Finishing with a Rotary

[imported_d00t]

I was actually going to make a post about SIP the other day, and ironically it was on a black G37... it was driving me nuts, so much so I said forget it and moved to 3m stuff. I was cutting with M105, then going to SIP, getting a good finish...then 10 minutes later (it was hot) I had holograms, I assume because the oils were evaporating. I must have went over the hood 5 times with SIP before I said screw it. It`s a shame, because there is a lot I like about it, but if it`s going to fill on me I`ll need to find something else to take its place.

Picus so what did you do? I only have Menzerna in my line up for now and don`t know what I`d do if this happened to me .

[Todd@RUPES]

Ya, me to to some extent. I still don`t love IP, so I use SIP occasionally, but on really trashed paint where I need serious correction I still find it has a hard time dealing with the holograms even 105 leaves behind (which I will often use *after* HTEc or Presta Ultra).



I have a gallon of 106ff, and I am sure I will use it eventually, but more slowly. It`s still good as a final finishing product.







Thanks. I know what you mean about the hours of polishing, hah.



I was actually going to make a post about SIP the other day, and ironically it was on a black G37... it was driving me nuts, so much so I said forget it and moved to 3m stuff. I was cutting with M105, then going to SIP, getting a good finish...then 10 minutes later (it was hot) I had holograms, I assume because the oils were evaporating. I must have went over the hood 5 times with SIP before I said screw it. It`s a shame, because there is a lot I like about it, but if it`s going to fill on me I`ll need to find something else to take its place.

Perhaps, one day you and I will be as good as the body shop and production guys who use this product, and if we are very lucky, we will be good enough to use it at all.

[SpoiledMan]

My love for SIP went away a while ago. I`ve never seen anything make a buffer howl like that.

[imported_Picus]

What`s the deal with the new G37`s? Does it have something to do with Nissan`s new "self-repairing" paint system?

I don`t think it`s just G37s or Nissans. I`ve seen similar things happen on black BMWs, black Hondas, black Audi`s/VWs... and the fact that we see it on black doesn`t mean it isn`t happening on other colours, just that we don`t see it in natural light. I am sure that it`s still taking away from the finish at a microscopic level.

Picus so what did you do? I only have Menzerna in my line up for now and don`t know what I`d do if this happened to me .

I switched to 3m perfect it swirl mark remover, then finished with Opt Polish then FPII. The 3M left almost no halogramming behind, but FPII gave the finish more gloss. I`ve done the same thing with presta 1500.

Perhaps, one day you and I will be as good as the body shop and production guys who use this product, and if we are very lucky, we will be good enough to use it at all.

I see what you did there.

My love for SIP went away a while ago. I`ve never seen anything make a buffer howl like that.

Are you using IP in its place or something else? I`ve tried to replace SIP with a number of different polishes but haven`t been super happy with any of them. On that G37 I ended up doing 4 steps, which I don`t mind but it adds a lot of time.

[imported_d00t]

My love for SIP went away a while ago. I`ve never seen anything make a buffer howl like that.

What do you recommend in place of SIP?

[SpoiledMan]

I replaced SIP with IP and just vary the pad I use it with. We tested SIP and IP side by side on the black Phaeton that I did last year (soon to be seen again) and there was no discernible difference. I`m SIP free except for a mixture os IP and SIP that I have sitting around.

[Scottwax]

Todd can correct me if I am wrong, but I don`t think he is saying UFSE is a bad product. I think he is saying if used incrorrectly, it will fill. You shouldn`t compound a panel, then go to UFSE. You need another step in between...Meg`s 83, SIP, etc...



I think a lot of people think UFSE is the silver bullet to finishing out holigram free with a rotary, and the jump to it too early in the polishing process.

Exactly. Even the directions on the bottle say to follow a compound with a polish so you leave only light holograms behind to be removed by UF. If you follow the directions, UF will leave the paint hologram free.



I have been able to follow Meguiars #105/8006 foam pad with Ultrafina but only on hard paints where #105 leaves only faint holograms. The rest of the time I usually go with Optimum polish using either a white or a black LC pad (depending on the level of holograms).



If I don`t have any sun available to check for holograms, I`ve been finishing with the PC to be on the safe side despite the normal reliability of UF.

[Scottwax]

Thanks. I know what you mean about the hours of polishing, hah.



I was actually going to make a post about SIP the other day, and ironically it was on a black G37... it was driving me nuts, so much so I said forget it and moved to 3m stuff. I was cutting with M105, then going to SIP, getting a good finish...then 10 minutes later (it was hot) I had holograms, I assume because the oils were evaporating.

I had that happen with Meguiars #83 on the hood of a black Jetta. Looked absolutely perfect for 5 minutes, the *bam* light holograms. Went over it with Ultrafina and it sat a good 2-3 hours while polishing out the rest of the car. Still hologram free while the light haze/streaks visible after wiping off UF were completely gone.

[imported_artikxscout]

Wow! Thanks Todd for the thorough response, and everyone else! I guess I`m not alone in the pursuit for the perfect finish . Sounds like my problem was that 106 is just too aggressive on soft clears as a finishing polish.



Could I go straight from SIP to 85rd on a car with hard clear, or would I need the 106 in the middle? Or even SIP to 106 and leave out 85rd?



On soft clears, if you need to use SIP would I have to do a 3 step like SIP>106FA>85rd?

Usually for me 106FF is good enough to finish down all the way. If you really want to be absolutely sure that there`s no holograms, i`d probably finish own with the 85rd.

[SpoiledMan]

I had that happen with Meguiars #83 on the hood of a black Jetta. Looked absolutely perfect for 5 minutes, the *bam* light holograms. Went over it with Ultrafina and it sat a good 2-3 hours while polishing out the rest of the car. Still hologram free while the light haze/streaks visible after wiping off UF were completely gone.

I know from experience that UF can hide enough to do just that. Be careful.

[Driven Auto Detail]

I don`t think it`s just G37s or Nissans. I`ve seen similar things happen on black BMWs, black Hondas, black Audi`s/VWs... and the fact that we see it on black doesn`t mean it isn`t happening on other colours, just that we don`t see it in natural light. I am sure that it`s still taking away from the finish at a microscopic level.

So what exactly is happening on these vehicles? What are the signs/symptoms you guys are seeing that makes polishing it such a difficult situation? I think there was a post recently by someone showing how whatever polish they were using on a new Nissan was throwing little bits of polish everywhere quite quickly (sticky paint I believe?). Same thing or something different?



Sorry, but I`m just trying to understand what the problem is in case I encounter the same thing down the road.

[imported_weekendwarrior]

I have been using 1Z High Gloss polish, in place of 106ff lately, and haven`t noticed any holigrams...even after wipedowns. 1 car that I finished out with the 1Z I see every few weeks at a cruise in, and I have been watching to see if anything magically appears...nothing yet.

[Driven Auto Detail]

I`ve seen a few people (specifically, Accumlator *i think*) talk more and more about the 1Z polishes. What`s your take on that line overall WW? Are they on the same level or better than Menz?

[imported_Picus]

So what exactly is happening on these vehicles? What are the signs/symptoms you guys are seeing that makes polishing it such a difficult situation? I think there was a post recently by someone showing how whatever polish they were using on a new Nissan was throwing little bits of polish everywhere quite quickly (sticky paint I believe?). Same thing or something different?



Sorry, but I`m just trying to understand what the problem is in case I encounter the same thing down the road.

I think that`s different, but these two issues can commonly occur on the same car. The "spitting" thing is generally attributed to soft or "sticky" paint. SIP is the perfect test for this; on some paint it will just refuse to work. I`ve had this happen on Porsches too, though; so it isn`t always "soft" paint that does it. Some people have speculated it`s from silicone on the paint. It happens a lot of re-sprays too. In fact, I just did a Carrera S and on the front of the car SIP was fine, but on the rear (car was rear-ended last year) it was unusable.



On the filling thing, it generally seems to be on softer paints where SIP/106ff are using on pads that leave machine marks behind (as in, the orange or white pad leave very light halograms because the pads themselves are abrasive) and SIP/106ff/UF fill those marks in with oils, leaving what appears to be a halogram free finish.



A really good example of this is when you see folks "one step" polishing cars with 106ff on say, an orange LC pad. Unless the paint is like rocks (and even then...) the orange pad is going to leave marring, and 106ff will often fill that in for a short period of time. Maybe people on this board have been bitten in the *** by minor surprise holograms from SIP/white, 106ff/orange, etc... The trick is if you`re going to use either of those combos you need to follow it up a pad that has no abrasive ability (or almost none) as the finishing step, as Todd mentioned earlier. So like, 8rd/blue or 106/blue or FPII/black, etc.

[imported_weekendwarrior]

I`ve seen a few people (specifically, Accumlator *i think*) talk more and more about the 1Z polishes. What`s your take on that line overall WW? Are they on the same level or better than Menz?

I like them a lot. Admittedly, I am not at the level of TH0001, Rydawg, etc... to be able to give an "expert analysis". The bottles recommend a rotary speed range of 700-1000rpm....nice and slow. They have a nice work time, and I get good gloss out of the High Gloss polish. I typically use a rotary, but I recently bought a Flex just to play with some. These polishes also work nicely on the Flex. Honestly, I`ll probably never buy 106ff again...I like the 1Z High Gloss.