Different Synthetic Types

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07-02-2004, 12:56 AM
TheSopranos16

Different Synthetic Types

I know that you can usually get an idea of how a product will work by what it is made of. In general, we all know that carnauba bassed products look best on dark cars and synthetics last the longest. But, there are a few different types of synthetic. You have Klasse which is an acrylic formula, and things like EX-P or autoglym which are resins. Then, most others are a polymer formula. There might be other types but these are the three that I am aware of. So, my question is, is there any general statements that can be made about the different types of synthetics? Perhaps something to help differentiate them and help us all to better understand the pros and cons of products bassed on what they are made of. Maybe one type has a warmer look versus another or perhaps one is longer lasting. This is a difficult question to answer because most of us don`t really know much about making the products, we can only draw conclusions bassed on using the different products of the different types. Its going to take an expert to shed light on this...who is up for the challange?

-Charles
07-02-2004, 02:08 AM
Intel486

From what I`ve heard from several experts in the field are that the Amino-Functional resins usually test the most durable and from what I`ve seen that proves to be true. Most warranty sealants I`ve looked at are Amino-Functional Polymer Resins (Hey, look, a polymer!) and I doubt if they`re offering a warranty on something, they`d use a weak polymer. I believe EX-P is such a resin, also, but I`m sure poorboy can come along and tell us more.

The problem for people on the consumer side is that the MSDS sheets don`t really tell us what`s in the products. The stuff we want to know about the resins, etc. are usually classified as a proprietary substance and doesn`t have to be listed. What can we do then? *shrug*

I haven`t looked into what "polymers" are used in detailing but I do not even pay attention to that word anymore. Too many companies are claiming this is a carnauba with a "polymer" in it and it`ll last longer, etc. The problem is a LOT of substances can be considered a polymer. It really does mean nothing on the chemical level to prove how good a product is. Heck, the plastic in your keyboard is a polymer! Polytetrafluoroethylene is one example... you know, teflon?... It`s been claimed to be some awesome detail product (of course by the company trying to sell the wax) but technical data sheets from that polymer`s creator (DuPont) says it has to be heated up to high temps (like 500 degrees +) for a period of time to stick to the surface. Paint can`t even stand up to those temps! Then how does it bond?!

I just know no product with a carnauba will ever match a pure synthetic. Carnaubas will always create a wetter, deeper surface though. Personally, use a synthetic and top with a carnauba. Works for me.

I say, look at what waxes other people are using and decide for yourself. Many people will use a product and you`ll be able to see the durability. If you can get your hands on any professionally done Wax Test, then go ahead and get it... not some group of guys in their back yard...

Edit: Just realized as I was looking at an MSDS that the safe silicones in dressings are also a polymer. They`re sometimes also used in waxes as a lubricant and probably also stuck in waxes to fill in swirls... Hey, they`re is your carnauba wax with a polymer! Funny how you can easily abuse common terms.
07-02-2004, 07:35 AM
Poorboy

Well here`s my 2 cents....what is in products and how it`s made will never be available to the general public...as Intel said, MSDS are worthless other than for accidents and large spills.
As for what will last the longest, that question has way too many variables to get an exact answer.
A pure product will "almost" always last longer than a polymer, but there are few "pure" chemicals.
Chemist need to mix other products in as carriers, thickeners, and protectants. I bet most of you don`t know that many products have biocides in them...hmmm you say what`s a biocide? Basically it prevent your products from getting mold. To answer the teflon question, first teflon is a brand name of Dupont,not a chemical, the chemical used to make teflon is used in many products under other names as a carrier, not as the protector, even though some companies say "contains teflon" ..a bit misleading but many people read into it what they want.
Well that`s about it for me:)
I may not be a chemist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once:D :lmfao
07-02-2004, 08:24 AM
rabbi

Steve you misspelled INN !:lmfao. He is correct though. Many of the products the company I work for makes has a preservative added to it so the bugs (microorganisms)don`t eat it Amazing but true. I didn`t stay at a Holiday Inn Express I`ve just worked in this field for 27 yrs.:lmfao . No I`m not an expert by any means. Rick
07-02-2004, 08:34 AM
JaredPointer

To ask more about the Teflon...One of my coworkers asked me about this new Teflon product line. I have never used it. What`s the story on it??
07-02-2004, 08:40 AM
Poorboy

:lol Rick I fixed it:D ...Jared as pointed out above , the only way Teflon can really work is to be bonded at extreme temperatures, like your frying pans or the space shuttle, but if you use one drop in a product to help with "flow" , and pay Dupont a lot of $$$, then it`s legal to claim you have it in the product.
07-02-2004, 10:55 AM
freedre

Re: Different Synthetic Types

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSopranos16
So, my question is, is there any general statements that can be made about the different types of synthetics? Perhaps something to help differentiate them and help us all to better understand the pros and cons of products bassed on what they are made of. Maybe one type has a warmer look versus another or perhaps one is longer lasting. This is a difficult question to answer because most of us don`t really know much about making the products, we can only draw conclusions bassed on using the different products of the different types. Its going to take an expert to shed light on this...who is up for the challange?

-Charles

Getting back to the question from Tony and the boys

I have the same question. Is there a `general use/product statement` that we can use to distinguish the products? It would be very helpful, especially when we start mixing items, like EX over UPP, etc.

C`mon - someone must have an insight.

I have stayed in a lot of Holiday INNs, but never learned a thing about chemistry.
07-07-2004, 10:55 PM
TheSopranos16

Just wanted to bring back this old thread...no one can answer this?!?!?!
07-08-2004, 01:34 AM
Intel486

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSopranos16
Just wanted to bring back this old thread...no one can answer this?!?!?!

Forget the term polymer. It means nothing. A lot of things a polymers.

We can`t say what`s better. An acrylic or a silicone resin. It really depends on how they are formulated and the chemical structure of the product. There is no way to say, "Hey, that`s a acrylic it`ll work better than a silicone resin."

We`d need information that they won`t ever give us.