Any of you guys see Larry`s most recent product? It looks like one heck of a winner in the waterless wash world. It is called AMMO FROTHe, I`m not going to link it because I know that you guys are capable of finding it on your own.
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Any of you guys see Larry`s most recent product? It looks like one heck of a winner in the waterless wash world. It is called AMMO FROTHe, I`m not going to link it because I know that you guys are capable of finding it on your own.
Doesnt seem too messy to me. And I know a lot of people who use pump sprayers for rinseless wash so this doesn`t seem much different. Especially if any overspray evaporates like Larry suggests. And as Larry suggests you ise a follow up spray wax/sealant/QD to clean up anyway and bring out the shine. Interesting product for sure.
If you used a foamer type gun would any waterless wash foam?
I just saw it a few minutes ago and I’m loving his foam sprayer. Needless to say I just made my first AMMO order. Got the sprayer and his solution for it. I have the Kwazar foamer, Kwazar high psi sprayers, Solo’s, AG Sprayers, misc garden sprayers and all are somewhat of a let down. I’m hoping this thing is legit.
Nothing like that
N-914 *Frothiest I`ve ran into, but far from what we consider foam.
ONR sure doesn`t foam if at all
Opti Clean doesn`t
3D Waterless wash does a tiny bit
The best that I have gotten out of those is bubbling.
FROTHe uses some proprietary blend or blends of humectants which is a bit different than foam, in my ten minute research a humectant is basically a moisture sponge/carrier, and the foam increases the surface area and dwell time of the product, and is a by product of the aeration process via a foaming medium.
Chemically, Larry`s product can be replicated, as chemical product can be. The thing is is that Larry has a background in Chemistry, I think it is reasonable to say that he has the ability to write the curve that the rest of us are behind; anyways I don`t think any of us could scientifically replicate his product, but it may be plausible to get close. I am really curious about FROTHe, and yeah, I`d drop $35 on it.
Being a college student, I am about to pull the trigger on FROTHe, the sprayer will have to wait a while. His sprayer looks skookum, container looks to be one that I have never seen. But that sprayer head though, that`s where all the magic happens, pretty interesting. I too have the Kwazar foamer, I`d say that it gives me a very wet foam as I can never cover a fill midsize sedan with it. For $60, it should be legit.
*Edit, I`d really like to see how the AMMO Aerator stacks up against the IK Foamer.
Yup caught the video and I will definitely be purchasing this soon! I think he has a real winner here.
The thing is, Larry doesn`t have a background in chemistry, it`s his wife that`s the chemist. Larry`s background is...what was it? Oh yeah, Wall St. Then he gave it up to run a car wash, and later became a detailing superhero.
I always have to chuckle that these detailing personalities get imbued with superhero powers...people think Mike Phillips owns Autogeek, Sal Zaino is a mad scientist inventing sealants in his NJ lab...the address of which turned out to be the UPS Store.
There are plenty of aerosol products that foam like that, glass cleaners, bathroom cleaners (scrubbing bubbles, anyone?) and I recently used an evaporator cleaner (air conditioning) that foamed just like that (or better). The chemical that makes Iron X and Sonax Full Effect work (and everything that followed) has been used industrially for decades to remove rust. Why did it only pop up in wheel cleaners recently? Because no one had figured out a way to market it so that detailers would pay the premium price for it.
Larry is a great detailer, great marketer, and great product developer, let`s give him credit for those things, and not give him credit for creating foaming cleaners that have been around forever:
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/spra...l#.WsTE4Ijwa70
It gives short shrift to the real chemists.
Well, from the information that I had solely on Larry, I formed a statement; and just because one works in Wall Street it doesn’t mean that they cannot possibly have any sort of Chemistry background, there are some rather truly brilliant people in this world. Anyways, thanks for letting me know that his wife is the Chemist. I never said that Larry was a detailing superhero, just that his product is something new, and in this specific instance of contrast with SprayAway Glass Cleaner, both are distinctly different, chemically. In SprayAway’s SDS, there is no hint of a humectant (or anything that may chemically mix to become a humectant) which is what makes Larry’s, rather his wife’s product, different than the rest of waterless wash mediums. Before forum blasting please use a more specific example that is actually comparable to Mr. Kosilla’s wifes’ product, for example Armor All Ultra Shine Wash & Wax, both of which leave some layer of protection based on Larry’s AMMO video and YouTube`s search function for Armor All Ultra Shn W&W. Which by its SDS does contain a humectant. And yes Larry’s product is something new for our industry, relative to Armor All’s W&W because Armor Uses propellant as dispersion from a can which on an intermolecular level can affect Amor All’s product, where as Larry’s wife has skipped the chemical propellants in the name of chemical purity and better value for dollar, and whatever other benefits that she was thinking of.
To fully, truly, and technically compare these two products is outside of simple forum posts. What is observable quantitatively and qualitatively are merely observations of physical and chemical changes that are happening down to a sub-atomic level. So the similarities in how like appearing chemicals behave have the plausibility to be completely different from one another in technical form and function.
I’ve only had time to watch 1/2 of Larry’s video on Frothe so far - from what could tell he’s promoting it as a WW on surfaces far too contaminated to safely use any WW on - bubbles or not. There’s no way I’m going to try and clean road salt grime or mud off my car without a prewash at a coin-op first.
Does anyone know if Frothe leaves an LSP behind? No place on the Ammonyc site does it talk about this aspect.
Maybe I’m too cheap but $35 for a single bottle is steep - I’ll stick with N-914 until I see Frothe reviews singing it’s prasis.
Could somebody provide the Cliff`s Notes version for those of us who aren`t gonna find/watch the video?
Why would one choose this over some other RW that leaves LSP-type stuff behind? If you should use some product after it, that sounds like a step backwards comared to being *finished* once I`ve spritzed on/wiped off the IUDJ.
Would a product like Blackfire’s new foam booster added to your current Waterless wash work to accomplish a similar foaming feat?
Not sure how that product works, nor if it requires lots of water to rinse to remove all traces, but was just wondering.
What a tribute to the mumbo jumbo that product formulators use to convince consumers that they are doing something "special". The chemistry used in detailing products is not created by the Larry`s or Sal`s etc., it`s created at companies like Dow, Dow Corning, BASF, etc. etc. The only guy that`s doing anything more than formulating may be Dr. G as he creates some (perhaps) unique precursors for his SiC coatings, as compared to the SiO2 coatings that everyone else makes.
Here’s the thing that gets me. A lot of speculation and condemnation of something that nobody has even used yet. I am more interested in how foamer because I’m a tool whore and have most other foamers on the market and even the best are Meh. I decided to get the frothe to go along with it because I figured what the hell. I will try the foamer with his product along with others from my collection and report my findings back here along with pictures.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve met Larry and he’s a great guy! But as far as the foamer being the best on the planet? The head is the same as the Griot’s as far as I can tell from the video. I’ve done the same with Griot’s rinse less wash and it works just as Larry’s does.
Wait, with no humectants?!?!
Seriously, Larry may have, working with his wife or another chemist or another formulator, created a great product, but to suggest he`s created his own chemistry...as I said, is a disservice to real chemists...very few of which actually invent any chemistry.
Does the foam really do anything or is it just pretty? Like a foam lance. Not all the foam actually touches the paint. A good slick waterless wash like Wolfgang should do the same minus the pretty foam. I give Larry an Aplus for creativity and salesmanship. I’ll hold off on my purchase until I hear some Autopians reviews. I actually hope it does not leave any protection behind similar to N-914.
It’s not just the look of the foam, it’s function of the foam.
BTW, the former is made by the Italian company EPOCA.
I do a lot of mobile work and do a lot of rinseless and waterless washes. While they use much leas water than a traditional BW, they still leave a fair amount of liquid on the ground. Now this has to be cleaned up, especially when doing in customer’s garages and I find foam helps keep more product on the vehicle and less drippage onto the ground.
In his video, Larry said, "Let me be crystal clear: AMMO FROTHe is a lubricant that helps lift dirt in the worst-case scenario, or in our detailing language, that means dry or non-lubricated paint. In other words, without the assistance of a hose or water; hence the name, “Hoseless Lift.”
And in the "description" summary below his video, it is written:
After years of frustration, we finally found the best way to wash our cars SAFELY without the use of "free flowing water". In other words, a hose, pressure washer, foam canon, etc... AMMO Frothe is for those times when using a lubricant, such as water, is not available. If you have a hose, GREAT! Use it. Frothe can be used wet or dry. This product contains humectants that help retain moisture or "lube" to protect the paint during dry or "hoseless" wiping. Regulate the amount of Frothe and towels based on the level of dirt on the paint.
Another data point at least - interesting test using Frothe to wipe off hardened compound residue on polished black paint at around the halfway mark (ie, paint had been corrected, he slung compound on it, let it dry, then used Frothe to clean it up).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcZdPJNdL60
JustJesus- Thanks for the summary, hope somebody finds his approach useful.
This has been a good read. I’m a fan of Larry but I’m skeptical of a foaming WW or RW. The advantage of foam is dispersal of product, and retention (slower runoff). That all seems good for WW. What bothers me is that foam is more air than product. Although foamy pre-rinses with foam guns/cannons make for sexy video and compelling how-to YouTube fodder, I’ve never been sold. I’d MUCH prefer a pre-rinse with plain old sprayed-on ONR, UWW+, Uber, or ECH20 than any amount of foam. My bias of pre-rinsing carries over to WW. Combine my bias with the fact that foam will prevent me from seeing the product working UNTIL wiping..... eeek! Not for me, especially at the price.
I have the same question, how does Larry`s foaming sprayer compare to the IK foaming sprayer? Larry`s is almost twice the price, is it twice as good?
I found the manufacturer of Larry’s spayer and it can’t be bought like most other sprayers. I also purchased the GG pump foamer as well because the actual head looks very similar to the AMMO unit. When I have both in my possession I will take detailed pics of both to see how similar they are and do side by side foam comparisons with a few products that most of us have.
Not to (help) take this off-topic, but what`s the big deal with bird-bombs? Use the right LSP and they come right off with no issues at all, even after sitting in the hot sun for ages (think Long Term Parking).
Eh, hold on...OK...yeah, one of those Seagull Victims or somesuch where the vehicle is virtually coated with guano..might be good for that, especially when water usage is an issue.
But IMO when it`s just a panel or two that`s been bombed, that simply shouldn`t be an issue these days, though avoiding marring on softer paint *will* take a bit of time/effort and I know many people don`t want to spend more than a few minutes on it.
Heh heh, you guys` discussion even has *me* intrigued...I`ll be looking forward to how the comparison turns out. My only experience with "foaming sprayers" was with the trigger-spray ones from GG, and that was a Total Fail (though I might try it again with 3D 50:1 Glass Cleaner some time).
There’s a car that sits in my drive that gets pooped on daily, when it is parked at work and I can`t do anything about it besides convince its drive to park much farther away from work, or me get a permit and build some type of shelter, which I am not doing because the location is not my property. When the car gets home, bringing out the whole bucket and water or even a rinsless set up is deemed as a waste of time that I don’t always have. Most of the time I find myself wanting to clean the bird dirt off gently without having to clean an entire panel because the poops are on at least three panels, I’d like to see how FROTHe works for spots.
Accumulator- LSP on the regularly pooped on vehicle is FK1000P, and the car will sometimes go three weeks without a complete wash. Chasing bird dirt on a dirty surface is something that can be a bit tough for Bird Sh!t Remover and the dedicated rinseless towels. FROTHe looks like a viable solution that I have just pulled the trigger on, as well as the foaming sprayer.
FROTHe and Foaming sprayer purchased, currently have the Kwazar 2L as my mobile. I will set up a comparison after the AMMO products arrive and more importantly when I have the time.
The Griot’s is an Italian made spray head, is that where Larry’s is made?