Rotary… yes/no with todays abrasives, and other offerings?

To put this post in context:

-getting older and body likes “easier”. Plus time is more valuable.
- not a pro, cars are daily drivers. Don’t need perfect. My mantra is now…….
- clean shiny paint/scratches, clean tires, clear glass.

I still do a twice a year decon, iron remover, clay, polish (more like a super paint cleaning) then a sealant and wax.

I like my cars looking nice, and clean waxed paint is easier to wash a and dry (point number one above)

I had settled on the rupes 15mm machine and the rupes pads. Abrasive is rupes, and 3D (Uno protect and speed) as well as rupes fine/coarse, and one.

‘’perfectly happy with the setup. Machines are smooth. Don’t fix what ain’t broke right?

well, I bought a Bauer rotary from harbour frieght. I did this for the Flanagan car seat method. (Point number one above.. faster and easier). It’s awesome. I love it.

but because I’m detail oriented I went down the YouTube rotary rabbit hole. There are 2 schools of thought:

1. Burn paint, danger, run away, practice on a junk hood. (Rupes is in this camp.

2. Concerns are overblown, abrasives,are,good. Low speed, low pressure, waffle pads (clean pads) and all is good. Ivan is in this camp. Ivan cuts with da and finishes with rotary.

‘’obviously at the end of the day it’s just buffing paint and there are many roads and the same destination is achieved more or less.

I have respect for both camps and I’m not sure if I should go down the rabbit hole. As I said I’m quite happy with my process. The rupes machines are the smoothest of the da’s I’ve used.

‘’in fact the ONLY reason I’m considering polishing with a rotary is I e discovered they have absolutely ZERO vibration. None, zip, nada. We’re it not for buying one for the Flanagan method this post would not be made.

as much as I’m happy with the rupes polishing if I can take the vibration from “very little” to absolutely nothing then I’m in. My body will thank me even more.

‘’call me silly but I did a quick practice run on my us general tool cart and a cheap pad. The rotary reminded me instantly of my 23 years as a school caretaker. I’ve spent hundreds of hours on the floor polisher. Basically a massive rotary. It’s all in the technique. My first time I got thrown into the lockers. By the end of the shift I could polish a floor with one hand. At the end of the week I could switch hands, and even spin around.

the rotary car polisher is almost the same thing.

watching the rupes videos had me thinking stick to the 15mm. But watching Ivan talk about the rotary got me thinking why not?

plus he’s Canadian. So am I. Home team bias, lol.

thoughts??

Rotary user, learned as a child...

Sounds like you really have the Rupes process dialed in.. Great !

Loved the story of using the Floor buffer.. And yes, it is a giant rotary, and you mastered it.. And yes, you can learn how to use and balance a rotary on a vehicle, but you have much more around you, that you do not want to touch with the edge of the backing plate and/or pad..

Really great Boat Detailer friend of mine can balance his really heavy Dewalt 849X I believe, with one hand but there is lots and lots of gelcoat with nothing in the way for miles... :)

Any Rotary unless it is cheap, chinese junk, will be heavier and bigger..

Any Rotary will require lots of attention to technique, and keeping the pad as flat as much as possible.. 5 inch pads are the easiest to learn on and control, than smaller or bigger sizes, in my experience..

Careful speed, downward pressure, a balance of this, and enough moisture to keep everything going until it pretty much goes away, is the key to being happy with the results.. It has to be this way, because it is direct drive; no kind-of direct drive, no plastic parts, no jiggling, etc., it is ON and things can go quickly..

You mention Bauer, is that Chinese??? Will probably be a little lighter, and may not be as reliable...

Flex of Germany, made some Rotary models awhile back that were smaller and lighter, but I believe they did not include 600rpm soft start, and started at 1200rpm, or something like that, and this is not what I like to be at, from the start... And they make a lot of loud gear noise..

I have never in my experience wanted to start with a random orbital, and then finish with a rotary... It should be the
opposite... :)

Perhaps this is because of some miracle product that likes to be slowly massaged, jiggled, etc., and then come back and finish it down with direct drive??? To me, why bother?? :)
To each his own...:)

Dan F

Long before there were long-throw polishers and foam pads , there were rotaries and wool pads. But those were also the days of lacquer and enamel paints; single stage paints. The point is that rotaries are STILL the defacto-standard for the the body-shop and paint shop because of its machine efficiency in correcting/finishing down on new paint. Or the fiberglass/gel-coat users, like boats and RVs.

The "great debate" has been, "Can a long-throw polisher and foam and/or microfiber pads finish down as well and as fast as a rotary and wool pads or newer foam hybrid pads ?" It really is the wrong question because the "real question" to the above debated question is "Who is the operator of the machine and how good are they at using it?" Each polishing machine has its advantages and disadvantages.

So which is one right for you? I think you`ve told us your decision already.

Here`s the kicker to this story. When Lake Country Power Tool announced it`s development of a User-Selectable Multi-Throw stroke machine, I thought it would be the end-all, do-all buffing tool for all the buffing situations that professional and hobbyist detailers face and make it THE MACHINE that everyone must have. Then a rotary-function was added to the design parameters. And the development took longer and its release was delayed. It did finally get released 2-1/2 years after it`s initial announcement, but when it`s production design became available for sale to the general detailing public, it was deemed too heavy and too expensive. Add to the fact that this is a corded (IE, needs an electrical cord to plug in to use) design and that new offerings from other polisher manufacturers are cordless (IE, high-voltage, rechargeable battery pack powered) designs, the User-Defined Orbital Stroke (UDOS) polisher SEEMS to be an obsoleted design just as it`s being released.
Personally, I still think it is an engineering marvel that LC Power Tool would even attempt this design that is now reality, as that was an idea that I had many years ago, but I thought it was much like the perpetual-motion machine; a great concept but impossible to do.
Would I own one? MAYBE when its design is refined, the weight reduced, and made more affordable. As with all designs, there are trade-offs and compromises, along with time-constraints and cost-considerations. At this time I do not know if LC Power Tool will pursue this course of evolutionary product development, revision, and production. Like I said, it is a marvel that it even exists!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stokdgs

Rotary user, learned as a child...

Sounds like you really have the Rupes process dialed in.. Great !

Loved the story of using the Floor buffer.. And yes, it is a giant rotary, and you mastered it.. And yes, you can learn how to use and balance a rotary on a vehicle, but you have much more around you, that you do not want to touch with the edge of the backing plate and/or pad..

Really great Boat Detailer friend of mine can balance his really heavy Dewalt 849X I believe, with one hand but there is lots and lots of gelcoat with nothing in the way for miles... :)

Any Rotary unless it is cheap, chinese junk, will be heavier and bigger..

Any Rotary will require lots of attention to technique, and keeping the pad as flat as much as possible.. 5 inch pads are the easiest to learn on and control, than smaller or bigger sizes, in my experience..

Careful speed, downward pressure, a balance of this, and enough moisture to keep everything going until it pretty much goes away, is the key to being happy with the results.. It has to be this way, because it is direct drive; no kind-of direct drive, no plastic parts, no jiggling, etc., it is ON and things can go quickly..

You mention Bauer, is that Chinese??? Will probably be a little lighter, and may not be as reliable...

Flex of Germany, made some Rotary models awhile back that were smaller and lighter, but I believe they did not include 600rpm soft start, and started at 1200rpm, or something like that, and this is not what I like to be at, from the start... And they make a lot of loud gear noise..

I have never in my experience wanted to start with a random orbital, and then finish with a rotary... It should be the
opposite... :)

Perhaps this is because of some miracle product that likes to be slowly massaged, jiggled, etc., and then come back and finish it down with direct drive??? To me, why bother?? :)
To each his own...:)

Dan F

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ya the Bauer is a China made buffer. I bought it specifically for cleaning my seats. Nothing else…. Except I’m contemplating buying a pad and see.

actually the da cuts better than a rotary and a rotary finnishes better. Ivan says so, and I just watched a video comparing da, forced, da, and rotary. The da cut through the clear before the rotary and forced.

Ya that lake country duo machine looks fantastic. Ahead of it’s time for sure.

so for me the question,isn’t can a da finish down as good as a rotary. I. Totally happy with my rupes 15. But I was surprised the rotary has no vibration. I mean the rupes is very very minimal. But none, is none.

I figure why not just buy one pad to try it out (rotary)?

To me it comes down to choosing the right tool for the job. Me and a Makita on a million dollar car. This spoiler was severely scratched and repairing with the rotary was my choice. I could have spent time with the "Flex 3401" at the time, the rotary just cleared up the damage quicker. I "read" the paint as I work. I don`t just make passes over a 2 x 2 area. I watch through the polish to see what`s happening and adjust my tool to serve its purpose.

https://i.postimg.cc/rRdGdFfG/JD-F40.jpg

BringADetailer:
It is obvious to me that you are a TRUE detailing professional when:
1) Someone trust you enough to detail their a million-dollar car;
2)) You can "read the paint" as you buff/polish with your Makita rotary.
I think a vast majority of so-called "detailers" have NO CLUE what reading the paint entails, and I unabashedly admit I am in that "clueless" category.
Much like Dale Earnhardt Senior`s ability to "see" the wind vortexes coming off a NASCAR stock car, which allowed him to draft and position his car to take the air off his opponents` car to get by them, so too is your ability to read the paint as you buff. It`s one of those innate skills that either you have or you don`t.

By the way, Congratulations and Thank You for your FIRST POST. I personally hope you find this detailing forum to be useful to your detailing and will continue to post your thoughts about the topic subjects within this forum. Your first post tells me you have a wealth of detailing experience and insight to share that all of us Autopians can benefit from.

Thank you Lonnie. I joined to read and learn about what new products people are using and to share info when I can.

Just to update, and if anyone cares:

been using the rotary with optimum and rupes waffle pads, and optimum line of spray polish.

I use yvans techniques or method aka damp clean pad, low speed, no pressure. Very pleased.

honeslty I can’t see any difference at the end of the day but the rotary is hands down a smoother experience.

not sure if I’ll upgrade the cheap,rotary to a rupes. I’m not so much polishing to perfection these days as I am “super paint cleaning” prior to a coating, or spray sealant/wax.

I know someone with 40 years of experience who burned through paint with a rotary. Luckily it was his own vehicle. I`d stick with a foamed wool or MF pad and a long throw polisher. Should be able to removed defects with less chance of an issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wannafbody

I know someone with 40 years of experience who burned through paint with a rotary. Luckily it was his own vehicle. I`d stick with a foamed wool or MF pad and a long throw polisher. Should be able to removed defects with less chance of an issue.

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do you have more detail? Years of experience doesn’t mean much if it’s “wrong”. (Not saying buddy was wrong. )

I’ll look for the rag company video. They try and burn paint with a rotary, da, and forced rotation. The da burnt paint the easiest/quickest.

Without knowing the rest of the experience, I find it hard to understand how anyone with "40 years of experience, etc.." "burned through paint with a rotary, etc.."

I always use my Highline Meter II Before, and During, Any paint correction on Every Vehicle...Even my own...

Certainly and most importantly, the actual Product used, the Process, And the type of Pad have everything to do with this going good, or not so good..

I will Never start Any correction with my favorite Lake Country Purple Foam Wool Pads, which I Only use on things that are obviously, really messed up, and I know the paint is hard as a rock, like Airplane Paint, etc... And even then, I absolutely Measure that surface before, during, and after, to get an idea how much I am removing vs the level of correction achieved...

And I will Always use the Rotary for paint correction first, and if possible, finish with it too... If the paint is more finicky when warmed, I might try to see if the Flex 3401VRG might be able to help finish it, with the absolutely lightest Polish, etc., to get maximum clarity and gloss..

All my vehicles, my Client`s vehicles, come out perfectly flat, clear, and glossy, using the Rotary first, and sometimes the Flex 3401VRG second, if needed...

And as I said above, I Measure the spot before, and during every set of passes to see if I am even removing half a micron, etc....

When you do this for a living, and not just for videos, it makes sense to do it as fast as possible, along with being as careful, to get the required level of perfection for that vehicle, and then on to the next one waiting in the garage...

My process is to always apply varying amounts of pressure, never just the machine weight, because for me, it works faster, and I can finish the work sooner...

Dan F

I`d like to never again see a reference to "burning throug" paint, if only because with b/c the damage is done *LONG* before that point.

OK, sorry, back to the topic at hand :o