"well i can just go to carspa"

[Dirt_Turbo]

for $50 , clay with new clay, 2 coats of paint cleaner, 2 coats of swirl remover layer of Z2 pro, and then 2 - 3 coats of P21S, and quick vacuum of interior and dash clean and other parts of car such as door jams etc

[BillyL207]

OK. Before you regret pricing do realize that amount of time your going to put into this car. Clay alone will take 30 minutes. I personally start my clay services for 20.00 for a slight dirty car and so on and so forth. Before you jump the gun like I`m sure most of us have under quoted in the past. Then rethink what you think the job is going to be worth.

[Dirt_Turbo]

ya i know would take me 9 hours or so to complete the whole car to a reasonable finish , but i just cant stand looking at it always never being cleaned,

[imported_Detailing Technology]

I use vaporize because I use a Desidero on the car, vapor cleaner. They get excited when I tell them its a $1200 steam cleaner that uses pressurized 300 degree water to remove contaminants without chemicals. (Oh, and I`ll fill it with Poland Spring if they like) I`m always clear that the decomposition is slowed during storage and application, once applied, it dries and is on the finish. They love that I am serious about the detailing to the degree they are serious about their work.





For $700 they get:

Foam bath

Clay

Wet sand if necessary

Full Menzerna correction

Z-5pro x 2

Souveran wax top coat (spit-shine)

Engine detailed

Interior vapor cleaned and extracted

Wheels sealed and removed



A full detail to me. I won`t sand the entire car for $700, just some rough spots or a panel or two. Ill touch the car up also if they have the paint. For an extra $200 per panel, I schedule my PDR guy to come over and clean the car up also. I go over all of this when I first see the car and do a write up on what I will perform for the customer. On my write up sheet are times required with a little detail information. And I write one price. I dont break it down for them to remove or add features. A detail with 3 panels of PDR is $1300.



If they need a bumper painted, depending on the size, color, and amount of preparation required for the repair, I charge between $400-600. I pay $300 flat rate for retail quality work from a shop owned by a friend. I dont not want him to charge me less so I can complain and piss all over him if I dont like the color match or quality of the work.





Model margins:

Full Detail

$700.00

Supply cost $35.00 approx.

Labor cost - $600.00 ($100.00 per hour @ 6 hrs per car)

Total cost - $635.00

Net profit - $65.00



PDR

$200.00 per panel

Cost - $80.00 per panel

Net profit- $120.00 per panel



Bumper refinishing

Average - $500.00

Cost - $300.00

Net profit - $200.00 per bumper.





Its an experience I am selling. Total car care, I serivce the vehicle as if it were a professional athelete. Also, if they dont like the work, they dont have to pay me. Because its all referral business, I dont get people looking to play games and I am not looking to make enemies.

I have wrapped up a call with this, "If it sounds like over-kill to you, you arent a customer for this type of service. I can still help you though".

[imported_JoshVette]

ya i know would take me 9 hours or so to complete the whole car to a reasonable finish , but i just cant stand looking at it always never being cleaned,

Why bother applying two paint cleaners and two swirl removers?? I`d just do both once, there`s really no need for two.



Also remember if he doesn`t take care of the car bofore you do all this work, I wouldn`t expect him to start caring about it now just cause it`s shinier, so don`t get mad if you do all that work just for him to let it go all to crap again....:sadpace:

[David Fermani]

All this work:

For $700 they get:

Foam bath

Clay

Wet sand if necessary

Full Menzerna correction

Z-5pro x 2

Souveran wax top coat (spit-shine)

Engine detailed

Interior vapor cleaned and extracted

Wheels sealed and removed



A full detail to me. I won`t sand the entire car for $700, just some rough spots or a panel or two. Ill touch the car up also if they have the paint.

In this amount of time:

Full Detail @ 6 hrs per car)

For this amount of profit (?)

Labor cost - $600.00 ($100.00 per hour @ 6 hrs per car)

Total cost - $635.00

Net profit - $65.00

I have a few questions after reading through your comments:



Are you doing the detailing yourself on these high end jobs? (I`m confused why you posted your labor costs as if you were paying them out?)



If you are doing it yourself, I can`t see how this extent of repair is being done in this time frame?



If you`re not, aren`t you opening yourself up to alot of liability/exposure for $65 profit?

[imported_Jakerooni]

Here`s a simple way to make the point. Go down to "carspa" with a jar get a jar of their nasty "grey" water they wash their customers cars with over and over and over again. Then fill up a jar of your crystal clear clean water and physically show them the difference they are paying for. Shouldn`t be hard to make that point come across when the evidence is right there in front of their face.

[imported_Detailing Technology]

All this work:







In this amount of time:







For this amount of profit (?)







I have a few questions after reading through your comments:



Are you doing the detailing yourself on these high end jobs? (I`m confused why you posted your labor costs as if you were paying them out?)



If you are doing it yourself, I can`t see how this extent of repair is being done in this time frame?



If you`re not, aren`t you opening yourself up to alot of liability/exposure for $65 profit?

I am paying it out, I`m an S-Corp.

The $600 is for me, I have to give myself a pay-check.



I am rarely on time. I document $100.00 hr and I bill each car at 6 hrs flat to justify the $700 fee should I be asked. I am typically finishing at 7, 7.5 total time, but have been done in 6. I have a pre-defined process and a plan and follow it to the minute. My last 2 clean-ups were 7.7 hours of labor. I am operating at a loss at that point, its used as a metric to track success or failure.



A few things I do and do not do:



1. I do not use a digital micrometer to measure paint thickness. In 20 years of using a rotary I have never seen anyone burn through the middle of a panel, edges get ripped plenty, middle of a panel, never.



2. I do not clay obsessively. I clay the hood, roof, and trunk while washing. If I cant get the finish smooth with a wool pad and SIP, should it be so nasty, I will know this before I price the job and price accordingly. Haven`t seen one yet.



3. I combine 3 initial cleaning/prep stepsinto 1 process. I put the car on jack stands, should I be so lucky they fit under the car and then remove the wheels. Otherwise I lose time doing a laft to right car wash with my low height floor jack. I pressure wash the car, engine, clay, clean the wells, wheels at this time. I put the wheels back on, roll it into the garage. I dry the car with a leaf blower then touch up with the air compressor in the garage. I also blow the interior out with my compressor while its outside in the driveway. Saves on vacuum time. Total time is 1.5 hours.



4. I do the interior first. This shields me from contaminating the exterior surfaces with dressings and window cleaner. It also prevents me from rubbing a Desidero or a vacuum home against a freshly polished surface. I dress the tires, wells, and engine at this time. Total time is 45 minutes.



5. I use 2 Makita rotary polishers. The first rotary has a 6" Edge pad, the second has 2.75" backing plate for use with 4" Lake Country pads in tight spots. SIP used with a rotary, 106ff is also used with a rotary. Should the vehicle require some touching up or some massaging with a PC, I break it out. I have however incorporated the Porter Cable into a fine finishing process on well kept cars. A typical car requires 3 hours to run over the panels. The R63 I did took 4, its huge. Should I need to sand out a scratch, add 60 seconds per panel. I have a few sheets of 2000 soaking before I start.



6. Zaino application. Put it on the entire car including the wheels, go eat lunch. Total time 15 minutes application, 45 minutes dry time. TOTAL 1h.



7. Zaino application 2. Put it on the entire car, walk around start final cleaning or all egdge, tim, exhaust, trim dressing, second tire dressing. Total time 1hour.



8. Souveran spit shine wax appication. Painted surfaces only, total time 30 minutes. Wipe-on Wipe-off



9.. My garage is heated to 70 dgrees in the winter via kerosene heater. Im not cold, the car isnt cold.



As you can read, i need to trim some time to make the $100 hour goal. I am continually refining the process. I also have all chemicals repackaged, laid out, and clearly marked in hand held sizes to reduce time searching for the right thing. In the driveway, I have a hand cart, in the garage I have a rolling seat I sit on and everything stay under me. The halogens are set up ahead of time, 1 in front, 1 in back. I move them from side to side as I polish around the car from top down.



I dont have many pictures of the configuration when I work, but here are a few I found.



Some items that stay with me in the seat





Brought into the driveway





In garage, larger dose bottles.







After each job, I wash every used microfiber and refill all of the bottles. This eliminates wasted start up time for the next weekend. I also keep enough microfibers, polisheng pads, and product on hard t complete a dozen cars. I never want for anything.

[imported_Jakerooni]

Jsatek- Wow good write up on process.. But I have a few questions. First off to any detailer out there. This whole paint gauge thing. I keep looking at it as pure hype. and I can`t seem to get past it. Why you ask? Because no matter how many times I check the paint my wheel has no clue what a micron is. now or ever will it be anywhere near as precise as that gauge. I can`t wheel that specific so in essence what does it really matter how thick the paint is? If it`s thin 99% of the time there are visable signs that it`s thin. I`ve just never understood the logical reasoning behind this gimmick outside of trying to "upsale" your customers because it looks "high tech" and whatnot. What`s the true reason behind the paint gauge?



second I read you use a compressor to blow out the interior but use a leaf blower to dry the car? Umm why? That might save you quite a bit of time right there. Get rid of the leaf blower. I`ve never understood that either. If I was a paying customer with a high end car and you (in general) show up to detail my car and pull out a leaf blower I would tell you right then and there to pack your stuff up and get off my property. It`s a huge sign of unprofessional imagery. I would look at it the same as a kid showing up to mow my 20 acres of lawn with a push mower. Especially if you already have the air compressor. Use it. Much more efficient, much quicker, and looks like you showed up on the spot with the professional tools of the trade. They have water sprite out there that absoultly do NOT marr the paint in any way shape or form. No need to not use the proper detailing tools in this case. (again these are only my opnions)



I also don`t get how it takes 3 hours to wheel out the paint but only 60 seconds to wetsand it? even per panel that dosen`t sound right about the wetsanding. How are you wetsanding? Maybe it something I could use to save off some time. Because I`ll take a half hour or more sometimes to do a thurough wetsand.



How are you taking off the wheels? 4 way lug wrench or impact? could shave off some minutes there as well if your using anything but the air compressor.



Can`t really comment on the products used because I`ve never used them. But It might be worth the while to check into other products that have less cure times. If you can find any in the same quality range of the products you use.



These are just some of my tips as I see to maybe save yourself a few minutes here and there. take them with a grain of salt if needed. In the end it`s all about the end result and not the hands on the clock though.

[imported_weekendwarrior]

jsatek - Interesting procedure and setup. I guess my question would be do you typically work on the same brands of cars? What I am getting at is you mention using the SIP and 106ff for every detail. I know a lot of single stage paints respond very well to Meguiar`s polishes for instance, whereas a Benz responds better to the Menzerna line. Do you ever find that your combo of polishes aren`t working, so you have to spend more time trying other products?

[imported_Detailing Technology]

I also don`t get how it takes 3 hours to wheel out the paint but only 60 seconds to wetsand it?



How are you taking off the wheels? 4 way lug wrench or impact? could shave off some minutes there as well if your using anything but the air compressor.



Can`t really comment on the products used because I`ve never used them. But It might be worth the while to check into other products that have less cure times. If you can find any in the same quality range of the products you use.

I like the leaf blower, its a little more quiet in the driveway than the shrill of a blow gun on a Saturday morning, I do these at my house.



I "spot" wet sand if necessary, not an entire panel. If there is a deep scratch or mark that will benefit forma sanding, I hit it.





I use and impact gun on some, the Lamborghini`s and Ferraris get a hand twist with a star. I do not want to buy one of those wheels if I slip and scuff it.



I think a lot of people get hung up on different chemicals for different paint manufacturers. I try to streamline the process by using 1 abrasive manufacturer for all paints. I have been most satusfied with 3m until I tried Optimum, now its Menzerna as a complete abrasives line. I have all of the Menzerna abrasive products, 106ff and SIP are just staples to get rolling. You can find a lot of flexibility with products when you try different pads to get going with SIP or 106ff. I recently used Zaino Z-PC just to mix it up, not worth it to me. Results are results as long as you get there. Not all cars need such aggressive resurfacing, the previously mentioned schedule just outlines a worst case scenario. 50% of my work is completed with a few passes of a SIP/106ff mix and a few different pads on the Makita to get all of the depper marks out.

Most of these cars are trophys, they all arrive in decent shape. The only cars I see that need SIP have been tortured by a tunnel wash or a local hand wash guy at their office park. I also recommend to my clients not to come to me more than 1 time per year.



I recently got into installing the clear film bras from 3M. My first will be an M5 on the weekend of the Super Bowl. This is also completely outsourced, the dealer quoted $995, the installer quoted me $400, I quoted the end user $650. The installer agreed to come to my house and do the work there. I went so far as to have the installer come by on Monday to see my garage so I dont get any lip from him on Saturday when I have the customers car here.

[gmblack3]

Jsatek- Wow good write up on process.. But I have a few questions. First off to any detailer out there. This whole paint gauge thing. I keep looking at it as pure hype. and I can`t seem to get past it. Why you ask? Because no matter how many times I check the paint my wheel has no clue what a micron is. now or ever will it be anywhere near as precise as that gauge. I can`t wheel that specific so in essence what does it really matter how thick the paint is? If it`s thin 99% of the time there are visable signs that it`s thin. I`ve just never understood the logical reasoning behind this gimmick outside of trying to "upsale" your customers because it looks "high tech" and whatnot. What`s the true reason behind the paint gauge?



second I read you use a compressor to blow out the interior but use a leaf blower to dry the car? Umm why? That might save you quite a bit of time right there. Get rid of the leaf blower. I`ve never understood that either. If I was a paying customer with a high end car and you (in general) show up to detail my car and pull out a leaf blower I would tell you right then and there to pack your stuff up and get off my property. It`s a huge sign of unprofessional imagery. I would look at it the same as a kid showing up to mow my 20 acres of lawn with a push mower. Especially if you already have the air compressor. Use it. Much more efficient, much quicker, and looks like you showed up on the spot with the professional tools of the trade. They have water sprite out there that absoultly do NOT marr the paint in any way shape or form. No need to not use the proper detailing tools in this case. (again these are only my opnions)



I also don`t get how it takes 3 hours to wheel out the paint but only 60 seconds to wetsand it? even per panel that dosen`t sound right about the wetsanding. How are you wetsanding? Maybe it something I could use to save off some time. Because I`ll take a half hour or more sometimes to do a thurough wetsand.



How are you taking off the wheels? 4 way lug wrench or impact? could shave off some minutes there as well if your using anything but the air compressor.



Can`t really comment on the products used because I`ve never used them. But It might be worth the while to check into other products that have less cure times. If you can find any in the same quality range of the products you use.



These are just some of my tips as I see to maybe save yourself a few minutes here and there. take them with a grain of salt if needed. In the end it`s all about the end result and not the hands on the clock though.

$600 for a PTG is allot of money till you burn thru the paint of a Ferrari or Lambo which I imagine is the type of cars that are being detailed for $700 by jsatek. Sure he could get a panel repainted for $300, but tell the client that his F430 will be ok with a repainted panel. :bat



Knowing if a car has already been polished a few times or maybe even wetsanded by using a PTG and knowing what the average paint thickness of that specific model is, could save your ashe big time. Yes I am sure that jsatek has insurance to cover burning paint, but like he says most of his business is by referral. So can he afford to really mess up one time?



Leaf blower-I am 99% sure that if a high end client asked jsateck why he uses a leaf blower to dry a car and he explained the reason to them.... :nixweiss



What it comes down to is that jsatek is not a hack down the street charging $80 for a detail.

[imported_Detailing Technology]

$600 for a PTG is allot of money till you burn thru the paint of a Ferrari or Lambo which I imagine is the type of cars that are being detailed for $700 by jsatek. Sure he could get a panel repainted for $300, but tell the client that his F430 will be ok with a repainted panel. :bat



Leaf blower-I am 99% sure that if a high end client asked jsateck why he uses a leaf blower to dry a car and he explained the reason to them.... :nixweiss



What it comes down to is that jsatek is not a hack down the street charging $80 for a detail.

I think I would be on the hook for the panel refinish AND depreciation of the vehicle if I caused it. On resale, some of the highline cars get hit up to $2000 per panel for a repaint. Even a GOOD repaint depreciates the hell out of them.



If Neiman Marcus made a leaf blower and it gave my clients something talk about to their friends, I`d buy it! I just only want to use the air gun with the garage closed, my neighbors are all new to me. If they compain, I will be out of luck.



My question is, when using the guage and you collect data of say, 120 microns, do you then stop polishing periodically and re-measure to guage how much clear you are removing? Then use a quick in your head formula of 30 seconds of SIP and a Blue Edge pad removes 30 microns of paint, I have to keep moving?





I think this is all on topic, we are talking about how to add value and design a process/experience for a client. Using bits out of this thread should help some defeat a customer objection and add value as to why they should do business with you over the other guy.

[imported_Jakerooni]

Absoultly.. I`m learning tons on this. There are alot of things I have not tried and getting the proper answers helps out a great deal. I can see the reasoning behind the PTG in that light. With the super high end cars that 99% of us will never ever see in real life it`s always good to have every precaution on the planet I would think.



And the leaf blower makes sense in the noise polution dept. definatly. Not something I`m accustomed to having never had to deal with mobil detailing just yet. Brick and mortor locations usually don`t have to deal with noise pollution concerns.

[8Banger]

wow, tons of good info in this thread...thank you all of you guys for helping me out. i have been going into details with potential customers, about how instead of moving 10 cars in 1 hour ill be spending 4-6 hours on one car and doing it the right way...i guess i cannot ge them all, but im taking everything you guys said into consideration and i will go about my "salesmanship" differently from now on. im actually about to photoshop some business cards up