Tips to acheive a flawless finish with M205 and a DA polisher

Getting a better finish from Meguiar`s M205 Ultra Finishing Polish.

Meguiar`s M205 Ultra Finishing Polish is an extremely fine, non-diminishing abrasive polish which is designed to remove light buffing marks and swirl marks while creating a high-gloss finish. The non-diminishing abrasives make this a unique finishing polish which may require tweaking to common polishing techniques in order to get the best possible finish.

“Shorten your work time considerably”

As opposed to many finishing polishes, you will achieve a better result when using a short work time with Meguiar`s M205 Ultra Finishing Polish.

Why? When using most traditional finishing polishes (which have abrasives that break down) you have to work the polish for a while to get the best possible result. Aluminum oxide (commonly used) abrasives are like a bushel of grapes stuck together, known as abrasive clusters. As you polish friction causes these grapes separate (the abrasive diminishes). Once the abrasive cluster has fully broken down (all of the grapes are separated) the polish cannot become any finer. These grapes are called the `primary crystal abrasive`. A common misconception is that if you keep polishing you can reduce the abrasive to almost nothing, but this isn`t the case. Aluminum Oxide is a 9 (diamond is a 10) on the Mohs Scale of Hardness. You can break them apart but you cannot eliminate them.

Meguiar`s M205 Ultra Finishing Polish uses a non-diminishing abrasive, which means it is made of primary crystals instead of clustered primary crystals. Working it longer will not improve the surface quality because you are already starting with a fully diminished polish. There is no benefit in working the polish longer, in fact it is detrimental.

This is because as you polish paint (even with micro-fine abrasives) you are removing a small amount of paint from the surface. This abraded paint contaminate the abrasives and act like an adhesive that temporarily binds the abrasives together (the opposite of diminishing) which will reduce the quality of the finish.

Since Meguiar`s M205 is fully broken down and abraded paint will reduce the quality of finish, you will generally get best results from using a short work time. Polish until the desired result is achieved then stop, generally 20-30 seconds per section.

“Keep pressure on the dual-action polisher through out the buffing cycle”

It has been a common suggestion to reduce pressure on your last pass or two over a working area. While this practice has benefit when using a rotary polisher that moves the pad in a circular fashion it has some unwanted results when using a dual-action polisher. While it is arguably more important when using a non-diminishing polish such as M205, to achieve maximal results when finishing with a dual-action polisher maintain firm and consistent pressure through out the polishing cycle with any finishing polish.

Why? One of the benefits of a dual-action polisher is that they move the pad across the paint in two distinct patterns, an orbital motion and a circular motion. This random action, if used correctly, is beneficial to the polishing process for a number of reasons. The pad is always in a constant state of acceleration, both positively and negatively. When downward pressure is reduce the pad will begin to absorb the orbital motion, much like a blob of Jello jiggling on itself. This causes on even pressure between the contact area of the pad and the paint which can result in an uneven finish. Keeping even pressure on the machine ensures that a higher percentage of the beneficial orbital-motion is transferred through the pad, to the paint.

“Use a slower speed for your finishing cycle”

To achieve the highest gloss possible with Meguiar`s M205 Ultra Finishing Polish you will want to set your random orbital dual-action polisher to a lower speed setting, perhaps speed 3-4. If you are trying to correct minor swirl marks or buffer marks as well as final polishing, start your buffing cycle at speed 5-6 then reduce the speed to 3-4 for the final 2-3 passes over the working area.

Why? When a higher orbital speed is used on a random orbital polisher, the pattern created by the two patterns becomes more violent. Dual Action polishers create a curly-q pattern as a result of the two movements. With a slow orbital speed and firm pressure the pad will rotate slowly, which results in gently curved curly-q`s. When high speed or light pressure is used the pad rotates faster, which results in the curly-q pattern being pulled tight as the pad rapidly slows, stops, pivots 180 degrees then accelerates again. Any attached abrasives are ground into the paint.

For an analogy consider you are walking in a straight line but want to do a 360. You can gently turn to one direction and continue to walk in a curved pattern until you complete your turn, which point you should be back were you started with little drama. OR you can stop, pivot sharply on your heel quickly, and with a little luck and balance continue on your way. If you had abrasives attached to your feet you would obviously cause little damage as gently walked in a circle, but you would create some abrasion as you pivoted on your heel.

“Clean your pad often”

To achieve the highest possible finish with Meguiar`s M205 Ultra Finishing Polish it is ideal to clean the polishing pad after each panel, and when dealing with extremely soft or hard to finish paint, in the middle of a pass.

Why? As mentioned earlier abraded paint residue will reduce the performance of Meguiar`s M205 Ultra Finishing Polish, or any other polish. Meguiar`s M205 seems to be more sensitive to it. Cleaning the pad with compressed air, a pad brush, or a microfiber towel pressed against the pad will offer the best benefit to achieving a high gloss finish.

On difficult (to finish) or soft paints you tend to remove more material which makes cleaning the pad more important. Cleaning the pad half way through a buffing cycle can make a huge difference in the finish achieved on difficult paints.

“Conclusion”

Many of the tips and suggestions above are beneficial to finishing with a dual-action polisher and any finishing polish. Meguiar`s M205 Ultra Finishing Polish can certainly be more sensitive to technique than other finishing polishes and there are certain paints that will not finish 100%. Before reaching for another ultra fine polish give the tips above a try. The benefits of a quick working cycle can pay huge dividends when attempting to create a flawless finish.

Hmm. I wonder if this thread was instigated by a recent thread about a black Mustang?

I always enjoy your posts, Todd. :yourrock Not only good advice, but, more importantly, the why. This allows the information to be carried on to other tools and products and makes people think about the process as much as the results.:bigups

Thanks Todd for the great thread /info.

Im curious though since the flex DA is an animal of its own if the same advice applies?

That was some good information, thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd Helme

[B]
Since Meguiar`s M205 is fully broken down and abraded paint will reduce the quality of finish, you will generally get best results from using a short work time. Polish until the desired result is achieved then stop, generally 20-30 seconds per section.

---

When dividing into sections and considering working time.....
What size is recommended?
And does hotter temperatures come into play of M205 behavior...?

Awesome approach to the use of M205 Maestro.....

Great info.....

Thanks Todd....I think this will greatly help me in the near future...

Great info Todd. I love using 205. It is a great polish for many different applications.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by juliom2

When dividing into sections and considering working time.....
What size is recommended?
And does hotter temperatures come into play of M205 behavior...?

Awesome approach to the use of M205 Maestro.....

Great info.....

---

Great questions. I wondered the same thing when I read it.

I think you only want to work the section until you get the desired results and no longer

Great thread Todd and an awesome job describing how things work too. :bigups :yourrock

This method has helped me considerably when finishing on my soft Acura paint. I also feel people write of M205 too quickly if they don`t get great results right away. Instead they add an additional step by deciding to follow it up with PO85RD when in reality they could have saved time and the additional step if they just taken a step back and tweak their technique a little.

Granted not all paints will finish 100%.


EDIT: You should add Kevin`s pen illustration too. ;)

Very well written and good chunk on info, Todd.

This saved my butt on an original paint, SS Miata last month. Good info Todd, thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by juliom2

When dividing into sections and considering working time.....
What size is recommended?
And does hotter temperatures come into play of M205 behavior...?

Awesome approach to the use of M205 Maestro.....

Great info.....

---

I tried to leave specifics (such as working time/section size/pad selection) to a minimum and so people could refine their personal techniques. If I were to give very generic answers I would say that a 2`x2` square is a good section size, 15-30 seconds is about as long as the product should be worked (for solely finishing).

As far as temperature, I have personally found the M205 is fairly constant in most enviornmental conditions, and have only seen it act up when using it in extreme heat/direct sunlight.

Thanks for the compliments amigo!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaskyR1

Great thread Todd and an awesome job describing how things work too. :bigups :yourrock

This method has helped me considerably when finishing on my soft Acura paint. I also feel people write of M205 too quickly if they don`t get great results right away. Instead they add an additional step by deciding to follow it up with PO85RD when in reality they could have saved time and the additional step if they just taken a step back and tweak their technique a little.

Granted not all paints will finish 100%.


EDIT: You should add Kevin`s pen illustration too. ;)

---

Thanks Chad! I (obviously) agree that M205 can get you all of the way there, although there is nothing wrong with grabbing PO85rd if that helps get the best gloss possible for a particular paint. I also agree that some paints, no matter what you do, will just not finish 100% with M205, but I always try tweaking my technique prior to switching products.

Even when using PO85rd, I will use many of the same techniques, except using a longer working time. I will clean the pad half way through the cycle, reduce speed, etc, and feel I can easily achieve a rotary quality `jewelled look`.

A DA is not a rotary, which is why many rotary guys cannot get the same results when they use a DA. Two totally different tools that require two totally different techniques in order to get the maximum finish.

Thanks Todd...

This is much appreciated and informative. :yourrock

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd Helme

Even when using PO85rd, I will use many of the same techniques, except using a longer working time. I will clean the pad half way through the cycle, reduce speed, etc, and feel I can easily achieve a rotary quality `jewelled look`.

---

you said to work in m205 20-30 sec per section as a general rule. so with po85rd you said to work it in longer how much longer do you think you would like 30-45 secs?