is that I can often achieve in 2 steps with the PC, what would have taken me 3 in the past with the rotary. For instance, I recently polished a heavily swirled vehicle. I used M105, KBM, PC, and a 5.5" LC Orange pad. I followed up with the PC, KBM, a Light Polishing Pad, and M86 (another non diminishing abraisive), and had an unbelieveable finish.



    Don`t get me wrong, I still use my rotary for jobs such as full wetsands on fresh paint jobs...and there are some paints that only respond to rotary correction.



    The point I am trying to make here is that it is hard to make a blanket statement that a guy who uses a PC is not as skilled as a guy that uses a rotary, and is spending unneccesary time on a detail. Like everything else in detailing, it all comes down to the type of paint, defects at hand, techniques, and the skill/experience of the user.
    Ridding the world of swirls, one car at a time!

  4. #19

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    I agree. I use both my rotary and my PC. It all depends on what I am trying to accomplish.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by 15951
    When I see these "$40/min an hour" threads, I think about the click and brags that claim they put 18+ hours into paint correction. NO WAY is the owner of a Honda Accord paying $800 for paint polishing.



    I think the pay rate should be reflective of experience/value, just as it is in most professional service organizations. If you`re just starting out and not as efficient (or good!) as an experienced pro, you`re simply ripping people off if you`re trying to charge $40/hour. If you`ve been a pro for awhile and have the knowledge, skills and ability to bust *** and get the job done quickly without compromising quality, then $40 is reasonable.



    From the consumers` perspective, you have to make sure you`re not overvaluing yourself out of the market. Detailing is still a luxury item for most people, and I think 90% of your customers can`t tell the difference between Turtle Wax and Zaino. Accordingly, I would save the boutique products for those that actually care about that sort of thing.



    Just my $0.02 - I`m not a pro, but I watch this forum with interest because the concepts apply to most any professional services discussion.


    This is well said. I charge $40 an for all work, except my maintenance wash and vacuums. Those people get a better rate because their cars are done bi-weekly or monthly, and it is steady money for me year round. Even in my area of the country, which has one of the highest per capita incomes, $40 an hour is about the limit people will pay for this type of service. I also have REAL expenses (salary, insurance, car, licenses marketing etc); so once the expenses are subtracted, I am left with much less in profit. The key with detailing, as with any business, is achieving efficiencies and economies of scale. This will allow you to make much more per hour than $40. For example having a well trained team of guys detail a car quickly and efficiently and still have good quality.
    Brad Will- Owner

    Reflections Auto Salon LLC

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by weekendwarrior
    I guess it all depends on the user. Personally when using the new non diminishing abraisives and a PC (the KBM), I can often achieve as much correction, in less time than when using my rotary. I don`t have to tape up as much on the car, and I don`t have to be as careful around edges. Additionally, I don`t have to polish until the compound / polish breaks down (since these are non diminishing abraisives)...I just "look through" the polish, and stop when the defects are removed.



    Another thing I have found when using the PC to remove heavy defects is that I can often achieve in 2 steps with the PC, what would have taken me 3 in the past with the rotary. For instance, I recently polished a heavily swirled vehicle. I used M105, KBM, PC, and a 5.5" LC Orange pad. I followed up with the PC, KBM, a Light Polishing Pad, and M86 (another non diminishing abraisive), and had an unbelieveable finish.



    Don`t get me wrong, I still use my rotary for jobs such as full wetsands on fresh paint jobs...and there are some paints that only respond to rotary correction.



    The point I am trying to make here is that it is hard to make a blanket statement that a guy who uses a PC is not as skilled as a guy that uses a rotary, and is spending unneccesary time on a detail. Like everything else in detailing, it all comes down to the type of paint, defects at hand, techniques, and the skill/experience of the user.


    I pretty much agree with David, but I can level down wetsanding marks or heavy defects with a PC using surbuf pads/M105 on the PC.



    After using a rotary for 3 years, I have not picked it up since Dec of 08 doing many corrections with the PC.



    Here is a recent extreme correction done with the PC.
    Bryan Burnworth - Atlanta Car Detailing - Peachstate Detail LLC

    Selected as one of the top nine detailers in the US by Autoweek

    Published in the 356 Registry

    The only exclusive Opti-Coat Pro specialist in Atlanta

    All PPF work done by the best in Atlanta Derek Johnson of Atlanta Protective Films

    Follow Peachstate Detail LLC on Facebook here.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by weekendwarrior
    I guess it all depends on the user. Personally when using the new non diminishing abraisives and a PC (the KBM), I can often achieve as much correction, in less time than when using my rotary. I don`t have to tape up as much on the car, and I don`t have to be as careful around edges. Additionally, I don`t have to polish until the compound / polish breaks down (since these are non diminishing abraisives)...I just "look through" the polish, and stop when the defects are removed.




    Still not sure how the KB method makes that much of a difference because the full write-up isn`t out as far as I know. I will say that I have never been able to get the same correction with the G110 and #105 vs Dewalt 849 and #105. :nixweiss
    www.scottwax.com

    Certified Opti-Coat Pro/Pro 3 installer

  8. #23

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    defect removal is much faster with the rotary, but finishing down with the PCXP is self assuring..

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by toyotaguy
    defect removal is much faster with the rotary, but finishing down with the PCXP is self assuring..
    With a rotary you are going to need 2 steps before you can get to a final polish, using the KBM with an orange or surbuf pad, you can follow with your final polish.
    Bryan Burnworth - Atlanta Car Detailing - Peachstate Detail LLC

    Selected as one of the top nine detailers in the US by Autoweek

    Published in the 356 Registry

    The only exclusive Opti-Coat Pro specialist in Atlanta

    All PPF work done by the best in Atlanta Derek Johnson of Atlanta Protective Films

    Follow Peachstate Detail LLC on Facebook here.

  10. #25

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    yeah, I had to handle a scratch on a lexus...PC/105 worked, but really slow needing a few hits. i decided to do the other half of it with a rotary and it was gone in 20 seconds via pfw and 105 (I only use wool on the rotary). then followed up with SIP and a orange pad, then FPII on a white pad and it was good as new!

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by toyotaguy
    yeah, I had to handle a scratch on a lexus...PC/105 worked, but really slow needing a few hits. i decided to do the other half of it with a rotary and it was gone in 20 seconds via pfw and 105 (I only use wool on the rotary). then followed up with SIP and a orange pad, then FPII on a white pad and it was good as new!


    You can also try a 4" orange pad with M105/PC for spot polishing after wetsanding or scratch removal. Prime the entire face of the 4" pad, a few drops and apply some pressure.
    Bryan Burnworth - Atlanta Car Detailing - Peachstate Detail LLC

    Selected as one of the top nine detailers in the US by Autoweek

    Published in the 356 Registry

    The only exclusive Opti-Coat Pro specialist in Atlanta

    All PPF work done by the best in Atlanta Derek Johnson of Atlanta Protective Films

    Follow Peachstate Detail LLC on Facebook here.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by weekendwarrior
    I guess it all depends on the user. Personally when using the new non diminishing abraisives and a PC (the KBM), I can often achieve as much correction, in less time than when using my rotary. I don`t have to tape up as much on the car, and I don`t have to be as careful around edges. Additionally, I don`t have to polish until the compound / polish breaks down (since these are non diminishing abraisives)...I just "look through" the polish, and stop when the defects are removed.



    Another thing I have found when using the PC to remove heavy defects is that I can often achieve in 2 steps with the PC, what would have taken me 3 in the past with the rotary. For instance, I recently polished a heavily swirled vehicle. I used M105, KBM, PC, and a 5.5" LC Orange pad. I followed up with the PC, KBM, a Light Polishing Pad, and M86 (another non diminishing abraisive), and had an unbelieveable finish.



    Don`t get me wrong, I still use my rotary for jobs such as full wetsands on fresh paint jobs...and there are some paints that only respond to rotary correction.



    The point I am trying to make here is that it is hard to make a blanket statement that a guy who uses a PC is not as skilled as a guy that uses a rotary, and is spending unneccesary time on a detail. Like everything else in detailing, it all comes down to the type of paint, defects at hand, techniques, and the skill/experience of the user.




    I disagree, especially if you`re using a PC. That thing barely has enough power to apply wax. I honestly can`t think of ANY time when a PC is faster than a rotary polisher. If you would have said FLEX, or Cyclo, then maybe on certain applications, but that PC is a POS.





    John

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKleven
    I disagree, especially if you`re using a PC. That thing barely has enough power to apply wax. I honestly can`t think of ANY time when a PC is faster than a rotary polisher. If you would have said FLEX, or Cyclo, then maybe on certain applications, but that PC is a POS.





    John


    It`s a shame you are not located close to me...I`d show you in person.
    Ridding the world of swirls, one car at a time!

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKleven
    I disagree, especially if you`re using a PC. That thing barely has enough power to apply wax. I honestly can`t think of ANY time when a PC is faster than a rotary polisher. If you would have said FLEX, or Cyclo, then maybe on certain applications, but that PC is a POS.



    John


    Sorry but your post reeks of ignorance. :sadwavey:
    Bryan Burnworth - Atlanta Car Detailing - Peachstate Detail LLC

    Selected as one of the top nine detailers in the US by Autoweek

    Published in the 356 Registry

    The only exclusive Opti-Coat Pro specialist in Atlanta

    All PPF work done by the best in Atlanta Derek Johnson of Atlanta Protective Films

    Follow Peachstate Detail LLC on Facebook here.

  15. #30
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKleven
    Exactly... Don`t get me wrong, they have their place in the detailing world. If a professional detailer really wants to spend 20 hours with a D.A. in the hands for a few hundred bucks, then have at it. D.A.`s are for home users, and for some finishing work, but better and faster results can be achieved with a real polisher.



    John


    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKleven
    I disagree, especially if you`re using a PC. That thing barely has enough power to apply wax. I honestly can`t think of ANY time when a PC is faster than a rotary polisher. If you would have said FLEX, or Cyclo, then maybe on certain applications, but that PC is a POS.





    John


    This is kind of an ignorant reply John. You either don’t have the slightest clue what you’re doing with a PC or you’ve never devoted any time to learning. That, and you’re obviously belittling/doubting the integrity of well known Pros like GMblack / RyDawg / RickRack / Kevin Brown / Todd Helme / Weekend Warrior / Presidential Detail…ETC… and equating their results as fallacies. Either way, you’re coming off like an old schooler that’s totally resistant to learning new processes. I’ll admit I was too at 1st until I spoke to people protesting career changing results with it. So much so that many of these people who have been billing customers per hour for years are now pricing their work out by the job. They claim that if they didn’t their income would be cut by almost due to less time needing to be spent obtaining the final outcome.









    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwax
    I remember spending nearly 10 hours on a black S55 using a UDM that would now take about half that time with a rotary and the paint looks noticeably better. I can charge the same or even a bit more, end up making a lot more an hour and getting better results.



    My DA buffer is great for one polishing step jobs where the customer is paying for shiny paint but isn`t interested in any serious correction. Both buffers have their roles.


    So, are you saying that you haven’t been doing “serious corrections” prior to your recent swap over to a rotary? All those Click N Brags were a hoax? :grinno:



    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwax
    Still not sure how the KB method makes that much of a difference because the full write-up isn`t out as far as I know. I will say that I have never been able to get the same correction with the G110 and #105 vs Dewalt 849 and #105. :nixweiss




    A black SL55 with Ceramic paint will more than likely need at least a 2 step correction via a rotary. How you can do that in 5 hours w/o leaving trails and doing any kind of moderate level of correction is amazing? Maybe that’s why the results vary.

    There’s definitely a learning curve with the KBM. Process it key. When you stray from it, quality results will not be achieved. Have you followed any of the instructions already posted?



    *Disclaimer* I’m not implying that the KBM is the end all/be all of paint correction. It may not apply to certain situations. BUT, the thing that stands out is the FACT that buffer trails and multiple alcohol wipe downs for defect detection is a thing of the past. That, coupled with its effective cutting power is enough value for me to make it my go-to. I’ve used it on the last 5 cars I’ve done and can honestly say that it made a night and day difference in time and result$.
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

 

 
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