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Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Last fall I bought a Redfire Ford Fusion. I clayed the car, applied Klasse AIO, then Klasse SG. The combo added the nice reflection I was expecting but also a bit of a wet look. A couple of weeks ago during the last Autopia sale I bought some Pinnacle Souveran and love it, a very wet look on the car.
But the car still has some swirls. I don`t want to attempt to remove them, so I have been researching options for filling the swirls. I`ve seen many endorsements of Poorboy`s Black Hole Show Glaze as a nice filler of swirls.
Here`s my question: Could PB`s BH be used in conjunction with the Klasse Twins? I`ve seen some that claim that Black Hole could be applied after the AIO and before the SG.
So could I use this process:
Wash
Clay
Wash
AIO
Black Hole
SG
top with Souveran
If so, how would the Klasse SG react with the Black Hole? SG typically lasts several months for me, but when it`s adhering to paint that has Black Hole on top of it, would that lessen the length of protection the SG would provide?
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Black hole will not work with the Klasse twins.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Is that true for any sealant or just Klasse SG? Because in this thread, a rep from Poorboy`s World seems to be saying you can use it before a sealant - Poorboys black hole glaze review
Additionally, if it`s just an issue with Klasse SG, what sealants could you recommend that would work well with Black Hole?
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
If you have P. Souveran.
I`d just use PBs Blackhole and top with 2 coats of Souveran
Then post some Pics please..;)
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
works with most sealants
just not ksg
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ronkh
works with most sealants
just not ksg
Thanks, so everything else is fine, I just need to get a new sealant to replace Klasse SG? I assume PoorBoy`s sealants would work well with Black Hole? In your opinion which would work better, EX or EX-P? Thanks!
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
EX has more filling power if I remember correctly
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ronkh
EX has more filling power if I remember correctly
EX says it has carnauba, so that makes sense. This is great, it will give me a chance to try out some PoorBoy`s products as I`ve read a look of good things here about them.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Hint.....
Apply black hole. - Do Not remove
Apply EX over bh, then let haze, then wipe off.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ronkh
Hint.....
Apply black hole. - Do Not remove
Apply EX over bh, then let haze, then wipe off.
words from the king!
it works, I know from 1st hand experience
but you forgot chilled spray and gloss
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
I can wholeheartedly recommend Black Hole then Natty`s Blue wax. Natty`s asts about as long as EX and it looks amazing. I have a pic somewhere, I`ll dig it out.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
black hole + ex day one
nattys blue tomorrow
ftw
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ronkh
black hole + ex day one
nattys blue tomorrow
ftw
Just ordered Black Hole and EX, will top with the Souveran I ordered last month, thanks to all for the advice!
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Souveran will barely last from wash-to-wash and will need redone constantly. And it offers minimal protection against etching from bugs/birds. Not hating on it, I use it on my Jag. Just sayin`....
Ronkh says that the PBBH works fine under FK1000P, so that`s what I`d do. FK1000 is one of the few LSPs that compares with (heavily layered) KSG, compares so well that I basically quit using the latter.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MackCollier
Just ordered Black Hole and EX, will top with the Souveran I ordered last month, thanks to all for the advice!
Will probably look good for a month.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Skip the Souveran. Go w something more durable. FK1000 is a great suggestion.
Sent from my Galaxy Tab S2 using Tapatalk
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rsurfer
Will probably look good for a month.
That`s about as long as I could stand to go without getting the itch to re-do it so it should be perfect then!
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
Souveran will barely last from wash-to-wash and will need redone constantly. And it offers minimal protection against etching from bugs/birds. Not hating on it, I use it on my Jag. Just sayin`....
Ronkh says that the PBBH works fine under FK1000P, so that`s what I`d do. FK1000 is one of the few LSPs that compares with (heavily layered) KSG, compares so well that I basically quit using the latter.
Have been reading the forum and FK1000p gets a lot of good reviews. But can it be used after a sealant? Or should it be used in place of a sealant?
I`m thinking since it apparently has superior durability that if I could use it with Klasse SG that the pair could be perfect for putting on in late Fall to cover the winter. Maybe use BH/EX/Souveran in the summer then switch to KSG/FK1000p for the winter. Is that possible or would it be FK1000p by itself?
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Maybe use BH/EX/Souveran all the time. You have sealant under the wax so even when the wax gives way, the EX is there to protect until you get a chance to reapply the Souveran and enjoy all the good car karma that goes with that process. Some of these waxes like Souveran, P21, Lusso Oro, Rainforest Rub - they exist for us to have fun with. So have fun.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MackCollier
That`s about as long as I could stand to go without getting the itch to re-do it so it should be perfect then!
You may soon be qualified to be in the Wax Wasters Club
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WaxAddict
Maybe use BH/EX/Souveran all the time. You have sealant under the wax so even when the wax gives way, the EX is there to protect until you get a chance to reapply the Souveran and enjoy all the good car karma that goes with that process. Some of these waxes like Souveran, P21, Lusso Oro, Rainforest Rub - they exist for us to have fun with. So have fun.
exactly !!! They are all just sacrificial layers as the clearcoat is a pretty good protection of the paint ;)
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
FK1000p is a solid performer by itself. Even though it comes as a "paste wax", it`s really a super wax/sealant. I use it on my DD, and two layers at least a day apart can get you 4-6 months. To specifically answer your question, yes, a great winter wax (though, I use it year-round), and you would use is as the sealant (i.e., the "base layer", not the "wax topper").
I think what Accumulator was getting at is use PBBH to fill the swirls, then try a couple layers of FK1000p. I`ve never tried FK over the Black Hole, but if Ron thinks it will work, I would trust him. He might have more experience than anyone (besides Poorboy`s themselves) using Poorboys products.
If wanting to use the BH/EX/Souveran combo, this should be a great combo for the summer time. The BH/FK1000p would be the more durable option to last for the winter.
Hope this helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MackCollier
Have been reading the forum and FK1000p gets a lot of good reviews. But can it be used after a sealant? Or should it be used in place of a sealant?
I`m thinking since it apparently has superior durability that if I could use it with Klasse SG that the pair could be perfect for putting on in late Fall to cover the winter. Maybe use BH/EX/Souveran in the summer then switch to KSG/FK1000p for the winter. Is that possible or would it be FK1000p by itself?
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MackCollier
Have been reading the forum and FK1000p gets a lot of good reviews. But can it be used after a sealant? Or should it be used in place of a sealant?
I`m thinking since it apparently has superior durability that if I could use it with Klasse SG that the pair could be perfect for putting on in late Fall to cover the winter. Maybe use BH/EX/Souveran in the summer then switch to KSG/FK1000p for the winter. Is that possible or would it be FK1000p by itself?
Use the Fk1000P in place of a sealant. While it`s called a "High Temperature Wax" in reality it`s just a sealant in paste form.
No need for underlying KSG. Consider that my previous sealant approach was ~6 layers of KSG. I replaced that regimen with 1-2 layers of FK1000P because it provides at least as much protection for at least as long and also sheds contamination *better* and, IMO looks *much* better. And two layers (one initial application, the second after the next regularly-scheduled wash) is a *LOT* easier and more convenient than six layers applied over the course of six consecutive days (which gave me the best KSG results, hands-down).
And FK1000P is easier to apply than KSG for most people (note that most people use a zillion times more KSG than is needed; one ounce is way more than enough for a Suburban). Eh, most people use more of *every* LSP than they need to...IMO if you can see it on the paint before you buff it off you probably used too much.
IME there are only two benefits that KSG has over other (conventional, i.e., non-coating) LSPs:
1) the way it can, *if heavily layered and I don`t mean just 3-4*, provide a rather thick (relatively speaking) "plasticy build-film" which can impart a *VERY SLIGHT* physical barrier between the paint and the environment. For that reason I continue use it on high-gloss exterior black plastics.
2) similarly, it`s easy to use, and effective, on textured exterior plastic/rubber trim. Apply it *VERY THIN* using the wipe-on-wipe-off method (don`t let it flash before you buff it off). Other LSPs can be used this way too (I`ve done it with FK1000P), but the chance of an "!oops!" is so great that, well...don`t try this at home, kids (major exception being Collinite 845, used as per the KSG it`s idiot proof).
Gotta try Ron`s PBBH under FK1000P some time...but FK1000P lasts so long that it`ll be ages before I reLSP anything.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
If you`re still seeing swirls after the Klasse twins and Souveran, it`s possible the swirls are simply too deep to be filled...
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RaskyR1
If you`re still seeing swirls after the Klasse twins and Souveran, it`s possible the swirls are simply too deep to be filled...
I`ve never experienced any filling with KSG and/or Souveran. IIRC some people *have* had KSG do some filling, but it never happened for me.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
I`ve never experienced any filling with KSG and/or Souveran. IIRC some people *have* had KSG do some filling, but it never happened for me.
I wasn`t implying anything, just that IME all waxes, sealants, AIO`s, and polishes fill to some degree. With 3 products already on the paint I can`t imagine there would be much difference and I think the OP may be expecting too much from the fillers. Just my $.02 :)
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
Use the Fk1000P in place of a sealant. While it`s called a "High Temperature Wax" in reality it`s just a sealant in paste form.
No need for underlying KSG. Consider that my previous sealant approach was ~6 layers of KSG. I replaced that regimen with 1-2 layers of FK1000P because it provides at least as much protection for at least as long and also sheds contamination *better* and, IMO looks *much* better. And two layers (one initial application, the second after the next regularly-scheduled wash) is a *LOT* easier and more convenient than six layers applied over the course of six consecutive days (which gave me the best KSG results, hands-down).
And FK1000P is easier to apply than KSG for most people (note that most people use a zillion times more KSG than is needed; one ounce is way more than enough for a Suburban). Eh, most people use more of *every* LSP than they need to...IMO if you can see it on the paint before you buff it off you probably used too much.
IME there are only two benefits that KSG has over other (conventional, i.e., non-coating) LSPs:
1) the way it can, *if heavily layered and I don`t mean just 3-4*, provide a rather thick (relatively speaking) "plasticy build-film" which can impart a *VERY SLIGHT* physical barrier between the paint and the environment. For that reason I continue use it on high-gloss exterior black plastics.
2) similarly, it`s easy to use, and effective, on textured exterior plastic/rubber trim. Apply it *VERY THIN* using the wipe-on-wipe-off method (don`t let it flash before you buff it off). Other LSPs can be used this way too (I`ve done it with FK1000P), but the chance of an "!oops!" is so great that, well...don`t try this at home, kids (major exception being Collinite 845, used as per the KSG it`s idiot proof).
Gotta try Ron`s PBBH under FK1000P some time...but FK1000P lasts so long that it`ll be ages before I reLSP anything.
Now that I understand that FK1000p is more a sealant than wax, I`ll definitely look at going with it over BH in the future. I have to say I love how KSG looks on the car now, but it took much trial and error to figure out how little to apply and the long curing times, I was typically waiting 24 hours inbetween layers. Sounds like FK1000p would be much easier to apply and remove, with similar durability as KSG. It`s definitely on the shopping list for next time, thanks!
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
apply in thin layers and keep it off trim, you should be golden! good luck!
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RaskyR1
I wasn`t implying anything, just that IME all waxes, sealants, AIO`s, and polishes fill to some degree. With 3 products already on the paint I can`t imagine there would be much difference and I think the OP may be expecting too much from the fillers. Just my $.02 :)
Eh, hope I didn`t come across as being contentious or anything, didn`t intend that. The "all LSPs fill to some extent" concept makes perfect sense to me, I just can`t recall it ever working out that way for me IRL for some reason! Maybe I overkill the inspection too much or don`t have the right kind (i.e., really *really* fine) marring or...who knows what. Just one of those YMMV things I guess. I can almost remember who it was here...wannfbody perhaps?...who said how great KSG filled for him and while I`m 100% confident that was his experience, I just couldn`t get it to work for me...wish it would on those gloss black plastic "B pillars"!
Quote:
Now that I understand that FK1000p is more a sealant than wax, I`ll definitely look at going with it over BH in the future. I have to say I love how KSG looks on the car now, but it took much trial and error to figure out how little to apply and the long curing times, I was typically waiting 24 hours inbetween layers. Sounds like FK1000p would be much easier to apply and remove, with similar durability as KSG. It`s definitely on the shopping list for next time, thanks!
If you do try FK1000P I hope you like it as much as I do. KSG has a definite "signature look" and FK1000P looks quite different (at least to me).
For some reason I`ve always found KSG *VERY* user-friendly! Might be the only guy here who does, but that`s just more YMMV stuff. My only gripe with it (well, other than how it looks) was having to keep the vehicle off the road for so long while I layered it.
As for the durability, see how two layers of FK1000P compares with [however many] layers of KSG *for you*. I was astounded that the FK lasted longer and kept cleaning up better, even on wheels.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
What about BH followed by Collinite 476.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Larry A
What about BH followed by Collinite 476.
That would almost certainly look better than the BH followed by FK1000P on any colors other than white/silver/etc. Just wouldn`t last as long before needing redone.
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
I received the BH and EX today and used both. Perhaps I didn`t apply correctly, but I saw no visible improvement in the swirls.
I just applied to the hood. I washed the entire hood, then clayed the entire hood and washed again. Then I applied Klasse AIO. Then I applied the BH to just one half of the hood and saw no improvement. I applied and let it sit for about a minute, and buffed off. I did this 3 more times and still saw no improvement. At this point I added the EX sealant, and that didn`t seem to add any filling either. I then added 2 layers of Souveran, and still no filling.
The only positive I noticed from using the Poorboy`s products was that flakes in the paint seem to pop out a bit more now. But I really saw no filling of the swirls. Did I do something wrong?
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MackCollier
I received the BH and EX today and used both. Perhaps I didn`t apply correctly, but I saw no visible improvement in the swirls.
I just applied to the hood. I washed the entire hood, then clayed the entire hood and washed again. Then I applied Klasse AIO. Then I applied the BH to just one half of the hood and saw no improvement. I applied and let it sit for about a minute, and buffed off. I did this 3 more times and still saw no improvement. At this point I added the EX sealant, and that didn`t seem to add any filling either. I then added 2 layers of Souveran, and still no filling.
The only positive I noticed from using the Poorboy`s products was that flakes in the paint seem to pop out a bit more now. But I really saw no filling of the swirls. Did I do something wrong?
You need to let klasse cure........ But bh really doesn`t play will with klasse.
And you may need 2 coats of bh
Look for a thread of mine called it`s a cover up
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ronkh
You need to let klasse cure........ But bh really doesn`t play will with klasse.
And you may need 2 coats of bh
Look for a thread of mine called it`s a cover up
you will not see the products fill as the Klasse is sealing the surface and will not allow the Black Hole to do its job .. try removing the klasse from a section and then redo without ;)
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poorboy
you will not see the products fill as the Klasse is sealing the surface and will not allow the Black Hole to do its job .. try removing the klasse from a section and then redo without ;)
I went back and checked the thread and I wasn`t very clear. I had asked about using the Klasse twins and I believe Ron said no, but I assumed that meant that Klasse SG was the problem, but it looks like both you and he were actually saying that NEITHER AIO or SG would work well with BH?
Just to clarify....I can`t use Klasse All-In-One with the BH?
Assuming that`s the case, what`s the best way to remove AIO? Yes I am well on my way to wasting wax :)
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MackCollier
I went back and checked the thread and I wasn`t very clear. I had asked about using the Klasse twins and I believe Ron said no, but I assumed that meant that Klasse SG was the problem, but it looks like both you and he were actually saying that NEITHER AIO or SG would work well with BH?
Just to clarify....I can`t use Klasse All-In-One with the BH?
Assuming that`s the case, what`s the best way to remove AIO? Yes I am well on my way to wasting wax :)
yes klasse doesn`t play well with others
a light polish should remove the AIO
just curious but is this a repaint ?
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
To add (in case another point of confusion):
The Blackhole should be the first thing applied to the clean / clayed paint, then your Sealant (EX, FK1000p, Collinite 476, etc.), then your wax topper (Souveran).
As Poorboys mentioned, applying BH over an existing selant or wax won`t let the fillers do their job.
Nick
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Re: Advice on filling swirls, will this process work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poorboy
yes klasse doesn`t play well with others
a light polish should remove the AIO
just curious but is this a repaint ?
Original paint. Does Poorboy`s make a product that would clean the AIO off the paint without affecting the clearcoat? I really don`t want to remove any of the clearcoat, I would much rather fill the swirls then seal, which is why I bought BH and EX to begin with. Thanks!