detail said 3 times only?!!! true?

Hey all...

A friend of mine has been using this detailer, Jack, to do alot of his cars. His work is excellent - I`ve used him to knock out a few dents (PDR) and also to `cut and polish` the car. Anyway I was talking to him today as I needed a few things done. The topic came up about using a compound as I said I wanted to get rid of all the swirls on my car. He used a 3M compound when he cut and polish my car... I havent asked which though - but yeh it turned out beautifully, the paint looks really good (this was about 8 months ago).

The only thing he said "I wouldnt cut it again because I took a fair bit of paint off to remove the scratches, and bring up the shine". So I said "how many times could you cut and polish the paint" - he said "with factory, probably maximum 3 times. After that you`ll find theres no paint left". 3 TIMES!!! THREE! Is this really true? I was planning on using DACP with a rotary to get rid of the swirls....now I`m worried it will be too abrasive and take off too much paint.

If I used a PC with DACP, would it take off much paint? I mean, I dont want the paint so thin afterwards that it looks all strange .... rather keep the swirls then?!!

Three times shocked me though ... unless he used a very abrasive 3m product? (i didnt think they were more than dacp on the meg`s abrasive scale though.).

Woudl it be safe to use DACP? There are ALOT of swirls....like, in the sun - literally millions covering every part of the paint. BUT, the paint itself is really good ... shiny and excellent (considering it hasnt been waxed or polished for ages).

What are peoples opinions on this? Should I use something less abrasive? Could my paint be so thin that its not safe to use any compound? I`m becoming really paranoid now ...

BTW its only been "compounded"/cut and polished the once... (only time was this guy).

Thanks heaps,
Andrew

I don`t know any product that is that abrasive. I don`t think that Jack knows `jack`. I have used DACP probably 7 times now and it is fine. Its not abrasive enough to remove all your paint after 3 times. I`ve used Diamond Cut on my trunk 3 times and there is still plenty of paint left. You aren`t removing paint anyway. It is just rounding off and leveling the clear coat. Its not removing that much at all.

Now, considering that you say there are millions of swirls I would question if DACP is going to be effective enough for you. You can give it a shot and see how well it works. Just do the hood and see how it comes out. There is no point in doing the entire car and then finding out it wasn`t strong enough. You may have to bump up to something stronger than DACP that works with a PC. I leanred recently that Diamond Cut is for wool pads and not best for a PC. The one right below Diamond Cut would work better with a PC, according to Mike Phillips.

Give DACP a shot and see what it does. It is possible you have some oxidation on the surface and the swirls are just in that. DACP would remove the oxidation and all the swirls with it. Its worth a shot. Try it out and check your work frequently to see how it goes. Your paint isn`t thin and there is nothing to worry about. Jack is just trying to make you paranoid so you don`t dare do it yourself and have to pay him to do it for you. ;) If he thinks he is actually removing paint then he has a lot to learn about detailing. He isn`t really removing that much.

Sad to say, but your friends in the ball park... with the paint on most new vehicles in the 3-4 mil range, it doesn`t take much to buff through the clear. Of course, the damage might not show for quite some time, but with a heavy compound, there is a high risk of damage after the third time.

If the vehicle is well maintained on a weekly/monthly basis the most it might need would be some light polishing once a year. Your friend seems wise in protecting himself from the liability issue of the cost of a new paint job -- which to me is quite wise.

As an example of what exactly 3-4 mils ... one of the hairs from down there is about a mil.

He probally right......Reason being, if he is like me, I usually use a paint gauge to measure how much paint is acutally on the car before I "cut" it. Pretty much all of 3M professional products are abrasive stuff and that`s why really not many detail folks use them. You`ll mostly see them in use at body shops. I use two 3M products and the only bad opinons I have with them is you have to use a rotary with 3M pads to effect anything. I have found that you really have to "break down" or machine their product down to nothing with lots of heat/friction. I knida don`t like doing that too often with the cars I do......

I`ve only used DACP with a PC (polishing pad) once, but I use SSR1 about once a month... I don`t think I`ll run into any problems... and my truck is a `98.

Also, I know that I can polish more than 3 times with a PC... I`ve done it! If your talking about rotary, I can see using something like SSR3 more than 3x could do some damage, maybe even DACP... but not with a PC and a light polish.

I use a paint gauge as well, I find most brand new cars can vary anywhere from 7-10 mils, I have learned that when you have to really compound the heck outta a finish due to things like 45 million passes through a car wash you can easily take 3 mills off in a hurry to level the paint. Considering though that about 2 mils of that which is measured is primer on a factory car, it doesn`t leave much room for error. Granted, I have seen some with 12 mils, but those are far and few in between, and if the car is repainted it can have as many as 15, if it isn`t sauced to death so the gauge actually works. If the main goal is to polish what is there it can be done, most I have noticed for removing swirls is a 1 mil loss, but if he just compounded the heck outta it and left it swirly, maybe he knows something you don`t about what`s left? One time is usually acceptable but that depends on how bad the finish was before, I have done rigs that I REFUSED to polish again down the road because I knew there wasn`t any room for error. If you do not have a gauge go to a competent body shop and ask them to digitally gauge your car, usually they do it for free because it could turn into a paint job (:( ), but if you have 6 mils, no fear, removing swirls should be fine, just take extra care of it in the future to avoid any blemishes that could result in a nightmare buff. Good luck!

BTW, my car when I got it had been overly washed by the local spin and slap carwash, I had 8 mils, took it down to 6, and have polished it twice since, still looked awesome, but a freind of mine repainted it for me after a hit and run, but I was afraid to polish it again with anything other than an orbital or Porter, which I didn`t have at the time.

now aheyn has got me all paranoid now. How much does other products remove normally? ex the SSR`s, PP, AIO...Should I worry about "chem" polishes since I use them very frequently?

Part of the issue too is that one area of the paint can be one thickness and somewhere else it can be something less. Around sharp edges and curves the paint is removed much more quickly from buffing than on straight panels. What can happen is that the clearcoat can be buffed dangerously thin in one area and not in another.

Does the 3M Compound have DIMINSHING QUALITIES?
What tpye of PAD did he use on the vehicle?
All of these factors and more play alot on the vehicles paint history as far as buffing and polishing

Does the 3M Compound have DIMINSHING QUALITIES?
What tpye of PAD did he use on the vehicle?
All of these factors and more play alot on the vehicles paint history as far as buffing and polishing

anything that is called a compound will have some ability to remove your clearcoat, it depends on the nature of the grit. Fast cuts remove alot all at once, light cuts still remove but not as much, stick to swirl removers to remove swirl, they barely take off anything, I use the meguairs and a Yellow finish pad sold by carproductsinc.com for swirl marks, does nice, then I move on to orbital polishing from there. What type of car, amke year and color are we talking here, everything comes into play when buffing, some buff easy, like dodge and mitsu`s, other are tough as nails, like Caddy`s and many upper end cars. What it takes to remove swirls on a red mitsu is nothing compared to a blue caddy, hehe!!