New Detailers Association

[PrecisionOnline]

Good deal Scott. Registering my business cost me $50 here in NJ.

[imported_Intel486]

Cost me $75 to file for my LLC here.

Originally posted by PrecisionOnline

Intel,



How can you say detailing doesn`t take much skill?

I don`t want to start an arguement. I agree it does take skill to detail. Just not as much as compared to other organizations that have certifications.



I mainly see hackers as people who are 1) too lazy or 2) too concerned about a profit. Most of the hack jobs are people who see detailing as a quick buck. Let`s use cheap chemicals, do a quick job, and make some money.



Maybe it`s just gotten too easy to me but I see detailing as mostly labor. I do enjoy doing it though. I heard a saying about cooking that was, "Anyone who can read can cook." I guess I can go ahead and say, "Anyone who can read can detail."



The one thing that does take a large amount of skill in detailing is the rotary buffer. I will say that.

[jerry@robs]

I agree with Intel: While detailing can be considered as an art if done by a enthusiast, detailing as a job isn`t exactly "high skilled`. Pretty much any Tom, **** and Harry who wants to learn the basics can do it well as long as they WANT to do it well....



Back to the org thing, if it works out, can you extend it overseas? I`d love to be the first to be certified in our area

[andriver]

I am not a detailer but I am self employed. For years I have received mail from NASE (National Assoc. of the Self Employed). They pretty much offer the same benefits.



What I have noticed from all the mailings is that they are really trying to sell you insurance. I don`t know if the association is underwritten by an insurance company. The other benefits they offer such as supply discounts really don`t amount to much.



Anyway, just my .02

[ncal]

On the skill debate I have to agree with what the others have said. Detailing is highly laborious and artful in the way that anyone can do it. Sure, most people are abysmal at their methods and only a few detailers are truly artists but the fact remains that anyone who wants to make money detailing can head down to K-mart and load up on the gear. As far as certification goes, I`d love to get my ICAR certification as I`m fascinated with body work. But I honestly don`t have time. I`m sure there are many people who much busier than me to take a certification course. Personally, I think the truly talented people on this board know vast amounts regarding what and what can not be done to a vehicle without the need for a formal `class`. And all you have to do is read this board to read about the detailers in our areas that are making great money, few complaints, and are considered reputable by everyone BUT true detailers. Perhaps a shady detailer might not join for the discounts or insurance, but to have that sticker saying `PROUD MEMBER OF DETAILER INTERNATIONAL". . . All I`m trying to say is that there are a multitude of companies who are completely `legitimate` through paper, but they still lack scruples. (ie. Corporate America)

I don`t think anyone is trying to chase you out of this board, Autopia members are really laid back and open to new things, all you have to do is look at the Product Reviews forum and you`ll see we will try anything once. However, your Detailer Association idea raises important questions. I think it is hard to advertise membership saying you will offer what people ask through feedback because it hasn`t created an impetus to be interested.

Getting to join an association is just like advertising any business, and in this case detailers are asking `what is in it for me besides dues?` Right now the answer is Insurance aide, group buys, and TSBs. Nothing wrong with that, but that is what it comes across to many, even if that is not the entire scope.

[jlynntc]

Another question I would bring up would be, what about us weekend detailers that only do this on the side? I`m not going to run down to the clerks office for license then have the IRS laboring over account books trying to figure out how much I made on the side. Don`t get me wrong, I`m not a hack and I do spend good money on great equipment and products and take pride in the vehicles I do. I just don`t think certain things should be a requirement for those of us that do this for love more than money.



The Beer Man :p

[PrecisionOnline]

theveed,



Detailing is a highly skilled business when it comes to using a rotary buffer for paint correction; wheel indentification for using certain acids; proper engine detailing and stain identification for proper removal. Glad you`d like to join but you`d be our #2 Phillipine detailer, someone beat yout to it. :-)

[Detailing NY]

I read everyones post and thought about this a litte today.



This would be very hard to start up, it will not be easy. At first every detailer in the world will sign up.... why... because it`s free. Nothing is better then free advertisement.



Once you charge a fee for the this, only the detailers that are profiting from this will stay around. I can see more then 1/2 leaving once a charge is added.



But that might be a good thing, now what is left are the pro detailers and people that want to make this work.



This could go back & forth 100 x`s about why people should join and why people should not join. who want`s to pay and who does not want to pay.



The biggest thing is that everyone profits from it one way or another.



I can see many problems that come up.

Just because some one is registered business does not mean they can detail a car

Just because some one is not a registered business does not mean they suck at detailing.



I will go with it for now to see where it goes, and how it works.

[PrecisionOnline]

Maybe we forgot to add the association is going to be set-up as a not-for-profit organization, meaning the association will not be making a profit and we will be audited by an accountant for every dime we spend.

[Auto Care USA]

First I want to give you guys credit for trying to legitimize my profession. As far as the weekend detailer, if it were not for you guys and your mistakes I could not comand the big dollar. The average person will pay top dollar for quality. I am the most expensive detailer around and I am the busiest. Matter a fact I often here when I talk to a new customer, yes Mr Smith told me to call you and he may make a comment that you are good but you also are expensive. I have legitimized myseld by my service, workmanship and quality. Dollar for dollar our service cannot be compared. You show me another detailer who has loaner vehicles, tells his customers that if you are not happy with the job it`s FREE and most of all does a better job than the competition. They are even calling for rain tomorrow and all of my customers will show. This says alot for the work.

[detailbarn]

Originally posted by Auto Care USA

First I want to give you guys credit for trying to legitimize my profession. As far as the weekend detailer, if it were not for you guys and your mistakes I could not comand the big dollar. The average person will pay top dollar for quality. I am the most expensive detailer around and I am the busiest. Matter a fact I often here when I talk to a new customer, yes Mr Smith told me to call you and he may make a comment that you are good but you also are expensive. I have legitimized myseld by my service, workmanship and quality. Dollar for dollar our service cannot be compared. You show me another detailer who has loaner vehicles, tells his customers that if you are not happy with the job it`s FREE and most of all does a better job than the competition. They are even calling for rain tomorrow and all of my customers will show. This says alot for the work.

Well stated Auto Care! :xyxthumbs

[jerry@robs]

Originally posted by PrecisionOnline

theveed,



Detailing is a highly skilled business when it comes to using a rotary buffer for paint correction; wheel indentification for using certain acids; proper engine detailing and stain identification for proper removal. Glad you`d like to join but you`d be our #2 Phillipine detailer, someone beat yout to it. :-)

Hehe, really, who will that be? There aren`t a lot of us reading this board, so probably he`s a friend of mine...

[Anthony O.]

Originally posted by Jim Hammill

NY detailer, thanks for your questions.



Among many of the things we are trying to do for detailers are:



-assistance with Business Insurance and Health Insurance

-Buying groups for discounts

-Networking opportunities

-Training certification

- Providing Technical Information Sheets , which the Department of Automotive Technology at The Southern University of Illinois Carbondale is assisiting us in the production of.

-Annual conventions, golf outtings, dinners, awards, etc.

-Tried and tested detailing products -- give the "PDTA Seal of Approval"

-Assistance with OSHA and EPA compliance.

-Marketing programs



All of these ideas have come from other detailers who have told us this is what they want from an association. Please visit the web site and take the survey, tell us what you would like an association to provide for you. This association will be run by detailers for detailers, providing practical advice from people who are out working in the industry on a day to day basis.



Thanks.



Jim.

This is a nice thought but I personally don`t see it becoming a reality. Why? Well because who says you are qualified to call me an "expert"?



I mean no disrespect to Jim or Brian, I have a great deal of respect for Brian as a person and a detailer, he does great work BUT again who is qualified to call another an "expert" or to say they now have a certificate in auto detailing? Detailing is far too subjective and I myself might attend a class and flunk because I want to do things my way. My way works for me but it may not work for the other guy, or the guy teaching the class. He tells me to always charge this much for this job or use this glaze over this cleaner but not this wax over this sealant and I disagree, so in that case what happens to me? Again detailing is far too subjective to be mandated.



What if I don`t want to use the "Official PDTA" stamp of approval products?



What if the products I am using now are already "tried and tested" by me?



What if I don`t like to socialize and go out and have dinner?



What if I hate golf?



What if I don`t need insurance or a business license in my state?



What then am I paying for?





The hack detailers will always be there, they will come and go like high tide, so an association will not help here because it is not illegal to be a hack detailer like it is illegal to practice medicine without proper schooling. I know some weekend warriors that do better work than "pro" detailers with a shop, insurance, nice T-shirts and a EPA qualified discharge system. So this "pro" detailer sees the weekend warrior doing some work on the side and goes and tells the PDTA......so what can they do?



Like Autocare wrote, I make money from the hacks when they screw up a car. I am also the most expensive detailer around my parts and I am not losing any work because of it.



If certification meant anything special then there wouldn`t be so many darn lawsuits against doctors, lawyers and auto mechanics.



This may sound all negative but I do wish Brian and Jim the best.....who knows 10 years from now we may all thank Brian and Jim for their charting uncharted territory.



As for now I would not join nor do I have much interest in it.



Anthony

[imported_Intel486]

Let me put this idea up.



Maybe the organization needs for right now to give up the idea of claiming the detailers in the group to not be hacks and to be experts. Give up the idea of certification. Maybe in the future it can be implemented but focus on something else.



Why not make it an organization of detailers who work for profit (Prove they are registered to do business in their state and pay taxes.)



You can then provide services that non-hack detailers would appreciate. Help provide insurance, provide TSB, provide information about marketing, information about running your business, etc. The Hackers probably won`t want to pay the money for that so they`ll leave. In time people will begin to recognize that detailers that belong to the group are probably better detailers than other.



You might also want to come up with a list of rules that members should agree to such as the BBB`s "Code of Advertising"

[3Dog]

My dream is to be AutoCare USA someday!