Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24
  1. #1
    99scs2cool
    Guest
    Santa brought me Waxmaster ROBP. This is my first. I`ve always done the`ol "elbow grease " method for many many moons.



    What is the lowest temp one can use and any special dos and donts using the ROBP. I`ve heard that ROBPs are relatively safe, especially the consumer ones.



    We are suppsed to get >60 today here in NC so, I`d like to get a quick coat of Mequiars Gold class on. I usualy polish/wax in the spring.



    All help appreciated

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,534
    Post Thanks / Like
    You`ll be fine with temps above 60. Each product reacts a little differently to temps so its best to use common sense when applying waxes and polishes. If you think its too cold to do the work, it probably is. I suggest speding some time reading older posts, occasionally there is some talk about minmum temps with certain products.



    Make sure the bonnet is new or prefectly clean. You might need to go thru two bonnets depending on the condition of your paint. Experiment with hand pressure on various parts of the car; don`t worry, you`re not going to damage the paint with an orbital. There might be panels that need more than one applications - another good experiment.



    Just remember thin and even costs, watch out for sharp edges and objects, there will be plenty of areas that only hand waxing will work.



    What are you removing the wax with?

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    659
    Post Thanks / Like
    Take a look around the archives and do some searching, learn as much as you can.
    Andre`

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like

    Need help with black Corvette

    Hi TID members. About a week ago or so I posted a thread on AG about a black Corvette that I would be doing a paint correction on. Here`s the link to the thread so that you can see what I started with.

    This is the first newer Corvette that I have worked on and I am having a bit of trouble getting the desired results. I thought before getting real aggressive with this thing maybe I should appeal to the more Corvette experienced members here for some thoughts and suggestions.

    This car is for a new client who will be feeding me a steady supply of work depending on the outcome of this project. He and I are both willing to take the time to get the results on this project without rushing things. He is a very understanding guy as far as that goes.

    A little history on the car.

    First let me correct the title of my original thread and say that I misunderstood what the client was saying when he said "basically it is set up like a Lingenfelter as far as the performance mods are concerned" so this is not a "Ling" as the posters on my original thread already stated. The client bought this car with under 20,000 miles on it and it was already in this rough condition when the purchase was made. Given the low miles on the car and the condition of it when he purchased the car, that leads me to believe that this car hasn`t had a paint correction done to it before. I do not have a paint thickness gauge.

    My concerns and questions.

    This is certainly the hardest paint that I have ever worked with. I have read the warnings about this but didn`t realize that it would be this hard. I have read some threads where the poster had wet sanded or damp sanded these cars before the buffing was done and I want to avoid having to do this. I also wanted to avoid using a wool pad and a real aggressive compound to insure that I would not be leaving any buffer trails behind but now I am thinking that the wool pad can not be avoided.

    In the lighting that I had it had appeared that I was getting the desired results when I did my test section so I ran with it.

    What I have already done.

    Wash, IPA wipedown, Clay,

    Makita rotary, Menzerna Power Gloss, orange LC CCS 5.5 pad, 3 section passes @ speed setting 3.5 (about 2000 PRM) I did this twice on all panels so actually 6 section passes total.

    Makita rotary, Optimum Polish 2, white 6 inch Edge 2K finishing pad, 3 section passes @ speed setting 3.5 (about 2000 RPM)

    Flex 3401, Optimum finish polish, Red LC VC finising pad, 3 section passes @ speed setting 6 (full speed)

    While there has been a significant improvement in the finish we are still left with a lot of scratches that have not been removed. I am not talking about RIDS but overall scratches. I know that Power Gloss is an aggressive diminishing abrasive compound but I really thought it would have had more effect than what it did.

    I am getting back to this car on Sunday to work out the required process to achieve the desired results. I have Menz. PG, Megs 105 and some sand in a bottle type of heavy compound equivalent to 3M super duty rubbing compound. I have wool pads, yellow foam cutting pads, orange light cutting pads. I am thinking now that I should hit it with the heavy compound and a wool pad then follow that with orange light cutting pad and M-105 then finish out with the Optimum Polish 2 on a Polishing pad.

    Is this just normal on these Corvettes that it should take so much to get the desired results? I can`t imagine trying to correct this paint with just a PC.

    OK, so you more experienced Corvette paint correctors let me have your thoughts, oppinions or suggestions if you will. Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and for any suggestions that you might offer. TD

  5. #5
    Moderator 3
    Guest
    Sorry no links to other sites here. Please copy and paste the entire thread here and someone will help you.

    EDIT: I copied the url`s from the pics over for you.









  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,402
    Post Thanks / Like
    Dave, Do you have any current pics of the finish so we can see how far you have got? Some 50/50 shots would help.

    Are you filmier with the KBM at all? Surbuf pads?

    Do you have access to the car right now? If not when will you see the car next?
    Bryan Burnworth - Atlanta Car Detailing - Peachstate Detail LLC

    Selected as one of the top nine detailers in the US by Autoweek

    Published in the 356 Registry

    The only exclusive Opti-Coat Pro specialist in Atlanta

    All PPF work done by the best in Atlanta Derek Johnson of Atlanta Protective Films

    Follow Peachstate Detail LLC on Facebook here.

  7. #7
    Just a regular guy Todd@RUPES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Oviedo/Stuart Florida
    Posts
    15,278
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuscarora Dave View Post
    Hi TID members. About a week ago or so I posted a thread on AG about a black Corvette that I would be doing a paint correction on. Here`s the link to the thread so that you can see what I started with.

    This is the first newer Corvette that I have worked on and I am having a bit of trouble getting the desired results. I thought before getting real aggressive with this thing maybe I should appeal to the more Corvette experienced members here for some thoughts and suggestions.

    This car is for a new client who will be feeding me a steady supply of work depending on the outcome of this project. He and I are both willing to take the time to get the results on this project without rushing things. He is a very understanding guy as far as that goes.
    As the saying goes, "There is no replacement for experience," but on the flip-side, how are you supposed to get the experience if you don`t try? It sounds like the client is a very understanding guy and this is a great car for you to really hone in your correction skills on truly hammered hard paint. I will do my best to help.


    A little history on the car.

    First let me correct the title of my original thread and say that I misunderstood what the client was saying when he said "basically it is set up like a Lingenfelter as far as the performance mods are concerned" so this is not a "Ling" as the posters on my original thread already stated. The client bought this car with under 20,000 miles on it and it was already in this rough condition when the purchase was made. Given the low miles on the car and the condition of it when he purchased the car, that leads me to believe that this car hasn`t had a paint correction done to it before. I do not have a paint thickness gauge.
    People were certainly doing paint correction before paint thickness gauges became common they are not a necessity, but you are `shooting in the dark` with out one.

    So while I am not recommending that you don`t correct the paint, I would caution against chasing every scratch and defect in trying to create a perfect finish. A true professional (IMO) knows the limitations of what he can safely accomplish. By chasing every visible defect known with out the tools and experience necessary to know when to back off you run the risk of overly thinning the clear coat or worse, striking through it.

    Removing too much of the clear (even if you don`t burn through it) can lead to medium and long term problems and it is your job to know when to say when.

    Also it is almost impossible to know whether or not the car has been polished (and to what degree) in the past. Many cars are polished to some degree at the factory, most car dealers while grind through paint with out care, etc. Look for any compound residue that has splattered in weird areas, holograms in the paint, burnt edges, etc. (Note the car appears to have severe holograms behind the red slashes in the pic posted above) I wouldn`t risk my reputation on a guess, I would caution you against it as well. (In the end it is going to be far worse to burn through then not get every possible defect).


    My concerns and questions.

    This is certainly the hardest paint that I have ever worked with. I have read the warnings about this but didn`t realize that it would be this hard. I have read some threads where the poster had wet sanded or damp sanded these cars before the buffing was done and I want to avoid having to do this. I also wanted to avoid using a wool pad and a real aggressive compound to insure that I would not be leaving any buffer trails behind but now I am thinking that the wool pad can not be avoided.


    Aggressive is relative to what you are working on. If you are concerned about the marks that you may leave behind from a wool pad/rotary then I would absolutely recommend that you do not sand the car. It takes experience and skill to create a perfect finish and trying to run before you can walk can lead to a lot of frustration and disastrous results.

    I think your approach to this point has been spot on. You did get aggressive with your application (compound x2) but you haven`t over stepped your comfort zone. Thus you have improved the finish with out comprimising it, and that is a hallmark of a professional. The true pro isn`t the one who makes paint look perfect, it is the one who maintains the integrity of the automobile and preserves the finish.

    In the lighting that I had it had appeared that I was getting the desired results when I did my test section so I ran with it.

    What I have already done.

    Wash, IPA wipedown, Clay,

    Makita rotary, Menzerna Power Gloss, orange LC CCS 5.5 pad, 3 section passes @ speed setting 3.5 (about 2000 PRM) I did this twice on all panels so actually 6 section passes total.

    Makita rotary, Optimum Polish 2, white 6 inch Edge 2K finishing pad, 3 section passes @ speed setting 3.5 (about 2000 RPM)

    Flex 3401, Optimum finish polish, Red LC VC finising pad, 3 section passes @ speed setting 6 (full speed)

    While there has been a significant improvement in the finish we are still left with a lot of scratches that have not been removed. I am not talking about RIDS but overall scratches. I know that Power Gloss is an aggressive diminishing abrasive compound but I really thought it would have had more effect than what it did.
    How comfortable are you getting more aggressive on this finish? Is the risk worth the reward? I am sorry I keep repeating my point, it is only that at the end of the day it is you, your client, and his car, and you are ultimately responsible for all three. I would be easy for me to tell you to get more aggressive but I don`t have to face your client if you screw up.

    I am getting back to this car on Sunday to work out the required process to achieve the desired results. I have Menz. PG, Megs 105 and some sand in a bottle type of heavy compound equivalent to 3M super duty rubbing compound. I have wool pads, yellow foam cutting pads, orange light cutting pads. I am thinking now that I should hit it with the heavy compound and a wool pad then follow that with orange light cutting pad and M-105 then finish out with the Optimum Polish 2 on a Polishing pad.
    It is hard to prescribe a process because processes because individual technique is such a huge equation in the factor. What works for you may not work for me and vice-a-versa.

    If you are truly not happy with the results of your process and feel you want to try to improve the finish that I feel it will be better to cover some basic points that will help you dial in the best process for your technique.

    -Start with the least aggressive method necessary- Since you have already attempted a fairly aggressive technique, we know that we are going to need something more aggressive.

    -Do a test section and inspect the results of that test section after each process-

    So set up your test section, and dial in the least aggressive method you need to remove the defects. The goal is to remove all of the defects you plan on removing in this stage, don`t count on the follow up stages to remove anything left behind.

    Once you have achieved the desired amount of defect removal wipe the surface with alcohol and inspect in any form of light available (if it means pulling it out in the sun then do so.)

    Again start with the least aggressive method necessary to remove the swirling caused by the more aggressive method. Every paint responds differently to a compound and wool pad, but the goal is to remove the marks completely and hopefully get the surface ready for final polishing. Some cars may need more then three stages, so starting with the least aggressive method and constantly inspecting the finish as you go is going to be your best bet.

    Wipe with alcohol and inspect the finish again. If it is ready for final polishing then proceed.

    You will now have dialed in a process then will work on the majority of the paint. The goal is always to use the least aggressive method to get the results you are after.


    Is this just normal on these Corvettes that it should take so much to get the desired results? I can`t imagine trying to correct this paint with just a PC.

    OK, so you more experienced Corvette paint correctors let me have your thoughts, oppinions or suggestions if you will. Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and for any suggestions that you might offer. TD
    Corvette`s (C5/C6) tend to have pretty hard paint although I wouldn`t say they are anywhere near the hardest paints I have ever corrected. Since there is no way to identify how deep the defects are or how much paint is on the surface I would strongly consider a conservative approach. I would explain to your client that the defects are very deep and that you don`t want to compromise his paint by making things perfect. The worst thing you can do is give him unrealistic expectations and damage the paint in attempt to meet those expectations.

    I hope I helped and best of luck!

    Todd

  8. #8
    imported_Flash Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,381
    Post Thanks / Like
    Well, Todd pretty much nailed it Dave. Not much I could add to that other then reiterate the importance of not going to far. More then likely you will be polishing this car out at least a couple times a year, so take it easy on the paint/clear. I have yet to find a car that is 100% flawless. I can always find at least one area thats not correct. Sometimes two :spy:


    Good luck and congrats on landing this client :partaaay2:

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    741
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hopefully Bill Luster, our personal Corvette Guru who uses a PC, will chime in as well.

    You have just been talking to some of the greatest detailers out there above already, so just take your time, dont rush it, dont get worried, etc., just get all the information you feel you need from experienced guys, follow the perfect outline/advice from Todd Helme above, and see what you get.

    Only thing I would add is to absolutely have the best possible light to see what you are doing at all times, so you minimize the chance of getting into trouble.

    I believe that a coating thickness gauge that measures fiberglass is going to cost more than the ones that measure just steel and aluminum, so you may have to consider this at some point later down the road too, if you keep getting Covettes, etc..

    Good luck, you will be ok with this. Take your time.

    Dan F

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderator 3 View Post
    Sorry no links to other sites here. Please copy and paste the entire thread here and someone will help you.

    EDIT: I copied the url`s from the pics over for you.








    Sorry about the link, thanks for pasting the pics in for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmblack3 View Post
    Dave, Do you have any current pics of the finish so we can see how far you have got? Some 50/50 shots would help.

    Are you filmier with the KBM at all? Surbuf pads?

    Do you have access to the car right now? If not when will you see the car next?
    I will post a few pics of how the paint looks now. Just have to load them in here. I use the KBM as far as pad priming goes. I have no Surbuf pads though. Thanks for your reply, I will be back at the car for just a few hours tomorrow to figure something out then will get back to work on it Tuesday morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by th0001 View Post
    As the saying goes, "There is no replacement for experience," but on the flip-side, how are you supposed to get the experience if you don`t try? It sounds like the client is a very understanding guy and this is a great car for you to really hone in your correction skills on truly hammered hard paint. I will do my best to help.




    People were certainly doing paint correction before paint thickness gauges became common they are not a necessity, but you are `shooting in the dark` with out one.

    So while I am not recommending that you don`t correct the paint, I would caution against chasing every scratch and defect in trying to create a perfect finish. A true professional (IMO) knows the limitations of what he can safely accomplish. By chasing every visible defect known with out the tools and experience necessary to know when to back off you run the risk of overly thinning the clear coat or worse, striking through it.

    Removing too much of the clear (even if you don`t burn through it) can lead to medium and long term problems and it is your job to know when to say when.

    Also it is almost impossible to know whether or not the car has been polished (and to what degree) in the past. Many cars are polished to some degree at the factory, most car dealers while grind through paint with out care, etc. Look for any compound residue that has splattered in weird areas, holograms in the paint, burnt edges, etc. (Note the car appears to have severe holograms behind the red slashes in the pic posted above) I wouldn`t risk my reputation on a guess, I would caution you against it as well. (In the end it is going to be far worse to burn through then not get every possible defect).




    Aggressive is relative to what you are working on. If you are concerned about the marks that you may leave behind from a wool pad/rotary then I would absolutely recommend that you do not sand the car. It takes experience and skill to create a perfect finish and trying to run before you can walk can lead to a lot of frustration and disastrous results.

    I think your approach to this point has been spot on. You did get aggressive with your application (compound x2) but you haven`t over stepped your comfort zone. Thus you have improved the finish with out comprimising it, and that is a hallmark of a professional. The true pro isn`t the one who makes paint look perfect, it is the one who maintains the integrity of the automobile and preserves the finish. [/FONT][/COLOR]


    How comfortable are you getting more aggressive on this finish? Is the risk worth the reward? I am sorry I keep repeating my point, it is only that at the end of the day it is you, your client, and his car, and you are ultimately responsible for all three. I would be easy for me to tell you to get more aggressive but I don`t have to face your client if you screw up.



    It is hard to prescribe a process because processes because individual technique is such a huge equation in the factor. What works for you may not work for me and vice-a-versa.

    If you are truly not happy with the results of your process and feel you want to try to improve the finish that I feel it will be better to cover some basic points that will help you dial in the best process for your technique.

    -Start with the least aggressive method necessary- Since you have already attempted a fairly aggressive technique, we know that we are going to need something more aggressive.

    -Do a test section and inspect the results of that test section after each process-

    So set up your test section, and dial in the least aggressive method you need to remove the defects. The goal is to remove all of the defects you plan on removing in this stage, don`t count on the follow up stages to remove anything left behind.

    Once you have achieved the desired amount of defect removal wipe the surface with alcohol and inspect in any form of light available (if it means pulling it out in the sun then do so.)

    Again start with the least aggressive method necessary to remove the swirling caused by the more aggressive method. Every paint responds differently to a compound and wool pad, but the goal is to remove the marks completely and hopefully get the surface ready for final polishing. Some cars may need more then three stages, so starting with the least aggressive method and constantly inspecting the finish as you go is going to be your best bet.

    Wipe with alcohol and inspect the finish again. If it is ready for final polishing then proceed.

    You will now have dialed in a process then will work on the majority of the paint. The goal is always to use the least aggressive method to get the results you are after.




    Corvette`s (C5/C6) tend to have pretty hard paint although I wouldn`t say they are anywhere near the hardest paints I have ever corrected. Since there is no way to identify how deep the defects are or how much paint is on the surface I would strongly consider a conservative approach. I would explain to your client that the defects are very deep and that you don`t want to compromise his paint by making things perfect. The worst thing you can do is give him unrealistic expectations and damage the paint in attempt to meet those expectations.

    I hope I helped and best of luck!

    Todd
    What a great response!! Thanks so much for taking the time to write it. The nice thing is that I have nearly 100 full correction jobs under my belt now but I am just not used to working on paint near as hard as this. You make a lot of great points. I will proceed with caution and care. I have discussed with the client the facts and dangers of removing too much clear. Tomorrow I am going to do a new test section to see how things turn out. My arm speed is generally about 3 inches per second while applying rather light pressure so I really don`t think that I have removed very much clear to this point. Faring on the side of caution as I like to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Well, Todd pretty much nailed it Dave. Not much I could add to that other then reiterate the importance of not going to far. More then likely you will be polishing this car out at least a couple times a year, so take it easy on the paint/clear. I have yet to find a car that is 100% flawless. I can always find at least one area thats not correct. Sometimes two :spy:


    Good luck and congrats on landing this client :partaaay2:
    Thanks Flash!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    Hopefully Bill Luster, our personal Corvette Guru who uses a PC, will chime in as well.

    You have just been talking to some of the greatest detailers out there above already, so just take your time, dont rush it, dont get worried, etc., just get all the information you feel you need from experienced guys, follow the perfect outline/advice from Todd Helme above, and see what you get.

    Only thing I would add is to absolutely have the best possible light to see what you are doing at all times, so you minimize the chance of getting into trouble.

    I believe that a coating thickness gauge that measures fiberglass is going to cost more than the ones that measure just steel and aluminum, so you may have to consider this at some point later down the road too, if you keep getting Covettes, etc..

    Good luck, you will be ok with this. Take your time.

    Dan F
    Thanks Dan, I am thinking maybe $700 should get me a good PTG. I don`t mind making the investment when I can get that much together. Good thing is that Jack my dog is the only mouth that I have to feed besides my own so this kind of investment isn`t too tough.

  11. #11
    Just a regular guy Todd@RUPES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Oviedo/Stuart Florida
    Posts
    15,278
    Post Thanks / Like
    No problem Dave, I am glad that helped out! I look forward to seeing the final results.

    Check this thread for tips using M105 with wool and a rotary. Using the methods in the thread you can get great cut while still leaving a decent finish.

    AFIK, there are two main types of paint gauges used by detailers.

    Magnetic: Depending on the quality of the machine they can measure either ferrous or non-ferrous metals fairly accurately. These are the type of machines that are most commonly used and can only measure the total coating thickness (from body panel to outer layer of paint).

    Ultrasonic: These are more expensive and are used to measure the coating thickness on plastic and composite body panels (anything not metal). Most of these gauges can measure individual layers fairly accurately.

    A magnetic PTG will not measure paint on a corvette and an ultrasonic gauge won`t measure paint on a Ferrari (aluminum). To my knowledge there are no gauges that currently do both, although it has been quite a while since I looked into it.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like
    OK here`s where we were before I started polishing.




    And here where we are at after all the polishing that I listed in my initial post in this thread.


  13. #13
    bmw5541's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    3,124
    Post Thanks / Like
    That is quite a noticible difference Dave.

    If you need more cut and want to use the DA, I would definitely use the Surbuf pads and 105. This is a great combination that yealds great results.

    Good luck.
    Barry Schultz
    Detailed Elegance

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    3,839
    Post Thanks / Like
    I`ve done many of these and I`ve had the best luck on late model rock-hard Corvette clearcoat, with Surbuf pads/105 (with Griot`s DA) for the initial cut. Then I follow up with M205 on a white pad to remove the hazing created by the Surbuf.

    Looks like you have a good start!

    Bill Luster
    Specializing in Detailing Corvettes....:thumbup:

    You`ve been given one life.
    Think about it.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    107
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Luster View Post
    I`ve done many of these and I`ve had the best luck on late model rock-hard Corvette clearcoat, with Surbuf pads/105 (with Griot`s DA) for the initial cut. Then I follow up with M205 on a white pad to remove the hazing created by the Surbuf.

    Looks like you have a good start!

    Thanks Bill, how many hours does it take you using a DA and the Surbuf pads?

 

 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 99 Black Corvette
    By JWMotoring in forum The Detailers Showcase
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-30-2011, 02:00 PM
  2. 2007 Corvette Z06 - Black on Black
    By stilez in forum Click & Brag -The Detailers Showcase
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 05-08-2007, 02:31 PM
  3. 78 Corvette...Black of course!
    By Joshua312 in forum Click & Brag -The Detailers Showcase
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 08-26-2006, 06:08 PM
  4. Black C5 Corvette
    By ZaneO in forum The Detailers Showcase
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-09-2006, 01:22 PM
  5. Black C5 Corvette
    By ZaneO in forum Click & Brag -The Detailers Showcase
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-08-2006, 08:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •