How many cuts with M105 on OEM paint is too much?
I`m currently cutting & polishing my 16year old silver Mitsubishi wagon with M105 on yellow & orange Lake country pads & then polish with M205 with white pad. The paint has some small orange peel & so doesn`t look mirror flat even after an aggressive cut.
I did a test on sharpness of reflections, it seems 2-3 sessions with orange pad/M105 is the same as just one with yellow pad/M105. A session for me is two passes at around 1-2cm travel per second using 4" pads. The 6" pads seen to vibrate the panels too much.
So would 2 sessions on the yellow pad be cutting too deep? It`s hard to tell how much swirl the paint has being silver, so I just wanted to go more.
This had a previous owner & I have no idea if this vehicle has been cut & polished before. But I doubt it.
thanks
Re: How many cuts with M105 on OEM paint is too much?
Find yourself a paint gauge, Asian cars are notorious for very little clear! As far as seeing swirls on a silver car, you need at least a hand held light to spot them. I certainly wouldn`t try to remove all the texture especially if you have no gauge or history.
Re: How many cuts with M105 on OEM paint is too much?
On a 16 year old car it is probably more about preservation than perfection.
Re: How many cuts with M105 on OEM paint is too much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rlmccarty2000
On a 16 year old car it is probably more about preservation than perfection.
!!THAT!! Although, gee....my wife`s A8 and my Tahoe (our two dailies) are that old!
But anyhow...For starters, I wouldn`t remove factory orangepeel (henceforth "op" in this post), not even on my S8 with it`s relatively thick oe paint. NEVER on a Japanese vehicle. Period. I know some people here do it on some vehicles (hey guys!) but I`m all about long-term preservation.
Second, I wouldn`t remove it with M105/yellow or orange cutting pad. That combo is, IMO, too likely to follow the contours of the op; resulting in taking off a WHOLE LOT of clear while removing very LITTLE op. I`ve utterly hammered a lot of cars with M105 and it never removed op for me on b/c paint (made it a bit better if I *really* got aggressive, but not much and it`s a different story on some single stage). There are pads specifically designed for op work *IF* you want to do it that way instead of wetsanding (which can be MUCH SAFER if done correctly, but that`s an involved topic).
And yeah...use an ETG if you have any doubts about what you`re doing. And find out the oem`s specs for clearcoat removal (if they`re available). The ones from Ford are kinda scary and Fords have pretty much clear to start with.
And if ya can`t see the marring on silver/etc., IMO you oughta sort out your working conditions/lighting before trying something as advanced as op removal. I mean..walk before you run. The lighting that shows op is generally *VERY* different from the lighting that shows swirls/etc. Just (once again!) IMO, but having a vehicle basically marring-free is a whole lot more important that trying to redo the quality of a factory paintjob by altering its texture. Some people would even say that the original texture is part of how the vehicle is supposed to be (originality-wise). Fix the op on some classics and you`ll kill their value; they`ll look too different from how they orignally were.
Manix- Aw jeeze, the above probably sounds like I`m flaming you, and if so I apologize. Didn`t mean it that way but I saw a lot of red flags. I`m a bit of an originality nut and I`m really cautious about precipitating clearcoat failure (easy to do these days what with stuff like M105/etc.). I`m cautiously hopeful that you haven`t already gone too far, but I`d save every remaining micron of that paint for regular marring-removal. Most people can`t go very long before their paint needs corrected, and that car`s probably close to the "uh-oh!" point of Thin Paint already. Take off a bit too much and it`ll fail in the sun.
I think you have a *REALLY* great vehicle there in that Mitsu wagon! Not at all a common ride and IMO they look GREAT. Oh man, I`d be all about just preserving it so it can last forever...with its original paint if at all possible. Repainting stuff properly is generally a 5-figure proposition that people usually try to have done cheaply...with predictably sorry results.
OK- here`s some good news! If it still has marring like "swirls" then you might have enough remaining clear to be OK. Leveling it enough to fix the marring will generally require less cutting than leveling the op, at least IME.
Again, sorry if I came across like a [jerk]. Oh man, I bet my dogs would love that wagon....
Re: How many cuts with M105 on OEM paint is too much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
!!THAT!! Although, gee....my wife`s A8 and my Tahoe (our two dailies) are that old!
But anyhow...For starters, I wouldn`t remove factory orangepeel (henceforth "op" in this post), not even on my S8 with it`s relatively thick oe paint. NEVER on a Japanese vehicle. Period. I know some people here do it on some vehicles (hey guys!) but I`m all about long-term preservation.
Second, I wouldn`t remove it with M105/yellow or orange cutting pad. That combo is, IMO, too likely to follow the contours of the op; resulting in taking off a WHOLE LOT of clear while removing very LITTLE op. I`ve utterly hammered a lot of cars with M105 and it never removed op for me on b/c paint (made it a bit better if I *really* got aggressive, but not much and it`s a different story on some single stage). There are pads specifically designed for op work *IF* you want to do it that way instead of wetsanding (which can be MUCH SAFER if done correctly, but that`s an involved topic).
And yeah...use an ETG if you have any doubts about what you`re doing. And find out the oem`s specs for clearcoat removal (if they`re available). The ones from Ford are kinda scary and Fords have pretty much clear to start with.
And if ya can`t see the marring on silver/etc., IMO you oughta sort out your working conditions/lighting before trying something as advanced as op removal. I mean..walk before you run. The lighting that shows op is generally *VERY* different from the lighting that shows swirls/etc. Just (once again!) IMO, but having a vehicle basically marring-free is a whole lot more important that trying to redo the quality of a factory paintjob by altering its texture. Some people would even say that the original texture is part of how the vehicle is supposed to be (originality-wise). Fix the op on some classics and you`ll kill their value; they`ll look too different from how they orignally were.
Manix- Aw jeeze, the above probably sounds like I`m flaming you, and if so I apologize. Didn`t mean it that way but I saw a lot of red flags. I`m a bit of an originality nut and I`m really cautious about precipitating clearcoat failure (easy to do these days what with stuff like M105/etc.). I`m cautiously hopeful that you haven`t already gone too far, but I`d save every remaining micron of that paint for regular marring-removal. Most people can`t go very long before their paint needs corrected, and that car`s probably close to the "uh-oh!" point of Thin Paint already. Take off a bit too much and it`ll fail in the sun.
I think you have a *REALLY* great vehicle there in that Mitsu wagon! Not at all a common ride and IMO they look GREAT. Oh man, I`d be all about just preserving it so it can last forever...with its original paint if at all possible. Repainting stuff properly is generally a 5-figure proposition that people usually try to have done cheaply...with predictably sorry results.
OK- here`s some good news! If it still has marring like "swirls" then you might have enough remaining clear to be OK. Leveling it enough to fix the marring will generally require less cutting than leveling the op, at least IME.
Again, sorry if I came across like a [jerk]. Oh man, I bet my dogs would love that wagon....
Thanks for your detalied post. Always wan`t to learn & OEM paint sucks. Anyway I just wanted to add some extra gloss & not worried about the orange peel. So I might just give the whole car just one cut with M105 & then a polish.
thanks
Re: How many cuts with M105 on OEM paint is too much?
Manix- Glad that I apparently didn`t give offense. If anything, I`d give it one more with the M205 and then use a different (OK..."better" though that`ll [tick] off some M205 fans) Finishing Polish. I just don`t get the final finish I want with M205, especially after it`s Trade Secret Oils dissipate. E.g., 3D Polish works better for me and there are others that might even be better than that.
If you do decide to do more with the M105, I would *NOT* use the Yellow Cutting Pad. They leave too much micro-marring (sometimes it`s not so micro!) compared to an Orange Light Cut pad or a MF Cutting Disk. The MF ones are a lot easier to clean out between passes too, which I find crucial for good results. I`m always posting about how I spend more time cleaning pads and inspecting my work than I do on the actual buffing. It`s not like I`d ever do half a panel or somesuch without thoroughly cleaning my pad or getting out a fresh one; too much dried-out product and cut-off clear for good results, especially with something that cuts like M105 does.
I have mixed feelings about the quality of OE paint...while a (good) custom paintjob can sure look great, IME factory paint is generally more chip-resistant. And finding a good painter is *hard* these days, a lot of guys don`t even want to pull the glass.
Re: How many cuts with M105 on OEM paint is too much?
Griot`s fast cut on a 21 with a 5 inch pad will out do anything meguiars has to offer! And no dust!
Re: How many cuts with M105 on OEM paint is too much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
Manix- Glad that I apparently didn`t give offense. If anything, I`d give it one more with the M205 and then use a different (OK..."better" though that`ll [tick] off some M205 fans) Finishing Polish. I just don`t get the final finish I want with M205, especially after it`s Trade Secret Oils dissipate. E.g., 3D Polish works better for me and there are others that might even be better than that.
If you do decide to do more with the M105, I would *NOT* use the Yellow Cutting Pad. They leave too much micro-marring (sometimes it`s not so micro!) compared to an Orange Light Cut pad or a MF Cutting Disk. The MF ones are a lot easier to clean out between passes too, which I find crucial for good results. I`m always posting about how I spend more time cleaning pads and inspecting my work than I do on the actual buffing. It`s not like I`d ever do half a panel or somesuch without thoroughly cleaning my pad or getting out a fresh one; too much dried-out product and cut-off clear for good results, especially with something that cuts like M105 does.
I have mixed feelings about the quality of OE paint...while a (good) custom paintjob can sure look great, IME factory paint is generally more chip-resistant. And finding a good painter is *hard* these days, a lot of guys don`t even want to pull the glass.
No offense at all taken, great info. I will not use my yellow pad. About OEM paint, I always assumed it was thick enough for a good cut without any issues, really it`s not surprising giving that glass parts are now plastic, panels are so thin you can warp them while washing your car.
If i was ever going to get a pro paint job the body would have to be like the doors on a land rover defender.
Re: How many cuts with M105 on OEM paint is too much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manix
.. About OEM paint, I always assumed it was thick enough for a good cut without any issues..
I kinda think that repaints are often thicker, especially if you ask the painter not skimp on the clear. The OEM is trying to save money, not give you a long-lasting paintjob (just through the warranty period).r
Quote:
..really it`s not surprising .. panels are so thin you can warp them while washing your car.
Yeah, we had a little Mazda like that, bugged me something awful.
Quote:
If i was ever going to get a pro paint job the body would have to be like the doors on a land rover defender.
Heh heh, that was good :D
