The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

What is everyone’s opinion on how the term “ceramic” is being whored out by sectors of the car care industry such as car washes as well as the consumer grade detailing product companies? Seems like every time you look another company is labeling their detail spray, wash soap, wax or sealant as “ceramic”. I really think at the end of the day it’s further diluting the strength & quality of real ceramic coatings offered by the ones who pioneered the concept.....professional detailers. Do you realize that tunnel car washes are beginning to offer a “ceramic” sealant for a measly $5 add-on and buying it by drum? The operators of these places actually think they’re applying a real ceramic coating to a car while it goes down the conveyor. This will only lead to the notion of no one ever needing an expensive detailer applied ceramic when they can get the similar thing through their local tunnel wash for an extra $5 or even coat their own car 50 times with their big box brand $15 spray “ceramic”. It’s troublesome to continually watch the professional coating market take a hit like this.

Dave Fermani:
I understand your angst for a "misappropriation/misuse" of the term ceramic. Wax has gotten into the same verbal misuse.
Microfiber is in the same boat. Until you dig deep into the actual fiber make-up and its construction, to the average person, a microfiber is a microfiber.

Will there be any legislation to clean this up?? NO. Ask the American dairy farmer about "mismarketing" of the term milk. Just because it is white and comes from almonds does not make it milk.

I agree that professional detailers are indeed, taking a hit on what do-it-yourselfer`s are using a "ceramic" product and then thinking it is a full-fledged ceramic coated vehicle. Buzz words mean a lot to marketing. Caveat Emptor-Buyer beware.

Edit: To understand why I consider Dave Fermani an Autopian All-Star, you HAVE to see this photo expose on detailing businesses that were abandoned in Detroit, Michigan after the 2008 Great Recession. Still boggles my mind that this is actually in America!! (Yes, I did see some of these areas first-hand several years later) Unfortunately, the Photobucket copyright debacle has made these photos "difficult" to view.
https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-d...tml?highlight=

Dave - And now Graphene! It does seem to get the average consumer into thinking they don`t need to pay for the good stuff when they can go grab some "wash" and do it themselves. (WHAT?! Now tunnel washes, too?! wow)

I do get asked often about some of offerings from like Chemical Guys and Adams (credit their marketing for getting their brand out there), and I do my best to educate the guys asking.

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Originally Posted by Lonnie

Edit: To understand why I consider Dave Fermani an Autopian All-Star,

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I agree with Dave being an All-Star. I recall the massive thread he had on coatings when they were still new. He did some serious long term testing that involved a tunnel wash. it was a great thread.

Another is the misuse of the term "leather".

"Hand Car Wash" has turned into meaning at the end of the tunnel they wipe the glass off by hand.

Unfortunately this will never stop. Companies pay alot for marketing and unfortunately with no regulations they literally could put 2 sand particles in a bottle and call it Sio2 infused. The marketing companies are going to do this till consumers figure this out and demand more. Most just don’t care.

I don’t disagre with it though as marketing is just trying to sell their products they are playing by the rules

“Don’t hate the player, hate the game”


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While I whole-heartedly agree, is it any different from the term "wax"? My local touchless car wash doesn`t advertise anything ceramic yet, but it does offer a "wax" cycle if you buy the right package. We all know it is some cheap sealant and there is no way it`s a solution with carnauba wax in it.

I would take Dave`s argument one step further (in his favor). I think the abuse of the term "coating" goes hand-in-hand with the abuse of the term "ceramic". When everyone started slapping the term on a host of spray products rather than keeping it for the actual long-term ceramic coatings in the little glass bottles, it was all down hill.

In an unregulated industry, there isn`t much you can do about it. The marketing department will run amok.

I’ve had these discussions with a few people. Usually I just show them a bottle of a coating (typically a leftover 30ml CSL or EXO bottle), tell them what that tiny bottle costs, then just ask them if they really think that $20 16oz “ceramic” spray is the same thing. Most people are pretty good at figuring that out.

Ceramic is the newest buzzword. Fomblin was the real deal.

You guys are way too kind! I really appreciate your compliments. I’ve spent a lot of time over the years on this forum and have seen many interesting changes. It will always be my “home” and my detailing roots. Without Autopia I wouldn’t be the detailer I am today. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Lonnie

Edit: To understand why I consider Dave Fermani an Autopian All-Star, you HAVE to see this photo expose on detailing businesses that were abandoned in Detroit, Michigan after the 2008 Great Recession. Still boggles my mind that this is actually in America!! (Yes, I did see some of these areas first-hand several years later) Unfortunately, the Photobucket copyright debacle has made these photos "difficult" to view.
https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-d...tml?highlight=

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I’m planning on updating my Photobucket subscription and posting here more. This should clear up those existing pics. I’ve got probably 30 more abandoned car washes that I’ve found since making that thread that I’d like to post sooner than later. Stay tuned.

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Originally Posted by JustJesus

I agree with Dave being an All-Star. I recall the massive thread he had on coatings when they were still new. He did some serious long term testing that involved a tunnel wash. it was a great thread.

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Yes! My Opti-coat durability thread. It was a benchmark for the coating industry back then.

I totally get that we can’t ever change the over exaggeration coming out of the places I listed (car washes & big box detail supply companies). But I know for certain that they fear outspoken people condemning their practices. So, making threads such as this and getting the word out to as many people about these critical product differences are key.

Welcome back David! been a long time my friend and yes to your question, it`s seems everyone is getting into the detailing industries with the term ` Ceramic Coatings " and also the term " Graphene " which starting to pop up in alot of detailing vans around me.....I remember the days when Wax and Sealants were the term and we all knew what they meant. They come by where I work and say and show their business cards and say they invented the products and term them and I just laugh and say no thanks to these hacks by me....I had to give up detailing because of my heart which is 40% dead tissue and it`s hard to lift a rotary or PC but still try to maintain my vehicles shine and protection.

This is a classic example how big box brands are exploiting the professional detailing industry AND belittling its value. How can you take a company like this seriously when they market their spray detailer as a professional grade coating. Total trickery marketed to the unknowing consumer. I’ve been using this product on and off for nearly a year and I can say without hesitation that it’s the furthest thing from a real ceramic coating. Basically a mediocre spray sealant that lasts a few months. Has little to no characteristics of a professional grade coating whatsoever, yet a consumer is really led to think that what’s in the bottle is what a professional detailer is applying for 100’s of dollars. Again, this is hurting the credibility of our profession.
https://i.imgur.com/TuzsMZC.jpg

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Originally Posted by David Fermani

I totally get that we can’t ever change the over exaggeration coming out of the places I listed (car washes & big box detail supply companies). But I know for certain that they fear outspoken people condemning their practices. So, making threads such as this and getting the word out to as many people about these critical product differences are key.

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May as well include coating mfg`s who tout such things as Diamond-Infusion and Scratch Resistance if looking for such `exaggerated` marketing.

While the above 2 examples can be distilled in a manner that makes them technically correct, the reality is somewhat less than described.

Is the Car Wash really that much different than the `pro` who hoses down a car with something like Gyeon Wetcoat and tags it an "Entry Level Ceramic Coating Service"?

It`s just marketing no matter the level where it occurs.

I have argued this "misrepresentation" of other terms as well in marketing: one being "Lifetime guarantee" and "Money-back guarantee if not completely satisfied". Neither one is true, especially the former. As I have stated before, in the state of Wisconsin, the state supreme court has ruled that "lifetime" means 7 years. In reality, it has NOTHING to do with the product`s life expectancy nor the buyer`s living life in time; it only applies to the life-time of the company`s existence. This was brought to my attention when my wife and I looked at replacement windows for our house and window companies who sell their windows with "a lifetime guarantee". A law suite involving windows with such a guarantee went all the way to the state supreme court and the above ruling time-frame is the legal precedent (ruling standard) for cases involving "lifetime guarantees".
Another case at my local level involved a long-time new car dealership that offered "free life-time oil changes" with new cars purchased there. When the dealership went under shortly after the 2008 Great Recession, those vehicle owners who had purchased new vehicle at said dealership under this pretense asked who would pay for continuing their oil changes. The lawyer for the troubled dealership said "You will", since the dealership and its ownership no longer existed. As stated, Caveat Emptor- Buyer Beware

The whored out comment had me laughing.. The kool-aid is strong but delicious

@budgetplan I clicked dislike to one of your posts by accident and can’t remove it.

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Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1

May as well include coating mfg`s who tout such things as Diamond-Infusion and Scratch Resistance if looking for such `exaggerated` marketing.

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Not long after I coated my neighbor`s SUV, I got a text from him regarding a question he received from someone while showing off the work done to his car: "Will CQuartz keep a dog`s nails from scratching the paint?"

You know that`s a direct result of some marketing that claims the 9h hardness of a coating will provide protection from automated car washes all the way to 7.62mm rounds fired at medium range.

Fortunately, my neighbor is a smart guy and understood how a coating only a few microns thick won`t protect from much of anything. I`m not confident a PPF would even protect from dog nails.

Back on topic...

The overuse of the term "ceramic" and "coatings" does make things confusing. In just the last few months I`ve had several people ask me either what a coating is, or how hard it would be to "cover" their vehicle in "ceramic". Some people are patient enough for an explanation, others just give you a funny look and say, "Can`t you just spray it on like that TopCoat F11 stuff I saw on Facebook?"

Ceramic I don’t mind so much as the product has some amount in it. Coating.... well I guess technically if it goes over top it’s a coating.

The low end Ceramic sealants selling themselves as coating will most likely only apply to those who don’t want to pay for corrections and coating themselves.

I think the biggest thing that is hurting the pro detailer market is prosumer products. At home coatings. These prosumers are the ones’ like me who would pay for these services.

To be honest I’ll blame the local detailers and the big pro coatings to blame.

The local detailers couldn’t give a good explanation on why a pro coating was better only talking about the warranty and the prep/polish before hand.

I get the prep/polish aspect of it but if i’m going pay multiple hundreds to a thousand more for a coating i wanna know why. Even the warranty is marketing as i need to come back and maintain to keep warranty.

This no real good explanation and no info i could find on the web about how they are better got ne to venture into doing my own.

Could the pro have done it better....absolutely, but i got a finish product I was more than happy with and the satisfaction of doing it myself.

Marketing is gonna be what it’s gonna be. It’s up to the companies that do it better to get out the info why...

This not on you who do this for a living. It would make sense to have an answer for those who do ask. This is on the CQuartz Finest’s, Ceramic Pro’s and Gyeon pro type companies.... if their gonna charge you to use their products their should be some marketing involved.




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When I think of the word “ceramic” I equate it to hard or something that hardens. That’s basically what a ceramic coating does/is....it gets applied to the surface as a liquid and turns into a solid. Nothing solid about these products, yet they’re misleading people into thinking their product does it. I must of missed the day my professor went over the topic of tricking people as being a key element to marketing? Lol.

Here’s a good chemist/mixer covering the ceramic over use https://youtu.be/bGAHI0xruwU

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Originally Posted by David Fermani

When I think of the word “ceramic” I equate it to hard or something that hardens. That’s basically what a ceramic coating does/is....it gets applied to the surface as a liquid and turns into a solid. Nothing solid about these products, yet they’re misleading people into thinking their product does it. I must of missed the day my professor went over the topic of tricking people as being a key element to marketing? Lol.

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Completely agree, however to me, marketing is literally about tricking people into thinking they want/need something. The best products don`t need clever marketing when they simply work well.

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Originally Posted by David Fermani

When I think of the word “ceramic” I equate it to hard or something that hardens. That’s basically what a ceramic coating does/is....it gets applied to the surface as a liquid and turns into a solid. Nothing solid about these products, yet they’re misleading people into thinking their product does it. I must of missed the day my professor went over the topic of tricking people as being a key element to marketing? Lol.

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But that’s what you think. If your an average joe who’s waxed a car once or twice in your life and saw this New TW Hybrid Solutions (Hybrid great marketing) on the shelf of Autozone on a sunny day and used it over your 3 year old Meguiars wax this is the next great thing since sliced bread. Hype is what sells. Getting a ceramic product at a fraction of the cost works because most don’t know the difference. Is TW supposed to teach them that? No their trying to sell their products.

Unfortunately not everyone puts the thought you put in it. If it’s “new and improved” “pro grade” “fat free”

Look at most retail. Everything we buy is always on sale. Sales were created to get rid of old stock or products did not sell well.

The average buyer is conditioned to see sale and buy...

This was interesting when JC pennies got a new CEO he went away from coupons, 24 hour sales and rebates he had priced everything low. Taking away all the gimmicks and just giving everyone a great price.

Went horrible people were conditioned to buy it on sale. Same with this. How many people bought the New Formula Seal nShine when it came out even though they had the old one they were happy with on the shelf? Not knocking it i’ve read it was better but what actual change did they make?

Didn’t matter a product they liked is new and improved.

Just the Marketing world today.

If anything it might help your industry. Using me as a case study......I got my Mustang and it just didn’t look right. I talk to some car guys and they talked about ceramic coatings. Didn’t really explain what it was.

I went to to Amazon, found Hydrosilex. To me next best thing since sliced bread. But here is where I got the taste and started doing more research.

Seeing at best this being 5-10 percent sio2 and seeing a true coating was up to 75%

I was then willing to spend 600-800 to have my car ceramic coated and more if it was presented right.

It brought your industry a customer. Problem is most consumers on an Autopian level know same or more than a good number of the “pro’s” out their. The couldn’t educate my why a pro coating was better than a prosumer.

It then got me to spend my industry dollars on top dollar consumer products..... because of Hydrosilex (which i still like in the ceramic sealant range)

I’ve spent more in last three years than 20 times the amount in my previous 41 on this earth.

This Hyped Ceramic coating got me deeper into this rabbit hole. If not for inferior detailers i probably be a ceramic coating customer instead of an Autogeek one.

To be fair I don’t think that Washington is a great state for detailers. Not enough business for alot of great detailers.

Here’s a link into Penny’s fiasco....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pri...%3fhs_amp=true




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Dave it’s fine.... so far I haven’t been sued yet selling Dark Matter Coatings

Marketing Strategy: Gravitational Shield of dark matter is better scratch resistance

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Originally Posted by Desertnate

You know that`s a direct result of some marketing that claims the 9h hardness of a coating will provide protection from automated car washes all the way to 7.62mm rounds fired at medium range.

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You need some Armor All for that.

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Originally Posted by RZJZA80

Completely agree, however to me, marketing is literally about tricking people into thinking they want/need something. The best products don`t need clever marketing when they simply work well.

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You reminded me of the “wax” they would apply to a hood and light it on fire. What was the name?

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Originally Posted by John U

You reminded me of the “wax” they would apply to a hood and light it on fire. What was the name?

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AURI was one of them. There were so many.
The little Brit would yell “Look Mike, it’s bulletproof!!!”


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Originally Posted by Coatings=crack

Ceramic I don’t mind so much as the product has some amount in it. Coating.... well I guess technically if it goes over top it’s a coating.

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Pretty much where I’m at. If it has SiO2 that occurs in any form during use, this is how I’ve conditioned my mind to accept “ceramic” being in the name. Even if it’s 0.5%, this isn’t much different of a concept than any other industry (“gold” jewelers is a good comparison, even when it’s only lightly gold plated... it’s still gold in some form).

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Originally Posted by William_Wallace

Here’s a good chemist/mixer covering the ceramic over use https://youtu.be/bGAHI0xruwU

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Thanks for the link! This basically echos everything I’m complaining about.


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This topic is too funny. I was at Home Depot this week and almost knocked down this display in the “car care isle”(when the heck did they get one of those?). Again, another company trying their hand at deceiving people people with their marketing. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6edc467757.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d667c97cc0.jpg

That before and after. Great results. No buffing!

I had noticed the car stuff at Home Depot about a year ago. I did a double take, and back tracked to stop and look. I was surprised

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Originally Posted by David Fermani

What is everyone’s opinion on how the term “ceramic” is being whored out by sectors of the car care industry such as car washes as well as the consumer grade detailing product companies? Seems like every time you look another company is labeling their detail spray, wash soap, wax or sealant as “ceramic”. I really think at the end of the day it’s further diluting the strength & quality of real ceramic coatings offered by the ones who pioneered the concept.....professional detailers. Do you realize that tunnel car washes are beginning to offer a “ceramic” sealant for a measly $5 add-on and buying it by drum? The operators of these places actually think they’re applying a real ceramic coating to a car while it goes down the conveyor. This will only lead to the notion of no one ever needing an expensive detailer applied ceramic when they can get the similar thing through their local tunnel wash for an extra $5 or even coat their own car 50 times with their big box brand $15 spray “ceramic”. It’s troublesome to continually watch the professional coating market take a hit like this.

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Great observation.

You can only imagine how Mobil1 felt a few years back when the courts ruled that it was okay for other companies to call products "synthetic" that weren`t engineered to the same standards. Now, it seems like nearly every quart on the wall is either a "synthetic" or a "synthetic blend" engine oil.

It’s everywhere! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3cecbbcecc.jpg

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Originally Posted by David Fermani

It’s everywhere! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3cecbbcecc.jpg

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Not to mention Hybrid is proabably the most marketable marketing words right now


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Like DJ Khalid always says…..and another one [emoji23]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...52c4dcb9e8.jpg


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It drives me nuts. Lol

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I highly doubt that anything that`s water based is a true ceramic.

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Originally Posted by wannafbody

I highly doubt that anything that`s water based is a true ceramic.

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I’ll go on further and say that anything that is sprayed out of a bottle isn’t one either.

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Originally Posted by David Fermani

I’ll go on further and say that anything that is sprayed out of a bottle isn’t one either.

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Except Gyeon CanCoat 100% agree


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Originally Posted by Coatings=crack

Except Gyeon CanCoat 100% agree


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That`s for sure. CanCoat will harden into a solid very quickly. If you don`t flush the spray heads when you`re done, they are toast. Same goes for buffing/application towels. They will harden quickly if not dunked in water in my experience. I`ve lost a few towels which turned into sandpaper.