Question on beading, ok when it rains, but almost non existent when rinse after wash

Been a visitor for quite some time and appreciate all the great info gathered. I have a question. 2014 GMC Terrain.

I`m using TW Seal & Shine and applying regularly, about every other wash. I wash it once a week. When it rains, there are plenty of beads. However, when i wash, traditional 2 bucket style, the beads are flat and in places non existent. But when it rains again, the beading is back. I`m using Meguiars Ultimate Wash & Wax (yellow). Making sure I am rinsing completely. The water in some spots is so flat that it is difficult to dry with my leaf blower.

Am I doing something wrong, or what? Why doesn`t it bead after I rinse? Thanks.


Ernie

Trying switching soaps and/or implementing a product like Technicians Choice Aqua Glow into your rinsing regiment. Beading will be insane.

ers- Welcome to Autopia!

I bet that if you were to play around with enough hose nozzles you`d find one that gives you the same beading as the rain.

But FWIW, IMO you need a better regimen...not that I`m sure what needs improving. I`d *guess* that either the TW S&S doesn`t bead the way *you* would like, or that the shampoo is the problem.

Since it doesn`t bead/blow/do the hydrophobic thing when you blow the car off, I do think that there`s room for improvement, but I also wonder whether this situation really *bothers* you or, maybe...is just something that you`re curious about. No point in solving a problem that`s not really a problem to you :D

I agree try a different soap. Also second on the different spray pattern. Spraying water is going to lay like rain.

Lastly maybe try a different sealant. I got better beads and sheeting (rolling off) off beads getting better self cleaning from griots ceramic 3-1.


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I have no issue with the TW S&S-
Probably the soap-- give that a try

ers -
Welcome to the Forum !

What do you have underneath your T/W spray Seal and Shine ?? Sealant? Wax? Coating? Anything?

In my experiences with all these things AND coatings, I found that after awhile, all these products do not act the same, and need to be removed so you can start over..

Then, later, they invented Car Pro Reset Shampoo, and after using it a few times, my coating came back to acting normal again..
I have got to where this product is all I use to wash my personal vehicles, and I never have a problem with my coating product underneath again..
Here is a link for it -- https://www.autopia-carcare.com/carp...l#.X_UFnlWQH3g
It is also available in a bigger 1 liter bottle for $10 more..
Dan F

Underneath is Collinite 845. I will try a different soap. So beside the Carpro that was suggested, any other recommendations? The main concern I have is with the beading flat it makes it difficult to dry. As you can see the vehicle has great gloss and it does bead when it rains. I appreciate all the comments and look forward to soap recommendations.

ERS

Dirty cars don`t bead much when I wash them. After the wash, they bead great. JMHO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ers

Underneath is Collinite 845. I will try a different soap. So beside the Carpro that was suggested, any other recommendations? The main concern I have is with the beading flat it makes it difficult to dry. As you can see the vehicle has great gloss and it does bead when it rains. I appreciate all the comments and look forward to soap recommendations.

ERS

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Optimum car wash or Megs Hyperwash.


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Definitely could be that weak (or old/expired?) beading from Ultimate Wash and Wax or the combo of that on top of TW SNS are causing poor water behavior in conjunction with hose spray nozzle choice. Some nozzle modes do a good job of laying the water on a car versus letting it bounce on the way rain would. ‘Shower’ mode for instance lays the water on pretty softly from my own nozzle.

All the member suggestions above are valid reasons.
Not yet mentioned, but Temperature could be another reason. I always get worse beading when the temperature is low, like 50fegF or below will cause worse beading from my hose almost as if the water wants to stick because the atoms aren’t moving with their fastest energy (I’m not a chemist but it makes sense in my pea-brain).

Water hardness can play another factor. Have you gotten good beading before with other LSPs using the same water and nozzle type?

And of course if there wasn’t the greatest prep (clay/polish/etc.) then the surface may not be as smooth and as good of a beader as it could be in which any of the aforementioned issues in the thread are only going to exasperate the the issue.



The answer is likely a combo of a bunch of these potential reasons listed in this thread, some of the reasons may be having more impact on your beading debacle.

Once you play around with nozzle spray settings, use a good glossless wash soap, check out results in different temperatures, or try other LSPs; you may get an idea what is causing this and why. The forum members might have some new ideas for you once some of the existing questions are answered.

ers- Note that some other products don`t play nice with Collinite. E.g., a previous version of Optimum No Rinse (rinseless wash) made Collinite waxes act exactly the way you`ve described (and/but also affected the appearance a little bit too). I`m absolutely *NOT* criticizing mixing different product lines (I do it *all the time*, like...almost always), but sometimes it can bite you.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I think I am going to try either Hyper wash or the optimum.

ERS

Didn’t see anyone mention it but how is the water behavior BEFORE washing with the megs soap ie; pre-rinsing? If there’s a difference that pretty much tells you the culprit is the soap. I personally never liked soaps with protection or gloss enhancers in them because they never seem to play well with existing protection.


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I see your lack of beading from the suggestions here as a three-fold problem:
1) Water quality as it might be "hard" or mineral-laden, where rain water is not
2) The Meg`s Ultimate Wash-and-Wax does not "play well" with the Turtle-Wax Seal-n-Shine
3) The spray pattern used to rinse may not lend itself to beading. That one is debatable, as there used to be a commonly-held practice that sheeting water was a "better" way to rinse wash soap off, as it stripped off or flushed away the soap and dirt and left less water behind to dry.

The fact that you are using a leaf blower as the drying aid before wiping, does indeed work if the water does not adhere or stick to the surface. One of the reasons I use Collinite 915 paste wax is the intense beading I get that makes water blow-off SOOOO easy with a leaf-blower. That is not to say that Collinite 845 Insulator wax doesn`t do that , BUT the paste wax, in my experience, is MUCH better in terms of beading. You might find that Collinite 476S Double Detergent-proof Paste Wax is good choice over 845 as well.
If you have harder water, I would suggest using Meg`s Detalier Line D110 Hyperwash mentioned above. It works well with my municipal limestone-filtered-and contaminated Lake Michigan sourced water supply. (The city of Green Bay says it is not "hard", but they have never washed a car out in the summer sun with it and then tried to remove the dried mineral residue left behind on windows. Not pretty!)

If you really want something that is going to maintain peak hydrophobic behavior during washes, then an actual paint coating is what you will want to look at. Seal N Shine is definitely one of those spray sealants in my experience that will slow down during washes, especially if it`s been a while since the last wash and if the car is driven a lot. Something like CarPro CQUK is going to be much better with the air blower than anything that Seal N Shine can deliver.

I agree with the others, Meguiar`s Ultimate soap is one that can possibly mask the water behavior worse during a wash with less hydrophobic products, similar to what guys have seen out of Meguiar`s Gold Class soap with its conditioners. It can be a temporary stunt in hydrophobic performance until you give the paint a good dry wipedown after washing and rinsing it off and waiting a little bit. Rain water is never dumping enough volume of water to make the water go flat with most basic protectants that have some mild hydrophobic tendencies left, this is why you`ll see a lot of beading after a rain shower but are seeing flatter water behavior during an actual wash with the hose.

I wouldn`t pay too much attention to the water behavior during the wash and rinse, just maintain the Seal N Shine with something like Ice Spray Wax after your regular washes and top up with another coat of Seal N Shine further down the road. The Ice Spray Wax (which I think is still a fantastic maintenance topper) should be able to keep the water behavior boosted well enough through the next wash. But again, if you want that super easy air blowing you will definitely want to upgrade to the much more hydrophobic and durable paint coatings like CQuartz. Their hydrophobic limit is much higher than Seal N Shine`s, that`s what causes water to just dance off the paint for years when maintained.