Finishing with a Rotary

[Todd@RUPES]

I did actually. It was around 4pm and the sun was still pretty high. I have after shots of almost every panel, and nothing showed in the pictures, and when I inspected it.

Very typical for the Menzerna finishing polishes. As a side, the distributor of Menzerna came on here and blasted forum members, stating that we are not good enough to use his products. He even said that this problem you had doesn`t occur.



The reason I asked if you inspected the paint before is because you are having a typical case of "white pad filling". The LC white pad is a polishing pad, and while you can finish on a porter cable (inessence creating one big hologram that isn`t visible) on a rotary, the pad is going to abrade the paint in the direction of the fixed rotation.



This marring is very slight and mineral oil and other lubricants will act to stick into these abrasions. Even with heavy solvents and alcohol you probably will have a hard time removing all of it. When I saw you used the white pad to finish, this is what prompted me to question you.



To finish out with a rotary you are going to need



a) a pad with little to no mechanical abrasion

b) a polish with little cut and one that breaks down easily and quickly, but has a long play time.



You will need to



a) start the polish at 1500 rpm or so and apply a little pressure to head of the rotary (5 pounds will work). This will "help" the pad produce enough bite to begin to fracture the abrasives. For the product to finish out completely perfect you will need to break the abrasives all the way down.



b) make smooth, steady passes with the pad flat. As the polish begins to clear up reduce pressure, then reduce RPM everytime you polish the whole area. Work the dial back to 1000 rpm or so with no pressure.



c) Make a couple of very light, slow passes over the area to ensure the polish is fully broken down and the paint is highly jewelled.

[imported_artikxscout]

^That`s exactly what I was looking for when I was reading through this thread. I was having the same problem on a Bimmer, finishing it with the 3m Grey pad and 106FF. It would leave slight halograms like streaks on the paint. It`s happened to the last 2 details I`ve done and it`s basically getting annoying.



What pad do you recommend and which finishing polish?

[imported_Totoland Mach]

^That`s exactly what I was looking for when I was reading through this thread. I was having the same problem on a Bimmer, finishing it with the 3m Grey pad and 106FF. It would leave slight halograms like streaks on the paint. It`s happened to the last 2 details I`ve done and it`s basically getting annoying.



What pad do you recommend and which finishing polish?

I`m finishing a black 06` 530i and here`s what I`m going to do today. The car has been compounded twice: first with 3M Extra Cut (it had very heavy swirls and scratches) and wool. Then I used 3M Perfect-It 3000 compound and foam to refine the finish.



With Menzerna 106ff, I find you have to work the product at slow speed with a very soft pad. I use the 3M Ultrafina Blue Foam for this and work at 1,000 rpm until the product clears on the paint.



Toto

[Driven Auto Detail]

UF-SE will fill like nobodies bussiness and it is VERY difficult to remove the oils (even after numerous wipe downs with some pretty harsh solvents). Best bet, pull it in the sun for a day with no LSP and re-inspect. You will be amazed at how much is still left (maybe).



I see people going from compound to UF, and I can only shake my head. In 3 months the car will look like it has only been compounded. Your best bet is to only use UF-SE for finishing and NEVER trust it for defect removal. Even then you might find some light pad abrasion marring 3 months down the road.

Todd -



Weren`t you a big UFSE fan at one point? I think I bought a bottle just because you recommended it...which wasn`t cheap, lol!

[imported_weekendwarrior]

Todd -



Weren`t you a big UFSE fan at one point? I think I bought a bottle just because you recommended it...which wasn`t cheap, lol!

Todd can correct me if I am wrong, but I don`t think he is saying UFSE is a bad product. I think he is saying if used incrorrectly, it will fill. You shouldn`t compound a panel, then go to UFSE. You need another step in between...Meg`s 83, SIP, etc...



I think a lot of people think UFSE is the silver bullet to finishing out holigram free with a rotary, and the jump to it too early in the polishing process.

[Todd@RUPES]

Todd -



Weren`t you a big UFSE fan at one point? I think I bought a bottle just because you recommended it...which wasn`t cheap, lol!

Sorry Mike!! I WAS a big UF-SE fan for a while. It has the potential to finish out hologram free, but should only be used to remove holograms (and light ones at that). I have seen posts with people going from wool to UF and that is the issue.



I`m still looking for a polish that has no filling (except Z-PC, which sucks on a rotary).

[imported_Picus]

Hey Todd - do you find FPII fills much? I completely agree with you on 106ff and SIP (in fact, they`ve really been irritating me lately), but I don`t see much filling with FP or FPII even after extended periods of time. I`ve been using FPII much more than 106ff in the recent months and it`s been going well. No more surprise holograms :/

[SpoiledMan]

Hey Todd - do you find FPII fills much? I completely agree with you on 106ff and SIP (in fact, they`ve really been irritating me lately), but I don`t see much filling with FP or FPII even after extended periods of time. I`ve been using FPII much more than 106ff in the recent months and it`s been going well. No more surprise holograms :/

I`ve gone back to IP and FPII and not having any issues at all. It`s also much cheaper.



Anybody want to buy some 106ff........cheap?

[imported_d00t]

Wow! Thanks Todd for the thorough response, and everyone else! I guess I`m not alone in the pursuit for the perfect finish . Sounds like my problem was that 106 is just too aggressive on soft clears as a finishing polish.



Could I go straight from SIP to 85rd on a car with hard clear, or would I need the 106 in the middle? Or even SIP to 106 and leave out 85rd?



On soft clears, if you need to use SIP would I have to do a 3 step like SIP>106FA>85rd?

[ABQDetailer]

UF-SE will fill like nobodies bussiness and it is VERY difficult to remove the oils (even after numerous wipe downs with some pretty harsh solvents). Best bet, pull it in the sun for a day with no LSP and re-inspect. You will be amazed at how much is still left (maybe).



I see people going from compound to UF, and I can only shake my head. In 3 months the car will look like it has only been compounded. Your best bet is to only use UF-SE for finishing and NEVER trust it for defect removal. Even then you might find some light pad abrasion marring 3 months down the road.

I did notice the product seems to work for a long time.



I wasn`t actually recommending him to go straight from Compound to UFSE but rather to use UFSE after a good polish solely to remove holograms. This seems to be the best use of this product for me when I`m polishing with a rotary and it was the missing link in my process.

[Driven Auto Detail]

Sorry Mike!! I WAS a big UF-SE fan for a while. It has the potential to finish out hologram free, but should only be used to remove holograms (and light ones at that). I have seen posts with people going from wool to UF and that is the issue.



I`m still looking for a polish that has no filling (except Z-PC, which sucks on a rotary).

Thanks for the explanation on UFSE Todd. By no means am I unhappy that I purchased it (just giving you a hard time, hehe). I`ll definitely keep it in my arsenal for now.



Thanks again!

[Todd@RUPES]

Hey Todd - do you find FPII fills much? I completely agree with you on 106ff and SIP (in fact, they`ve really been irritating me lately), but I don`t see much filling with FP or FPII even after extended periods of time. I`ve been using FPII much more than 106ff in the recent months and it`s been going well. No more surprise holograms :/

I have "seen" FPII fill slightly (no where near SIP/106ff). I haven`t mentioned SIP too much because but it does have the ability to fill. There is a thread titled "Bella Macchina Porsche" of something that I did with the help of Pats300ZX. It was so frustrating because everytime after SIP, a wipe down would reveal defects returning. Eventually (after 3-4 passes) the paint would look perfect.



FP and FPII seem to the least finicky and least likely to fill. Like I said out of maybe 50 cars finished with FPII, I have only seen something come back once. The thing is that we detail in dynamic enviroments on different paints every day. Our standards are also much much higher.



I have never seen IP nor FP fill, but then again I might not have ran into that terrible paint job that reacts bad with the polish.



Then again I have seen PowerGloss remove sanding marks when M105 wouldn`t touch them (depsite the fact that M105 is seriously 12 times more powerful). Doing this full time (despite a slightly slow summer) has only taught me that I don`t know anything but I do have enough experience to get the job done perfectly given the time to try enough products and techniques.



That is why it is so hard to have hard rules of rotary polishing and I think a lot of people give up after a while. Finish a G37 with either 106ff/fa/ or PO85rd and go look at it 3 weeks later. Hell, if that was my first car that I polished with a rotary I would probably have quit (and saved this forum from drama!)



I should buy stock in Wurth Prep-Solve because I wipe the panels down after every pass now, and one thing that I have learned is that everything "can" fill, which was very disheartening. I don`t trust the results I see until I wipe the car down 3-5 times and can inspect it in the sun, otherwise its just guess work.



This also leads to 20-40 hours of polishing (vs 5-8), trying to remove stuff that you cannot see.

[Todd@RUPES]

I did notice the product seems to work for a long time.



I wasn`t actually recommending him to go straight from Compound to UFSE but rather to use UFSE after a good polish solely to remove holograms. This seems to be the best use of this product for me when I`m polishing with a rotary and it was the missing link in my process.

NP, I wasn`t referring to your post directly (at all really). I was just trying to state that to really finish a car out with a rotary takes a lot of trial and error, practice, and the correct techniques.



For a week end warrior (who is willing to give up the last 2% in their finish that a rotary can produce) it is probably better to finish with a PC. However if you want to "master" the rotary prepare for a lot of head scratching and frustration. The results are worth it though!!!

[imported_Picus]

I`ve gone back to IP and FPII and not having any issues at all. It`s also much cheaper.



Anybody want to buy some 106ff........cheap?

Ya, me to to some extent. I still don`t love IP, so I use SIP occasionally, but on really trashed paint where I need serious correction I still find it has a hard time dealing with the holograms even 105 leaves behind (which I will often use *after* HTEc or Presta Ultra).



I have a gallon of 106ff, and I am sure I will use it eventually, but more slowly. It`s still good as a final finishing product.

I have "seen" FPII fill slightly (no where near SIP/106ff). I haven`t mentioned SIP too much because but it does have the ability to fill. There is a thread titled "Bella Macchina Porsche" of something that I did with the help of Pats300ZX. It was so frustrating because everytime after SIP, a wipe down would reveal defects returning. Eventually (after 3-4 passes) the paint would look perfect.



FP and FPII seem to the least finicky and least likely to fill. Like I said out of maybe 50 cars finished with FPII, I have only seen something come back once. The thing is that we detail in dynamic enviroments on different paints every day. Our standards are also much much higher.



I have never seen IP nor FP fill, but then again I might not have ran into that terrible paint job that reacts bad with the polish.



Then again I have seen PowerGloss remove sanding marks when M105 wouldn`t touch them (depsite the fact that M105 is seriously 12 times more powerful). Doing this full time (despite a slightly slow summer) has only taught me that I don`t know anything but I do have enough experience to get the job done perfectly given the time to try enough products and techniques.



That is why it is so hard to have hard rules of rotary polishing and I think a lot of people give up after a while. Finish a G37 with either 106ff/fa/ or PO85rd and go look at it 3 weeks later. Hell, if that was my first car that I polished with a rotary I would probably have quit (and saved this forum from drama!)



I should buy stock in Wurth Prep-Solve because I wipe the panels down after every pass now, and one thing that I have learned is that everything "can" fill, which was very disheartening. I don`t trust the results I see until I wipe the car down 3-5 times and can inspect it in the sun, otherwise its just guess work.



This also leads to 20-40 hours of polishing (vs 5-8), trying to remove stuff that you cannot see.

Thanks. I know what you mean about the hours of polishing, hah.



I was actually going to make a post about SIP the other day, and ironically it was on a black G37... it was driving me nuts, so much so I said forget it and moved to 3m stuff. I was cutting with M105, then going to SIP, getting a good finish...then 10 minutes later (it was hot) I had holograms, I assume because the oils were evaporating. I must have went over the hood 5 times with SIP before I said screw it. It`s a shame, because there is a lot I like about it, but if it`s going to fill on me I`ll need to find something else to take its place.

[Driven Auto Detail]

What`s the deal with the new G37`s? Does it have something to do with Nissan`s new "self-repairing" paint system?