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RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
I really like the way German cars feel and drive, but every time I own one I swear I`m not buying another. I`ve owned several VWs, several Audis, a couple of BMWs and one MB.They are seriously such un-reliable garbage. Instead of upgrading/evolving designs, they start from scratch and make things worse in many cases. VW/Audi is the worst at this. I currently have a 2010 Passat that I`m trying to keep "reliable" but my gut is telling me to ditch it.
Some funny things (generalizations) I`ve noticed:
-There are almost no "independent" Honda/Nissan/Toyota shops because they aren`t needed!
-Asian car dealers try to up-sell you on silly services like throttle body cleanings and fluid changes or tell you you need new brakes when your pads are 1/2 worn because it is hard for their service dept to stay busy/profitable
-German car forums are filled with people searching for answers, mega threads with all sorts of fixes, Asian forums are filled with questions about who makes the biggest spoiler or what wheels will fit.
-There aren`t really any major 3rd party sources for Asian cars, for Euro cars there is a whole camp of 3rd party stuff.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
My Toyotas have always been reliable. My 2006 Sienna just turned 100,000 miles last weekend. I’ve spent no money on repairs (outside of regular maintenance) in over 5 years of ownership. I bought the Sienna used with 60,000. My only accessory is Weathertech mats:)
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
For me, life`s too short to pick vehicles solely on total cost of ownership.
There`s more to cars than that in my opinion. For many it`s a simple transportation device.
I like to enjoy the drive because I recognize the enormous amount of time spent in my vehicles. If that means slightly higher cost of ownership, so be it.
Full disclosure: One of my cars is a 2001 Audi S4... which is notoriously "German." I still love it.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JVD
For me, life`s too short to pick vehicles solely on total cost of ownership.
There`s more to cars than that in my opinion. For many it`s a simple transportation device.
I like to enjoy the drive because I recognize the enormous amount of time spent in my vehicles. If that means slightly higher cost of ownership, so be it.
Full disclosure: One of my cars is a 2001 Audi S4... which is notoriously "German." I still love it.
You bring up some good points, I guess on a car that you don`t have to rely on, then yes, things can be overlooked a bit. The thing for me is we go on long trips frequently. I hate the idea of getting stranded somewhere.
I had a B5S4 as well:
http://datasmuggler.com/images/projects4/s4.jpg
Loved that thing until some lady playing with her phone destroyed it. They were really good cars, some minor issues here and there, biggest one being the turbos went buh-bye if you pushed them a bit too hard.
The new crop of direct injected VWs/Audis are littered with serious problems though. Germans as a whole have been having terrible issues with HPFPs. DSG issues as well. On the Pre 2000`s it was minor stuff, on the new cars it seems like each one has something that will just grenade the motor or transmission.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Huh, guess I`m, uhm....unusual...in this regard too :o
The vast majority of my Japanese vehicles were absolute POS that spent forever in the shop and were sold with unsolvable issues after being out of service for so long that we deemed them worthless/dangerous.
My German vehicles, despite being makes/models often considered Big Trouble, have been much better overall and I only had one that was seriously bad (2000 A6 4.2 that the dealer bought back for full price, taxes/etc. included, after 12K of use due to DBW response issues).
That said, my Audi guys are *VERY* glad I haven`t bought more modern ones, and I have zero intention of doing so for a multitude of reasons. If I ever went back to MB or BMW I`d be buying older-tech models too...just won`t own a vehicle that the dealers admit they can`t always fix and that`s the (off-the-record) story I keep hearing about all of those marques.
Eh, there`s *NOTHING* on today`s market I want badly enough to sell one of my current vehicles. Now if a meteorite falls out of the sky and trashes something...well, we`ll see. But I could happily keep the current vehicles for the rest of my life, and Accumulatorette plans to do that with her `00 A8.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dan
..Asian car dealers ..tell you you need new brakes when your pads are 1/2 worn ...
Gee, I`d be, uhm...displeased. What, like I don`t know the condition of my brake pads?!? What, trying to knowingly RIP ME OFF?!? There would be a...discussion...they wouldn`t soon forget, I`d probably teach somebody some new words.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
Gee, I`d be, uhm...displeased. What, like I don`t know the condition of my brake pads?!? What, trying to knowingly RIP ME OFF?!? There would be a...discussion...they wouldn`t soon forget, I`d probably teach somebody some new words.
I guess its all relative. I`ve heard co-worker stories of getting their cars towed in and the mechanics telling them they might need a new part X but the they can`t be sure, it will only be about $2000 to open up the motor and check. Then the offer comes from the mechanic to "buy" the car to cover the current diagnostic fees. This isn`t a one time thing, I`ve heard this type of story 2 or 3 times. I`d fly off the handle at that point. I recently ripped a shop left and right for trying to charge $250 for a battery they had sent me a mailer for $99 for and then tried to tell me "that" battery was out of stock and I didn`t want THAT one anyway.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
How about some love for always American cars?? I own a GMC which has been worry free...so far.
I`m actually looking at getting the new Buick Regal GS next year. 310 horsepower/282 lb-ft of torque, 9 speed auto and All Wheel Drive.
https://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/19/...rx-quick-spin/
By the way, Buick is the third most reliable car brand...behind Lexus and Toyota.
My wife had a BMW 3 series a few years ago. The engine had a skip in it - at 60,000 miles - and even the BMW dealership we bought if from couldn`t determine exactly what was wrong with it. They wanted to change all six plugs and all six coils "to see if that would do it". $3,800. Yeah, no thanks. Never again. Traded is in for a 2016 Honda Accord coupe V6.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dschribs
How about some love for always American cars?? I own a GMC which has been worry free...so far.
I`m actually looking at getting the new Buick Regal GS next year. 310 horsepower/282 lb-ft of torque, 9 speed auto and All Wheel Drive.
https://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/19/...rx-quick-spin/
By the way, Buick is the third most reliable car brand...behind Lexus and Toyota.
My wife had a BMW 3 series a few years ago. The engine had a skip in it - at 60,000 miles - and even the BMW dealership we bought if from couldn`t determine exactly what was wrong with it. They wanted to change all six plugs and all six coils "to see if that would do it". $3,800. Yeah, no thanks. Never again. Traded is in for a 2016 Honda Accord coupe V6.
I`ve had good luck with American cars go in most respects, but the annoyance there is stupid stuff breaks or wears out because GM or Ford figured out a way to save $0.04. Best example I have is the fact that its a given that a waterpump on most American cars will wear out before the car hits 100k.
Regarding your wife`s BMW, that`s a story you just hear over and over. Let me throw some parts and the car and see if it fixes it. Part is due to people not wanting to pay for diagnostics (like hours of time), the other is the fact that most dealers and automakers think that once you hit 50k miles you should give your car to a homeless person or drive it off a cliff, and of course buy a new one.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dan
-Asian car dealers try to ....... tell you you need new brakes when your pads are 1/2 worn because it is hard for their service dept to stay busy/profitable
I`m a tech at an independent BMW shop (we also do Audi and Mini, but BMW is the focus); trust me - it`s not just the asian car dealers that quote stuff you don`t need. BMW is having a host of recalls (Conspiracy theory - sure seems like a convenient way to get the older "ripe-for-the-picking" models back in for inspections...), and the stuff we`ve seen them quote has been infuriating. The joke there according to a friend that works at the dealer is that every car needs an oil pan gasket. Our customers will come in with the recommendation list and it`s pathetic. They do seem to quote an oil pan on every car (Most are a 3 out of 10 on anyone else`s leak scale). I had one where they said the customer`s brakes were at 2-3mm. Lowest pad I measured was 5mm.
People getting ripped off at shops is a hard topic for me to talk about. I get so mad at how crooked techs/shops can be. I left the Audi dealership after being there for 10 years because they were turning into a big money machine and every car had to be broken. Just not the case. The indy I`m at now is a much better fit where we can work with people to make smart plans for keeping their cars going. Then there`s the clueless catch-all shops that throw crappy parts and make the customers pay for their ignorance. See that all too often as well.
Reliability wise, I drive an Audi. My wife drives an Audi. I`ve put 75k on my current avant, just feeding it oil changes, brakes, and maintenance. Sold my last A4 avant with 225k. Sure, any of the German stuff has the potential to have a little more upkeep, but as others mentioned there`s nowhere else I`d rather spend my time (sorry other brand loyalists!).
I guess in fairness I should add a BMW is a hard car for me to recommend based on my daily experience with them... :wacko:
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
BMW = Bring Money With
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dschribs
How about some love for always American cars?? I own a GMC which has been worry free...so far.
I`m actually looking at getting the new Buick Regal GS next year. 310 horsepower/282 lb-ft of torque, 9 speed auto and All Wheel Drive.
https://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/19/...rx-quick-spin/
By the way, Buick is the third most reliable car brand...behind Lexus and Toyota.
My wife had a BMW 3 series a few years ago. The engine had a skip in it - at 60,000 miles - and even the BMW dealership we bought if from couldn`t determine exactly what was wrong with it. They wanted to change all six plugs and all six coils "to see if that would do it". $3,800. Yeah, no thanks. Never again. Traded is in for a 2016 Honda Accord coupe V6.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
I`ll align myself with Accumulator on this discussion. We` had dozens of Germans since I started driving. We`ve never had one that`s been a truly `bad car`. They`ve all been pretty good, if not great. We`ve presently got 3 Audis and they`re all so good I`m afraid to part with any of them. A shear joy to drive and experience.
We`ve had all the primary Japanese marques. I think one Mitsubishi was a problem child from new, but that was quickly broomed out. Ohhh, we had a 1982 Peugeot that was a problem car but everyone liked driving it so much it remained, for some great mystery, in the family for a long time...until the back window caved in due to rust.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Dan- Yikes, that`s pretty bad. Oh...and when I say the Audis have been relatively trouble-free, I must say that the A8 has cost us a good bit a few times, but it was always something I could justify (well, rationalize justifying ;) ) due to its mileage. But she absolutely *LOVES* it and fixing it is always cheaper than buying something new (but gee, that`s a pretty low bar to set, huh?). At least my Audi tech (only one guy who`s allowed to work on it) *can* fix it, and I know him well enough to know he`s honest.
Dan & dschribs- My beloved Old Body Style Tahoe, which is *perfect* for what I use it for and the exact SUV-look I like, isn`t really all that reliable. Spits out radiators somewhat regularly and at ~125K could use a lot of big-expense rebuilding that it/I can live without (at least for now). Not holding up nearly as well as the Audis, but then it didn`t cost as much either and I suspect it lived a tough life before I got it (the A8/S8 were bought new and the V8 belonged to a friend so I know its history).
All that said, none of `em has ever left us stranded. Haven`t had that happen since...gee..(thinking)...the late `70s. There were a few nervous limp-home moments, but nothing this century.
My worst, most unreliable vehicles ever: `87 Lincoln MKVII LSC, `90 Porsche C4, `94(?) Subaru Outback, `01 Mazda MPV. LOTS of limping home in all those, utter junk. Never got any of `em fixed either; I pity their subsequent owners. Learned a lot about those (never again!) dealers too. Lincoln Service Mngr said "Lucky for us you didn`t buy it a bit later, we might`ve had to replace it under the lemon law". Yeah..actually said that to me (the week before I dumped it for the C4, which was no better :o ).
oneheadlite- Oh man do I wish you were in my area! My best independent service guys quit wrenching and now just sell parts and tuning kits (the Demrovsky family, of ECS..that was Euro Car Service...Tuning fame). Andy and his kids walk on water IMO, Best Ever bar none.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nickclark08
BMW = Bring Money With
Barely Made Warranty :blink:
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
VW`s don`t leak oil; they mark their territory...
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Agree with Dan`s sentiments. Love the way German cars drive, hate the quirks. Will personally not buy another German brand.
Japanese cars, are a mainstay in our family. They`re not the latest and greatest tech, with antiquated engine/transmission design...but the damn things just need oil and gas. That`s it.
Perhaps on another plane of existence, where our family didn`t have a responsibilities with children and work - we could enjoy German cars. However, here on Planet Earth, we don`t have time or patience to deal with low oil, coolant, electrical, and fuel pump issues.
To each their own. Respect and admiration for those that can maintain a nice Audi, BMW or MB.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Great thread. I have had a Nissan 300zx bullet proof. Drove it until someone ran a stop sign and t-boned me= totaled. I was ok after the wreck so car did It’s job. Next I did a Toyota Supra turbo. Really awesome targa topped monster. Drove it 80k miles and gave to my brother to enjoy. I purchased an M3. First 25k were perfect. Then it started expensive brakes, rotors , electrical gremlins, radio code issues. Constant sorting out of issues. I never when through so many light bulbs in any other car. I loved the car and that’s why I put up with it. That car cost me a fortune in dealer service. Got married and shortly after traded it in on a baby mobile for my wife. We got a Volvo turbo and she did not like the wallop of Power when the turbos kicked in so I took that and she traded my beater in for a Saab. Volvo good Saab so so. Next up got the wife an Infiniti and wow. 5 years of nothing but oil changes and brakes. Kept that suv 16 years. It was my wife DD for 7 and then an extra for foul weather, both kids learned to drive
In it. It was their first car. Just sold it weeks ago for $ 2,900.00 with 106k.
Since then we are pretty much straight import. Subaru, Infiniti,acura. In a moment of weakness we did get a jeep and knock on wood. It’s been 3 uneventful years! Anyone who follows these forums knows I’m on my 5th Infiniti as my Dd.
I just added a German 5 series Bmw at my wife’s request. Fingers crossed.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Agreed - great thread. :D
JSFM35X - My friend had a 300zx TT. Super fun car. Unfortunately by the time he owned it, it was old enough to have started to get “quirky”.
I’ve heard good things about Infinity from the premium used car dealer down the road from us. Based on the bodywork/repair work I’ve seen on some of the cars they’ve bought, they may not have the highest of standards for what they peddle; but the owner raves about how they virtually never hear back from the people that buy the infinties needing repairs.
Good to hear on the Volvo- my wife’s mom just bought a ‘16 Volvo T5. Neat car, hopefully it’s good to her. She had an ‘04 Nissan Maxima for 175k, but the last 75k were quite expensive.
And I know I went on and on about it in your other thread, but please do oil changes on the 5k’s with your 5 series, it’s cheap insurance towards a better future!!!
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
I purchased the service package on the bimmer. Covers oil, breaks , rotors and everything else is on the regular warranty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oneheadlite
Agreed - great thread. :D
JSFM35X - My friend had a 300zx TT. Super fun car. Unfortunately by the time he owned it, it was old enough to have started to get “quirky”.
I’ve heard good things about Infinity from the premium used car dealer down the road from us. Based on the bodywork/repair work I’ve seen on some of the cars they’ve bought, they may not have the highest of standards for what they peddle; but the owner raves about how they virtually never hear back from the people that buy the infinties needing repairs.
Good to hear on the Volvo- my wife’s mom just bought a ‘16 Volvo T5. Neat car, hopefully it’s good to her. She had an ‘04 Nissan Maxima for 175k, but the last 75k were quite expensive.
And I know I went on and on about it in your other thread, but please do oil changes on the 5k’s with your 5 series, it’s cheap insurance towards a better future!!!
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
This thread will never end! I bought a 2016 tundra last august and a 2017 highlander this august. First toyotas I have ever owned I have never bought extended warranties for anything. This day and time parts are cheaply made and cost a fortune I went ahead and got the 10/100,000 warranty just for piece of mind.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
I think another really big factor that comes in with today’s cars regardless of brand is the huge push for better fuel efficiency. Engines today have so much more going on than days past - variable valve timing and valve lift, turbochargers, variable displacement oil pumps, cylinder shut down, direct fuel injection, etc. Add to that the fact that less weight = better fuel economy, so they’re making things as light as possible. Super lightweight oils are also becoming widespread, though I’m no engineer so I can’t speak to what effect that’ll have long term.
For whole vehicle reliability, seems like every car is coming equipped with tons of technology that used to be limited to top shelf luxury cars, so we’ll see how all that holds up as well.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oneheadlite
I think another really big factor that comes in with today’s cars regardless of brand is the huge push for better fuel efficiency. Engines today have so much more going on than days past - variable valve timing and valve lift, turbochargers, variable displacement oil pumps, cylinder shut down, direct fuel injection, etc. Add to that the fact that less weight = better fuel economy, so they’re making things as light as possible. Super lightweight oils are also becoming widespread, though I’m no engineer so I can’t speak to what effect that’ll have long term.
I`m all for engine technology for economy, as long as they keep it simple. Take my GTI for example; 220ish HP at 270 TQ out of the tiny 2 litre turbocharged engine. But yet yesterday I was averaging 36-38mpg, in sport mode! Consistently is more economical than the Camry.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Don’t get me wrong - I’m 100% on board with how well the cars drive with all the tech.
It’s just a lot more moving parts. It’ll be interesting to see how all these turbocharged cars fare in the hands of civilians (vs back in the day when they tended to be more enthusiast cars) who view cars as appliances and likely won’t be terribly diligent about maintenance or letting the oil warm up a bit before rodding on it and really working the turbo; or letting it cool down from being molten hot after a highway blast before shutting the car off. I think most will have after run coolant pumps to circulate coolant through the turbo after shut down, but that oil just sits stagnant in there and gets cooked.
Sweet car by the way. My brother has a 16 TSi golf (he would have gone GTI if he could have swung it) and loves it. I’d say your engine’s pretty high tech-, as it’s got variable valve timing, variable intake valve lift(or intake runner length, or both), direct injection, and maybe more I’m not aware of. :D
Hopefully I’m not coming off as a doomsday-crier or big negative Nancy; I just see way too many neglected cars and have too much mechanical sympathy for them.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
German car fan here. For me, they have a unique something that I identify as soul. I have1992 MB 190E with 207k. I`ve had to replace most wear items in the 15 years that I`ve owned it. Sill drives like new. Also own a 2009 MB C350 that has been reliable and is my trip car. Super nice on the highway. Recently sold my Porsche 911. Loved it and miss it. I`ve had Toyota and Hyundia. Excellent but bland.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oneheadlite
Don’t get me wrong - I’m 100% on board with how well the cars drive with all the tech.
It’s just a lot more moving parts. It’ll be interesting to see how all these turbocharged cars fare in the hands of civilians (vs back in the day when they tended to be more enthusiast cars) who view cars as appliances and likely won’t be terribly diligent about maintenance or letting the oil warm up a bit before rodding on it and really working the turbo; or letting it cool down from being molten hot after a highway blast before shutting the car off. I think most will have after run coolant pumps to circulate coolant through the turbo after shut down, but that oil just sits stagnant in there and gets cooked. .
Yep, in many cases the owners have no idea that the car even has a turbo. There are so many cars now with them, going to get interesting as the turbo fleet ages. People look at me like I`m crazy for letting my Turbo cool down for a few minutes after a long highway run. I see people pull right in off the freeway into a rest stop and off the car goes. Add in the fact that zddp has been removed from all modern oils and you have no protection when that oil burns up.
Direct injection is another technology that is forced on to the masses. You have carbon buildup issues and HPFP issues. Where oil changes could be somewhat neglected before, now intervals are longer and there isn`t much margin for error.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
When we say that maintaining used cars gets expensive, I dunno...is it *really* more expensive than replacing them? Every now and then one of the Audis needs a bundle spent on it, but with a new A8/S8 (which we wouldn`t like as well) costing well into 6 figures we can swallow a lot of $5K or even $10K service bills and never come close to spending the same amount of money. And $5-10K at a time is a lot easier to swallow than one BIG check all at once.
Our dilemma is parts availability; Audi just doesn`t support their vehicles the way some makers do. If anybody ever cracks a head/tail light on the `93 it`s a paperweight. Even stuff for the A8 is getting really hard to find; we keep hearing "found the last one at a dealership in [wherever], hope you never need another.."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dan
Yep, in many cases the owners have no idea that the car even has a turbo. .
Gee, are people really that clueless about something they rely upon go get around?!?
Quote:
People look at me like I`m crazy for letting my Turbo cool down for a few minutes after a long highway run. I see people pull right in off the freeway into a rest stop and off the car goes...
Same comment...Accumulatortette had a few turbos and it`s not like I had to tell her anything about how to treat them.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
When we say that maintaining used cars gets expensive, I dunno...is it *really* more expensive than replacing them? Every now and then one of the Audis needs a bundle spent on it, but with a new A8/S8 (which we wouldn`t like as well) costing well into 6 figures we can swallow a lot of $5K or even $10K service bills and never come close to spending the same amount of money. And $5-10K at a time is a lot easier to swallow than one BIG check all at once.
Funny how we see the same thing in a different light. To me anything other than regular maintenance on a car with under 100k miles is unreasonable. The manufacturers tout "no tuneups needed for 100k" so yes, its reasonable for me to expect that major issues won`t occur in that time frame. And with Toyotas and Hondas (Lexus and Acura as well) that my family has owned, that has been true, NONE of them have needed anything other than scheduled maintenance until they cross well north of 100k. Two exceptions were an 80`s Celica and Tercel, both had AC issues, which of course was with the dealer installed AC. Can`t fault Toyota for that. FWIW, we`re looking at 12 cars and almost a million miles (wow can`t believe we drive that much!).
We had a 92 Saab 9000 that we spent almost as much on maintenance as we did on the original purchase price. Left my dad stranded 3 times I think. This is in 11 years of ownership.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oneheadlite
Don’t get me wrong - I’m 100% on board with how well the cars drive with all the tech.
It’s just a lot more moving parts. It’ll be interesting to see how all these turbocharged cars fare in the hands of civilians (vs back in the day when they tended to be more enthusiast cars) who view cars as appliances and likely won’t be terribly diligent about maintenance or letting the oil warm up a bit before rodding on it and really working the turbo; or letting it cool down from being molten hot after a highway blast before shutting the car off. I think most will have after run coolant pumps to circulate coolant through the turbo after shut down, but that oil just sits stagnant in there and gets cooked.
Sweet car by the way. My brother has a 16 TSi golf (he would have gone GTI if he could have swung it) and loves it. I’d say your engine’s pretty high tech-, as it’s got variable valve timing, variable intake valve lift(or intake runner length, or both), direct injection, and maybe more I’m not aware of. :D
Hopefully I’m not coming off as a doomsday-crier or big negative Nancy; I just see way too many neglected cars and have too much mechanical sympathy for them.
Oh I`m, super picky about maintenance. First oil change was at 1400 miles and the next is coming at 5K. Air and fuel filters at 10K.
BTW, it really likes E85/93 blend...
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
I`ll start this response - the way I start a lot of responses:
I dunno man.
I have a 2008 BMW M Roadster I`ve owned since 2010. It has 60k on it and has yet to need even a light bulb.
I`ve owned BMWs before this car and they`ve been very reliable.
I don`t daily drive a BMW because they don`t make a truck & I need that for the winter here.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
I need to remind myself that by the nature of my profession, I see the worst side cars.
Accumulator: Yes, some people really are that clueless. I kinda do-it-all at the shop, so I answer the phone and take appointments when the guys need help up front. I’ve had phone calls where the people calling literally don’t even know how many cylinder engine is in their car... You also bring up a great point that there are costs to both approaches- Just buying a new one, or repairing and keeping your “old” one. We’ve got a customer that in a short number of years has spent $20k plus on his 2002 745. He’s done the math both ways and is comfortable that it’s the right path for him. If his car was more Accumulator level condition, I wouldn’t second guess him, but...
Going the other way though, Not only do you have the high cost of entering ownership buying new, but then you have higher insurance and license plate fees to go with it.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dan
To me anything other than regular maintenance on a car with under 100k miles is unreasonable..
I bet that "what we`re used to" factors in along with the love of the individual vehicle, get used to stuff needing fixed and it`s "normal", don`t have such worries and *that* is normal. Even one of my two Hondas had serious problems all the time!
But at least there` s never anything that renders a vehicle INOP (probably because of our maintenance), just piddly stuff...or at least I catch the biggies before they get terminal.
Eh, with us being retired, it can take a long time to rack up miles these days so the whole "experience for the mileage" thing doesn`t really apply to us...consider that despite my newest vehicle being an `08, half of `em have under ~22K.
You mentioned how well Lexus has been for you- my wife and I both REALLY liked the original LS400 and then the LS30, but driving them was simply shocking...so, uhm....not Sport Sedan enough... that we quickly realized neither of us could drive such stuff. Had they offered a Hi-Po suspension/brake setup we would`ve loved `em.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneheadlite
.. Yes, some people really are that clueless...
I knee-jerk all snarky and think [crap] about people being "too dumb to live"...I just can`t imagine somebody relying on, and assuming the responsibility for, something as serious as a motor vehicle while being that ignorant about it. I mean, sheesh...when I met my wife she was far from a Car Person as I can imagine, but she *KNEW* everything she needed to know about her trusty (and RUSTY) ol` Mazda GLC and its maintenance was 100% covered. I mean, sheesh..it`s like appliances and [tools] and everything else, you just gotta know from your kit.
Maybe that 745 owner is in the same boat we are- likes that particular vehicle/model and they just aren`t making the exact same thing any more so that one has to last forever.
And yeah, over time the maintenance cost can easily exceed the original (new vehicle) price...I`m sure I`ve spent more than $35K on the Jag`s maintenance/etc. But with 6-figure cars getting commonplace that might change. I can`t imagine spending the cost of a new S8 on maintaining *anything*.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanicyouth
I don`t daily drive a BMW because they don`t make a truck & I need that for the winter here.
Heh heh, at least you don`t have one of their SUVs/CUVs...in my area those are the official vehicles of [jerks].
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
If you use OE parts, maintain everything ON SCHEDULE and change ALL fluids before the end of thier life cycle. You will almost never run into an issue. I have 5 European cars and have had ZERO major issues over the years. Parts on some have failed, but within the correct parameters. Coilpacks at 80K, Alternators around 100k etc. I`ve maintained them all pretty much flawlessly and again never had a major issue or been stranded.
06 Volvo S60R 2.5T - 114k miles
08 Audi B7 Avant 2.0T - 84K miles
11 Bmw 328 Xi - 55k miles
12 Merecedes C300 3.0 - 23k miles
14 Audi C7 S7 40T - 22K miles
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
My thing with the German cars is having the nerve to sell a 4cylinder for upwards of $50k. That’s just insane. Kicking ideas around on my next car and really like a couple of German models, but absolutely will not pay that kind of money for a 4 banger- I don’t care how turbo’d out it is- and the 6’s get to be out of my price range.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Your paying for engineering, saftey, mpg and european driving experience. Imo, never buy a european new always cpo or used outright. Having friends in autobody I can 100% say european cars ARE SAFER. You might walk out of a crash from pretty much any car today but there will be a difference in the condition you exit and what ill effects are caused down the road.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
The Driver- I dunno...had I not bought the A8/S8 new they`d probably not be in the same condition they`re in now. "It`s only original once" and all that, given the lengths I go to keeping `em that way. I`ve bought plenty of vehicles that were *almost* showroom new, but not one of them was as nice as it would`ve been had I owned it from the jump and I`ve never been able to *get* anything that nice either.
But for *practical* or economic reasons, I agree completely!
Concerning crashworthiness- Having been in a whole lotta crashes (most of `em were under controlled conditions/during training, but I`ve had a few near-checkout ones IRL too with full-size vehicles totaled out from under me), I prefer a body-on-frame when things go seriously sideways. Besides liking the B-o-F for the ability to stay (somewhat) mobile and the protection to the occupants, they`ve *never* been able to fix a seriously damaged unibody vehicle to my satisfaction; once certain things get tweaked the vehicle just never feels the same even when the specs say it should.
jrock645- It seems that your "won`t pay that for a 4" isn`t all that uncommon, especially among those who value engine sounds being a certain way. While I generally prefer a large engine with at least 8 cylinders, I *really* only care how it drives (throttle response, midrange torque, etc.).
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
jrock645- It seems that your "won`t pay that for a 4" isn`t all that uncommon, especially among those who value engine sounds being a certain way. While I generally prefer a large engine with at least 8 cylinders, I *really* only care how it drives (throttle response, midrange torque, etc.).
Don`t forget durability too. There are a lot of 4`s running around now pushing well over 100hp/liter. Whoever is in the turbo and cylinder head rebuilding business is going to be doing well for themselves.
I love how a turbo`d car drives, the boost surge is awesome (well, almost as awesome as pure electric) but they do nothing for reliability.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Dan- Heh heh, my pal Bob (of the old Jag MKII) is just like you and has kept a 911 Turbo of some kind in his garage since forever. *I* OTOH, utterly despise the "turbo surge" (let alone turbo LAG), preferring a flat (and fat) torque curve where it`s very linear. Different strokes and all that...
Guess that "boosted to within an inch of its life" thing may catch up to `em...wonder if they`re durable *IF* treated/maintained right.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
The Driver- I dunno...had I not bought the A8/S8 new they`d probably not be in the same condition they`re in now. "It`s only original once" and all that, given the lengths I go to keeping `em that way. I`ve bought plenty of vehicles that were *almost* showroom new, but not one of them was as nice as it would`ve been had I owned it from the jump and I`ve never been able to *get* anything that nice either.
But for *practical* or economic reasons, I agree completely!
Concerning crashworthiness- Having been in a whole lotta crashes (most of `em were under controlled conditions/during training, but I`ve had a few near-checkout ones IRL too with full-size vehicles totaled out from under me), I prefer a body-on-frame when things go seriously sideways. Besides liking the B-o-F for the ability to stay (somewhat) mobile and the protection to the occupants, they`ve *never* been able to fix a seriously damaged unibody vehicle to my satisfaction; once certain things get tweaked the vehicle just never feels the same even when the specs say it should.
jrock645- It seems that your "won`t pay that for a 4" isn`t all that uncommon, especially among those who value engine sounds being a certain way. While I generally prefer a large engine with at least 8 cylinders, I *really* only care how it drives (throttle response, midrange torque, etc.).
Its not about HP for me. Next car will be a 6 because theyre so much smoother than a 4. Smoother ride, smoother acceleration. And they don’t whine and grind when you have to punch it, they just purr along. Sadly, my options are dwindling as more and more car makers switch to turbo 4’s and drop 6’s to boost their MPG statistics.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
Dan- Heh heh, my pal Bob (of the old Jag MKII) is just like you and has kept a 911 Turbo of some kind in his garage since forever. *I* OTOH, utterly despise the "turbo surge" (let alone turbo LAG), preferring a flat (and fat) torque curve where it`s very linear. Different strokes and all that...
Guess that "boosted to within an inch of its life" thing may catch up to `em...wonder if they`re durable *IF* treated/maintained right.
I know your disdain for a lack of responsiveness! Your DBW threads for one! Have you driven any pure electric cars yet? Very fun and ZERO lag. I have a Leaf, which is bottom of the barrel, but it is a hoot to drive because it has gobs of torque and no lag whatsoever.
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Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
Dan- No, I *haven`t* driven an electric. I agree that they have a lot to offer and I`m absolutely *NOT* in the "internal combustion only" camp. But with all the electric cars featuring...technology...that I won`t have, I doubt that an electric is in my future. Heh heh, the `08 Crown Vic is quite possibly ("probably" even?) the latest model-year vehicle we`ll ever own...
Oh, and I also agree with you on the smoothness issue (my Jag`s V12..).
Heh heh, sounds like I made an impression with my DBW tales of woe! At least the DBW in the Crown Vic is OK...but we`ll see how it is when (heh heh, not "if" ;) ) I finally soup it up...which gives me another reason to keep putting that off (IME nothing messes up a reliable stock vehicle quite like good intentions and an open checkbook :o ).