Marring on Mercedes!

A few years ago I bought a DASPRO6 and a beginners Menzerna/Sonus detailing kit. I am far from expert, but I have had reasonable success on the cars I have owned, up until now!

I have bought a 2002 Mercedes with black metallic paint. I used a 3M green pad with FG400 and it did a really good job of removing swirls. I then used Bilt Hamber wax and it all looked really good. However, I did the work in my garage, when I took it out into the bright sunlight I saw that I had a lot of marring/hazing. I have never had this before??? I tried softer pads and milder cut but I cannot fully get rid of the marring??

So could someone please suggest the best pad/cutting options and I will order and start afresh as I am paranoid I have dirty pads/old polish/old microfibre etc. I think I just got too complacent.

Hi GordD, Welcome to the forum.

I do not have experience working on 2002 Mercedes metallic black paint paint but it sounds like the paint is on the softer side. It is possible that nothing is wrong with the Menzerna you currently have and they make fantastic compounds/ polishes. The FG400/Green pad combo was probably aggressive and left marring/ haze on the finish. What soft pad/ mild cut combo did you follow up with?
it could be that you would need to use an even finer polish like Menz 3800 and a finishing pad like a black/ red pad to try to get rid of the marring/ haze if the paint is soft.

Also, what type of MF towels are you using top wipe off? On very soft paint even certain towels can cause fine marring.

In terms of best pad/ cutting options available today, boy, there are so many options available. I personally like the Griots Garage BOSS polishing system as it is very user friendly. The compound/ polishes and pads are easily identifiable with how they work together and you can even use them in different combinations depending on your paint type.

Boss Pads: https://www.autopia-carcare.com/grio...hing-pads.html

Fast Correcting Cream (Compound): https://www.autopia-carcare.com/grio...l#.W7zJLqdKiM8

Correcting cream (medium polish/ one step depending on paint/ pad use): https://www.autopia-carcare.com/grio...l#.W7zJladKiM8

Perfecting Cream (Fine Polish): https://www.autopia-carcare.com/grio...l#.W7zJX6dKiM8

You may also want to look into a user friendly ceramic coating as a protection option. Something like Cquartz UK3.0 or Gyeon Mohs. May help with after care and to make washing/ maintenance much easier and introduce less marring. Especially after spending all the time and energy getting the paint perfect.

https://www.autopia-carcare.com/cqua...l#.W7zKAqdKiM8

Best of luck!

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Originally Posted by GordD

A few years ago I bought a DASPRO6 and a beginners Menzerna/Sonus detailing kit. I am far from expert, but I have had reasonable success on the cars I have owned, up until now!

I have bought a 2002 Mercedes with black metallic paint. I used a 3M green pad with FG400 and it did a really good job of removing swirls. I then used Bilt Hamber wax and it all looked really good. However, I did the work in my garage, when I took it out into the bright sunlight I saw that I had a lot of marring/hazing. I have never had this before??? I tried softer pads and milder cut but I cannot fully get rid of the marring??

So could someone please suggest the best pad/cutting options and I will order and start afresh as I am paranoid I have dirty pads/old polish/old microfibre etc. I think I just got too complacent.

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Welcome to the Forum, GordD !
Please tell us more of your process..
How big is the pad/s, how do you do the work ?

You mention only 1 pad - did you do all this work with only 1 pad ?
How are you cleaning the pad/s??

Foam pads do best for me when I use this product to clean them -- https://www.autopia-carcare.com/snap...l#.W7zagHupH3g
I soak them in it, then clean them in it by squeezing them and allowing them to absorb the snappy clean/water mixture..
Then, I knead them and rub the foam side together to further help release the compounds, etc., from the foam..
Then, when they are clean, I rinse them really well, squeeze them really well, and allow them to dry, which can take sometimes over 24 hours or more..

You need lots of pads to correct for sure, and polish paintwork.. I usually use around 6, 5-inch or so to perfectly correct Black Mercedes Paintwork..

Your Mercedes paint if its original may have already been the newer Ceramiclear paint they started using and if this is the case, it is really hard and needs a good compound to get it back into shape.. FG400 is considered a heavy compound and can correct very well if the process is correct..
Menzerna made their compounds specifically for this Mercedes Ceramiclear paint, and I have used them on all German Paintwork for years with great success..

I totally agree with Raydiant Detail that you may need another polishing compound to finish your work, but I also know that if you have the harder paint and do not have a good process for removing whatever level of defects it has, they can still be in there..

Do you have good overhead and side lighting inside your garage? Its almost impossible to see what you are doing without it - even more on a black vehicle...

Here is a Youtube video regarding your machine, from 2016 -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEuFXH3khDo

Lots of great options available for sure..
Dan F

GordD- Welcome to Autopia!

My advice might not be what you`re looking for, but IMO the #1 thing you need to do is get your inspection conditions sorted out so you never again have any surprises when you inspect the car under different conditions. IME metallic black is an incredibly difficult color to inspect properly..not sure why but it`s always driven me nuts, so I`d overkill the inspection conditions.

Most of my vehicles have supposedly hard paint, but today`s products make that a virtual non-issue. I too agree with RaydiantDetail regarding the Griot`s products, and FWIW unlike Stokdgs, I`ve never really liked Menzerna`s stuff. Hard to say what another person will/won`t like, let alone why.

And another FWIW, I`ve never been able to do a decent job on a significantly marred vehicle without at least two steps, just don`t switch to that until things are basically perfect in the sense of "no more obvious marring".

While an experienced Pro like Stokdgs might get by with six cutting pads, some of us (possibly erring on the side of caution), will use a lot more. And that`s even with cleaning them out *countless* times *per panel*. Blowing out MF pads with an air compressor will save a ton of time, but even then I spend more time cleaning pads and inspecting my work than I do actually polishing! As soon as a pad gets loaded with cut-off clearcoat and dried-up polish, it`s not longer doing what you want it to do, and might be doing things you *don`t* want.

But get that inspection lighting sorted out ;)

Thanks for all the support, such a useful forum!

As I said, I am a complete amateur at this and completely understand that I will never get any where near the level of finish you professionals can achieve, but until now, I have been very happy with what I have achieved

Previously I have worked in bright sunshine but living in England there aren`t many sunny weekends, so that is why this time I did it indoors!

I use KIrkland microfibres from Costco, I used 6" 3M green pads but only two of them, and when I saw the marring I tried a Sonus black pad with Menserna fg2500. I only did a small area on the boot with the black pad as I did not know if this was the correct solution plus it did not seem to make much difference?

For sure I guess I have not been cleaning/using enough pads!

I have searched on this forum and looked at so many posts that I am now completely overwhelmed with all the options that are out there plus there are so many different opinions!

Idealy I am looking for some sensible combinations of pad/compound that should remove the marring (most swirls are gone) and I will buy all new kit and pay more attention to what I am doing!

Thanks again for the support so far!

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Originally Posted by GordD

As I said, I am a complete amateur at this and completely understand that I will never get any where near the level of finish you professionals can achieve, but until now, I have been very happy with what I have achieved

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OK...regulars here probably saw the following lecture coming a mile away :o But here goes anyhow:

Don`t sell yourself short. I`m not a Pro but I can do anything I want/need to my complete satisfaction. You *CAN* accomplish it too IF you put in the work/time, which I`ll admit is a mighty big "if" for many people.

But since you are happy with what you`ve achieved so far (oh man, do I love reading that!), I`m quite optimistic that you`ll keep feeling that way while you up your game.

Just don`t fall prey to The Curse of Autopia, where everything has to be perfect every second of your life because "all those cars on the Internet are always perfect", but your car is *not* perfect IRL, so... boo-hoo no fun any more. Yeah, I`m serious. Anyhow.....

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Previously I have worked in bright sunshine but living in England there aren`t many sunny weekends, so that is why this time I did it indoors!

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IMO indoors is better, just gotta get the lighting squared away. That`s a lot easier these days than it was in the past (as with most Detailing stuff).

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I use KIrkland microfibres from Costco, I used 6" 3M green pads but only two of them, and when I saw the marring I tried a Sonus black pad with Menserna fg2500. I only did a small area on the boot with the black pad as I did not know if this was the correct solution plus it did not seem to make much difference?

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I`m hopelessly out-of-date on pads and I don`t know from CostCo MFs. I assume you CD-tested the latter. GENERALLY...you use a fairly aggressive pad until you`ve replace the original marring with "micromarring" that is almost unnoticeable to the naked eye. Then correct that with milder pads and products.

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I have searched on this forum and looked at so many posts that I am now completely overwhelmed with all the options that are out there plus there are so many different opinions!

Idealy I am looking for some sensible combinations of pad/compound that should remove the marring (most swirls are gone) and I will buy all new kit and pay more attention to what I am doing!

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That`s understandable. I`d figure out some basic parameters (do you want abrasives that break down or remain constant? That have long work-times or short? That do/don`t require stripping of Polishing Oils?) and then try to go with one integrated system. (Regulars might note that`s a bit different from my previous advice.) I really would suggest Griot`s, and I bet that`s what I`d go with if starting from scratch now.

Note on the jargon: "Marring" in the Detailing context is generally an umbrella term for "below surface defects such as scratches (severe) and swirls (less severe)". I.e., "gouges" in the paint that need to be "abraded away" by polishing down the paint around said flaws, like sanding a scratch out of a piece of wood. Gotta be careful to *NOT* overdo it because with today`s stuff it`s easy to take off a lot of clear (good, effective for fixing those flaws!) which means...less clearcoat there to protect from UV rays and other threats (bad, can precipitate paint failure). Know when to say "good enough!".... no matter how perfect those cars on the internet look ;)

Being in England you probably have decent access to Sonax perfect finish. Would give that a go on a polishing pad and see how that looks for you after doing a 2x2 or so test spot

Sure the Costco MF are not the worlds best but they aren’t terrible and on many cars work just fine


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It can be that the 3M Green heavy cutting pad is to aggressive to finish the fg400. And you need to do a second finish polishing step that take out the micro marring the pad did. Menzerna SF3500 finishing polish is a great choice if you want to stay in the family. I would use a light polishing pad since proberly your paint is rock hard. And if it`s that you may even have a little deeper swirls left from your compounding. That you will see when you do your test spot if and it`s clears up the micro marring. If you are going to go after the heavier defects I would suggest to get a foamed wool cutting pad and maybe you get enough cut from a set of passes with the fg400. It can be necessary to even go up in aggressiveness of the compound. Menzerna has a heavy cut compound SHC300 that takes you from an 8 in cut from fg400 to a 10 with SHC300. You will need to do a finishing polish to clean up after that.

How many passes per sections did you do with the fg400?
It`s easy to do to many passes and gets the compounding pad to micro marring even more. Try to determind if you have micro marring with a finishing polish. If you see more of a swirl pattern you have the deeper scratches left. And I would guess that it is the deeper defects that comes visible when you take it out in the sun. That`s only a guess though. It`s hard to say without any pictures with the defects lighted up.

Don`t sell you short. You can do it LOL

/Tony

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Originally Posted by SWETM

...How many passes per sections did you do with the fg400?
It`s easy to do to many passes and gets the compounding pad to micro marring even more. Try to determind if you have micro marring with a finishing polish. If....

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Just FWIW, and I don`t like doing the "buy different stuff"-type of advice :o ....that kind of thing is part of why I don`t like Diminishing Abrasive products for most things, and also why I don`t like Menzerna in particular. Just too easy for something to go haywire.

[Yeah, I used such stuff for decades, but that doesn`t necessarily mean anything in this context ;) ]

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..Don`t sell you short. You can do it LOL

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I have zero doubt about that, but it *can* take a bit of doing...research, critical thinking, etc. will help immensely.

Oh, FWIW...I don`t do the "usual" 2` x 2` test spot. WAY too big for me; I only do such a large area when Finish Polishing and not always then. I find I do far better to work smaller areas at a time. Just personal preference, sure not saying one is right/wrong for everybody, but I do consider it worth mentioning.

I`m sorry about your issue. It`s probably just some Bad Luck you got in your waxing step. I have had several black Mercedes. I had a black 2001, and I currently have a 2003 Black Merc as well. I have polished them several times. They do not have hard clearcoats, relatively speaking. I generally use the hardest foam pad with a finishing type compound (2500-3500) cutting ability to clear up swirls and scratches. I recently cleared up most defects on the 2003 Black Merc with the Mckees Fast Polish which is not a very hard compound at all. I just wanted to save my clear coat, as this car is my sht car used for work stuff. I would recommend the Menzerna 2500 with an orange CCS pad, or a Microfiber Pad. I would also recommend using a finishing polish after this to really bring out that deep black color and shine. You can use anything with a little cut. I usually just a cleaner type polish with a white CCS pad. CarPro Essence would be great after the Menzerna. I actually plan on doing this to my Corvette that has a hard German Clearcoat to get some defects out.