"3 detailing jobs I declined"

Another gem from Scotty. The art of saying "no" to a customer:





One of the most difficult lessons of the detailing business is that you`re better of turning some jobs away. It`s a skill you learn in the transition from busy to profitable. Here`s 3 memorable examples.



1. Wholesale car auction:



I received a call from the manager of a local auction requesting that we begin reconditioning wholesale cars for them ASAP as they had heard good things about us from a mutual business contact. I met with the manager and from the get go it was obvious we were on a completely different page about pricing and turnaround time. He claimed he had 100 cars a month for us but these cars were in poor condition. He requested our best effort but understood the cars wouldn`t get the treatment that our retail customers received. His budget and expectations did not intersect. Add to that a 30-60 day wait for payment, and this was a big fish I tossed back into the sea.



2. “Here`s my budget. Do the best you can."



I had a very sweet older woman stop in the shop and inquire about our services for her badly neglected Ford Focus. After having a look together at her car and suggesting either a full interior shampoo or full detail due to the amount of time it would require to properly detail the car she asserted that she didn’t want to spend any money and this was merely a “treat� for her car as she hadn’t cleaned it in 5 years. Looking at our services list she picked our cheapest service and exclaimed “I’ll take that one�. The service she was requesting included nowhere near the amount of time it would require to even give her interior a proper vacuum and wipe down let alone leaving time for the car wash + windows included. This scenario is a no win situation. You either do a great job and “eat� the significant extra time and effort free of charge or try and whip through the job within the time constraint of what she is willing to pay and try and make it presentable. I know from experience that never works because despite a customer’s assurance of “do the best you can for X dollars and I’ll be happy� they rarely are and were the #1 source of complaints for me early on at my business when we would try and do what the customer wanted. I will usually either offer the correct service and if they don’t want it or can afford it refer them to the local drive through car wash that will tackle jobs like that cheap and avoid the headaches for myself. Bottom line: two adults rarely agree on the concept of "best effort."



3. “No experience necessary�:



I have at times been asked to do jobs that I really didn’t have the experience or training to properly handle. In these cases you “might� be able to turn out an acceptable result but most likely will spend an unacceptable amount of time for what you are being paid. Worse yet, you can damage your reputation by failing on an overly ambitious project. Customers will respect that you won’t tackle something you aren’t equipped or trained to handle and if the opportunity continues to present itself you can take the time to get training and proper equipment to ensure a satisfactory result. To illustrate this, we recently had to completely wet sand and polish a Maserati that had been improperly sanded by a body shop. The customer was furious and the body shop is now having their reputation tarnished all over the city every time that customer speaks of his experience with them. Lesson to be learned is don’t tackle jobs you shouldn’t be doing.



Declining a job opportunity is not a sign of weakness. Rather, it’s a continuation of an opportunity for an ongoing relationship. Use your refusal as a chance to describe what kind of work is a better fit, and be willing to make a reference to someone in your network who can fulfill their needs and return the referral in the future. Such a discussion might sound something like this, delivered via a phone call, e-mail or in a face-to-face meeting:



“I’m sorry, but it looks like this job won’t be a good fit for us at this time. Let me refer you to another vendor (or two) that is in a better position to handle this (or has more expertise) and would be able to help you out with it.�



There is a subtle art to delivering these words, especially in the midst of any critical negotiation with a new or long-term client. Be sincere, and remember that this will not be the last opportunity you will receive if your conversation goes well.



Scott Perkin

Owner: Scotty’s Shine Shop in London, Ontario.

Original article on auto detailing business management.

I totally agree with all points. I know we hear "times are tough" but you still run YOUR business. I do not like to be taken advantage of or give work away for free.



Thanks for this post. So much valuable information here.

BINGO!!!!!



I turn down jobs all the time!



My favorite one:



guy calls me up asking how much to wetsand and wax his hood.

I ask why it needs wetsanding

he tells me he tried rubbing compound on it and it ruined the paint and he was told it needs to be sanded and waxed

I told and explained the proper way to do things, how long it might take and everything else involved

he told me he was told it would take about 10 minutes and should run about 50-60 bucks from someone else

I laughed to myself and said "i`m obviously not the guy you are looking for". Try someone else, i wont touch it for less than XXX amount.

he said thanks and hung up



while I hate turning down jobs, Im not about to work for free either!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toyotaguy

BINGO!!!!!



I turn down jobs all the time!



My favorite one:



guy calls me up asking how much to wetsand and wax his hood.

I ask why it needs wetsanding

he tells me he tried rubbing compound on it and it ruined the paint and he was told it needs to be sanded and waxed

I told and explained the proper way to do things, how long it might take and everything else involved

he told me he was told it would take about 10 minutes and should run about 50-60 bucks from someone else

I laughed to myself and said "i`m obviously not the guy you are looking for". Try someone else, i wont touch it for less than XXX amount.

he said thanks and hung up



while I hate turning down jobs, Im not about to work for free either!

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:rofl: Where the hell do people get these bright ideas from?!

Then I`d ask him why the heck didn`t he take it to that guy?

"How much to clean the front seats in my `92 Grand Am. I`m in Garland". Yeah, driving 65 mile round trip to clean two seats. No brainer to turn down.

"Need my motorcycle washed, mostly fairing. I figure $15 is fair". He would have been a 90 mile round trip.



Stupid stuff like that is easy, so are people who in the past haven`t paid promptly. Had an overspray job that turned out to be concrete on a single stage white, very badly faded mid 90s Civic. The TOL chemical for cement overspray is tinted green, I can see that turning out really well on faded white paint. Plus the owner of the car was a real nasty *****, mad at the company who got the cement on her car, so she was mad at me since I must work for the company if they sent me to look at the car. Ended up turning it down, didn`t want to chance staining the paint green, nor was I going to polish it out first for free (owner of the car was insisting I make it look factory new) and deal with such a nasty person.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin Murphy

Then I`d ask him why the heck didn`t he take it to that guy?

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He probably thought $50 for 10 minutes work was outrageous and the guy on YouTube says you can do it yourself with products you probably already have in your garage!

I turn down jobs all the time. I`m not doing this to feed the family, so it is a luxury a hobby detailer can afford I guess, but some of these I would have turned down even if it was a full time gig. The money just has to be there for me to do a job. I`ve had customers with very large vehicles like an H2 who want it fully polished and perfected after 5 years of neglect and they don`t want to pay for my time. If someone is going to monopolize my time, then they are going to pay for that. There is value in being able to service multiple customers and generate more referral business, so taking my time for an entire day is going to cost you. If that isn`t acceptable, then I guess it`s not skin off my nose and I`ll fill my day with three other clients instead of one greedy one.



I also turn down jobs when I know the customer has expectations which are not realistic. If the clear coat is gone and they are expecting it to look new when it is done, then I let them know what the reality is. If I know they are just going to make life difficult the whole process and not be happy and just cause me frustration, then I`ll just price it out of the market and let them know what to expect and hopefully they just go away. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toyotaguy

My favorite one:



guy calls me up asking how much to wetsand and wax his hood.

I ask why it needs wetsanding

he tells me he tried rubbing compound on it and it ruined the paint and he was told it needs to be sanded and waxed

I told and explained the proper way to do things, how long it might take and everything else involved

he told me he was told it would take about 10 minutes and should run about 50-60 bucks from someone else

I laughed to myself and said "i`m obviously not the guy you are looking for". Try someone else, i wont touch it for less than XXX amount.

he said thanks and hung up



while I hate turning down jobs, Im not about to work for free either!

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People are interesting, to say the least.

I think I have only passed on one, so far. It was a minivan that was owned by a good friend`s sister. She told me her nephews pick their noses and plant them around inside the van. Like MC Hammer said,"Can`t touch this"

"I was told, that should just polish out" is my favorite, acting like it is a 10 min job. After years of explaining the proper way and rarely getting any where. It is now, this is the price. Take it or take it to someone else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by salty

"I was told, that should just polish out" is my favorite, acting like it is a 10 min job. After years of explaining the proper way and rarely getting any where. It is now, this is the price. Take it or take it to someone else.

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I just love it when doing an inspection on a car, the owner is saying "oh yeah, this will polish out" while rubbing the whole area with their hand. :wall

I hate working on a car while the customer runs to his garage cabinet and gets his products and brags on them.



Why the fook did you call me then????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by salty

"I was told, that should just polish out" is my favorite, acting like it is a 10 min job. After years of explaining the proper way and rarely getting any where. It is now, this is the price. Take it or take it to someone else.

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LMAO I had a woman come in once and tell me "my co-worker told me the scratches on my car can be buffed out - how much?". So we go out to look at her car and the "scratches" are right down to bare metal! I told her they couldn`t be repaired because the scratches were through the entire paint finish and would need to have the affected panels repainted. She looked at me and kept repeating "well my co-worker told me they could be buffed out". Just couldn`t get it through her head that the paint where the scratches were was GONE and there has to be something to actually polish out.

Well get your co-worker to buff them out brainiac!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin Murphy

I hate working on a car while the customer runs to his garage cabinet and gets his products and brags on them.



Why the fook did you call me then????

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I lost track of the number of clients that have done this to me. So frustrating. It`s almost always something you can find on the bargain shelf at walmart or pepboys too. :frusty:

I`ve turned down boats, motorhomes, motorcycles, etc. I hate doing it (especially for good customers), I`ll usually say something like "It`s a bit out of my league" or "I wouldn`t feel comfortable getting into a job that I have no prior experience with". Most of the time they understand.



Certain customers can really be a PITA. One annoying situation that I`ve been in a few times is when a customer wants a wash and wax, and when they come to pick the car up and inspect it they will say something to the effect of "You couldn`t do anything about this scratch?". Well, gee, I`ve explained to you what polishing is and what it does, you didn`t want it, what kind of result did you expect? No, I won`t be breaking out the 1500 grit and wool pads on a hunch that you might have wanted scratches removed on a basic wash and wax "detail".



I`ve been in similar scenarios with bug etching on the front of the car and on the mirrors. Customer wanted a basic exterior detail (clay, AIO type polish followed by OCW) and when I drop the car off, he goes "Those bugs must have really been tough to remove, eh?" (I know this customer rather well and could tell that he was implying that I ought to have done a "better" job). I explain to him that the "bugs" he was seeing is actually bug guts that have etched into the paint and it would have required compounding and polishing the whole nose of the car (defects which you didn`t request be removed in the first place), and he looks at me dumbfounded. Yes, bugs will etch paint when you don`t wash your black car for three months during the middle of summer.



I know everyone likes to say that to be successful requires going above and beyond what the customer asked for and to completely blow them away, and that is true to an extent. But I won`t be doing defect removal for "free" when it`s going to take me an extra twenty or thirty minutes, nor will I scrub grime from your tan leather seats when all you ask for is your interior to be vacuumed and windows cleaned.

I hate turning down work, whatever it is. Just bad business, but after being is this biz for over 20 years, there is work that is not worth the work. Pun intended.



Last week a lady phoned me before before business hours, a week I usually take off anyways, Christmas to New Years. Asking to shampoo her back seat area because her kid got sick. Normally it would be a speech on bio hazard, but I politely said I was on holidaze

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bigpoppa3346

I`ve turned down boats, motorhomes, motorcycles, etc. I hate doing it (especially for good customers), I`ll usually say something like "It`s a bit out of my league" or "I wouldn`t feel comfortable getting into a job that I have no prior experience with". Most of the time they understand.



Certain customers can really be a PITA. One annoying situation that I`ve been in a few times is when a customer wants a wash and wax, and when they come to pick the car up and inspect it they will say something to the effect of "You couldn`t do anything about this scratch?". Well, gee, I`ve explained to you what polishing is and what it does, you didn`t want it, what kind of result did you expect? No, I won`t be breaking out the 1500 grit and wool pads on a hunch that you might have wanted scratches removed on a basic wash and wax "detail".



I`ve been in similar scenarios with bug etching on the front of the car and on the mirrors. Customer wanted a basic exterior detail (clay, AIO type polish followed by OCW) and when I drop the car off, he goes "Those bugs must have really been tough to remove, eh?" (I know this customer rather well and could tell that he was implying that I ought to have done a "better" job). I explain to him that the "bugs" he was seeing is actually bug guts that have etched into the paint and it would have required compounding and polishing the whole nose of the car (defects which you didn`t request be removed in the first place), and he looks at me dumbfounded. Yes, bugs will etch paint when you don`t wash your black car for three months during the middle of summer.



I know everyone likes to say that to be successful requires going above and beyond what the customer asked for and to completely blow them away, and that is true to an extent. But I won`t be doing defect removal for "free" when it`s going to take me an extra twenty or thirty minutes, nor will I scrub grime from your tan leather seats when all you ask for is your interior to be vacuumed and windows cleaned.

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This is where educating your customers and making sure you know exactly what their expectations are BEFORE you start is hugely important. Making sure you explain all the different possibilities of what you can do and how much each will cost can help avoid customers coming back and complaining about things they didn`t want to pay for. I try and avoid doing these types of jobs - especially with interior jobs. I can`t even begin to get into how many people come in and need a shampoo but demand just a "quickie" because they don`t want to pay. That was always the #1 source of customer complaints for me when I first opened

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bigpoppa3346

I`ve turned down boats, motorhomes, motorcycles, etc. I hate doing it (especially for good customers), I`ll usually say something like "It`s a bit out of my league" or "I wouldn`t feel comfortable getting into a job that I have no prior experience with". Most of the time they understand.



Certain customers can really be a PITA. One annoying situation that I`ve been in a few times is when a customer wants a wash and wax, and when they come to pick the car up and inspect it they will say something to the effect of "You couldn`t do anything about this scratch?". Well, gee, I`ve explained to you what polishing is and what it does, you didn`t want it, what kind of result did you expect? No, I won`t be breaking out the 1500 grit and wool pads on a hunch that you might have wanted scratches removed on a basic wash and wax "detail".



I`ve been in similar scenarios with bug etching on the front of the car and on the mirrors. Customer wanted a basic exterior detail (clay, AIO type polish followed by OCW) and when I drop the car off, he goes "Those bugs must have really been tough to remove, eh?" (I know this customer rather well and could tell that he was implying that I ought to have done a "better" job). I explain to him that the "bugs" he was seeing is actually bug guts that have etched into the paint and it would have required compounding and polishing the whole nose of the car (defects which you didn`t request be removed in the first place), and he looks at me dumbfounded. Yes, bugs will etch paint when you don`t wash your black car for three months during the middle of summer.



I know everyone likes to say that to be successful requires going above and beyond what the customer asked for and to completely blow them away, and that is true to an extent. But I won`t be doing defect removal for "free" when it`s going to take me an extra twenty or thirty minutes, nor will I scrub grime from your tan leather seats when all you ask for is your interior to be vacuumed and windows cleaned.

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After a few hundred cars, you learn to point out the "land mines" on cars when you check the car in:



1. Scratches that reached basecoat

2. Stains that won`t come out 100%

3. Dog hair that can`t be completely removed.

4. Brake dust staining that is permanent.

5. Items not covered by a "cheaper" or "quickie" service.



Don`t just take the keys and go to work. Do a 2 minute walkaround and realistically describe what you can achieve...every time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShineShop

This is where educating your customers and making sure you know exactly what their expectations are BEFORE you start is hugely important. Making sure you explain all the different possibilities of what you can do and how much each will cost can help avoid customers coming back and complaining about things they didn`t want to pay for. I try and avoid doing these types of jobs - especially with interior jobs. I can`t even begin to get into how many people come in and need a shampoo but demand just a "quickie" because they don`t want to pay. That was always the #1 source of customer complaints for me when I first opened

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 602rwtq

After a few hundred cars, you learn to point out the "land mines" on cars when you check the car in:



1. Scratches that reached basecoat

2. Stains that won`t come out 100%

3. Dog hair that can`t be completely removed.

4. Brake dust staining that is permanent.

5. Items not covered by a "cheaper" or "quickie" service.



Don`t just take the keys and go to work. Do a 2 minute walkaround and realistically describe what you can achieve...every time.

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Don`t get me wrong, the number of times I`ve had issues with customers can be counted on two hands; and yes, this is over the course of several hundred cars. I should probably just chalk it up to an anomaly more than anything.



The issue with scratch removal with a wash and wax was indeed after I spent a bit of time going over things with the customer (he wanted an interior detail and wash and wax). They were fine scratches (more like isolated deep marring, removed without much fuss), but the thing was, for each "scratch" he pointed out (maybe 2 or 3 total), I saw several more on less noticable areas or on lower panels. So do I point those other ones out to him, or leave it be? To give a little context, it was on a dark blue Boxster that he was putting away for the winter, and he said (again, prior to the detail) that he would have me polish it in the spring.



The bug etching was a weird situation which I won`t get into, as it wasn`t a big deal, but it reminds me of another scenario I was in. I did maintenance washes on a few cars for an elderly couple, I spoke with the husband who wanted X done on two cars, I do it, he pays me, then his wife calls me ~4 hours later complaining that I didn`t do Y. I ended up doing it for free (Y being the seats and dash cleaned, too) because the rest of her family are excellent customers of mine and it only required a half an hour. I kind of dislike dealing with elderly customers (particularly this one) due to things like this. I guess when one reaches their late 70s, spousal communication isn`t at its peak, plus they can just forget what work they requested be done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by salty

Just bad business, but after being is this biz for over 20 years, there is work that is not worth the work. Pun intended.

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Not a pun bro.

Holy 6 1/2 year old thread brump Bump Wrsity !
You must have finished installing the flux capacity on the De-l-en

Holy 6 1/2 year old thread brump Bump Wrsity !<br>You must have finished installing the flux capacity on the De-l-en

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Originally Posted by mobiledynamics

Holy 6 1/2 year old thread brump Bump Wrsity !
You must have finished installing the flux capacity on the De-l-en

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Second time I’ve done this today.

Get me to 88mph stat.

Uh, More like the 1st 3 post of this brand new account was like that. I`m not sure if you`re trollin....but I`m out of these old @@# threads

I`m finding a few of `em interesting, though I guess most are just making me all "oh sheesh, and we still have that today..".

Heh heh, others make me more certain than ever that my going to a Pro would generally just make both parties miserable. E.g., the "customer`s crappy products"..My local "Pro" (scare-quotes intentional) would LSP mine with something other than FK1000P. Hmmm...think I`d be as satisfied? Some of my tires are *perfect* with Griot`s, others with Pinnacle, others with Zaino; use the wrong one and it`s obvious to me. Think he`d get that right?

This may be one industry that actually hates an informed consumer! [INSERT usual rant about what happened when the Pro didn`t listen to me about how to approach my Jag :( ]

There is one caveat that I see from these "old threads" on turning down jobs: If you are professional detailer with a legitimate detailing business, do you have vehicle inspection sheet that shows a generic picture of the type of vehicle that allows you to mark on it what areas of concern you see in your inspection AND a check-off list of detailing services you will provide and at what price and signed by the customer?? Contracts of this type are almost a necessity to avoid ANY possible service performed disputes, damages that may have previously occurred (not by the detailer, that is) or litigation. With today`s photo-taking Smartphones, this too is a tool any detailer should employ when inspecting a vehicle and again, have the customer sign off on the images taken that this was the condition of the vehicle when delivered to the detailer.
Sometimes this will scare off potential problem customers who may be looking to scam a detailing business and say, "I am not pay you because you damaged my vehicle". Yes, this a CMA (Cover My "Arse") policy and business practice, but it just makes good common sense in this day of consumer litigation.

With todays internet and available personal background check providers, is it worth the money to subscribe to them and then check on the background of a potential new customer?? I know dental services do this and if they find that a new customer has "financial problems" (Like a poor credit score or bankruptcy), they will ask for the money up front before ANY services are performed. There is no such thing as "just put it on my bill or "send me the bill" anymore. I doubt that a detailing business could or would ask for a certain percentage of the estimate up front, but that, too, would depend on the scope and cost of the detailing services being provided.

Not a bad idea with the old condition report sheet. I’d be inclined to use it as a check sheet for staff to proof their work rather than a liability tool.

Glad we don’t have to deal with ```` like you mentioned in Australia on anything but a rare scale.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lonnie

There is one caveat that I see from these "old threads" on turning down jobs: If you are professional detailer with a legitimate detailing business, do you have vehicle inspection sheet that shows a generic picture of the type of vehicle that allows you to mark on it what areas of concern you see in your inspection AND a check-off list of detailing services you will provide and at what price and signed by the customer??...
With todays internet and available personal background check providers..

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I`d be surprised if any Pro didn`t do that stuff, and/but I think it`s great that you brought it up just in case somebody hadn`t thought of it. CYA indeed! Honest people might not think of the stuff that DIShonest people will come up with. Sheesh, you Pros have it tough enough already...