Hydro Tech Crimson pad

**gmck** · 09-26-2010, 06:27 AM

Well I gave the crimson a try this morning. The behavior of the pad was not what I expected.

The pad didn`t seem to want to spin freely, very sticky as compared to using a Green or a Black pad. I figured that because these pads don`t absorb that much, that I wouldn`t need a lot of of 85rd, so I started with 4 small drops. Varied the amount some as I tried it out, but just couldn`t seem to come up with the right combination.

The finish I was getting was very good, better than say a green pad, but I feel as though I`ve not got the right technique with this pad. If I overworked an area it would get real sticky and leave smudges of polish, plus beads/balls of polish flying off. Still wiped off easily enough, but I`d reckon it would get painful doing the whole car like this. Reverted back to a green pad which behaved normally just to finish this job, so I`d like to ask for your tips on using the crimson pad.

Any special requirements, such as priming the pad or shorter working time?? Maybe this particular paint doesn`t suit (Astra 2003). Actually I was liking this paint for this is the first time I`ve ever used M105 where it just behaved perfectly. My previous efforts with M105 were a real pain, but this paint just loved M105.

**CEE DOG** · 09-26-2010, 07:51 AM

Are you cleaning your pad often?

Not sure about the paint but with 85RD I dont prime the pad with anything more then a spritz of pad conditioner. Then I put a circle of 85 around the near edge of the pad. Then quickly spread it on the section on speed 2-3. Then I crank up the speed and complete that section. (now that the pad is broken in) I only use a few dabs and repeat. After every other (and sometimes every) section I clean the pad.

**imported_Bunky** · 09-26-2010, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by CEE DOG

After every other (and sometimes every) section I clean the pad.

How do you clean your pads? Microfiber, brush?

**imported_richy** · 09-26-2010, 10:02 AM

Is that with a DA or rotary?

**gmck** · 09-26-2010, 04:47 PM

Seems I was doing it similar to you cee dog- I was using 4.5-5.0 speed though. Cleaning the pad after every other section or when need with a brush. Using a DA.

I`ll give it another try on different paint.

**CEE DOG** · 09-26-2010, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Bunky

How do you clean your pads? Microfiber, brush?

Using 3401
Edge brush for cleaning pads.

I`m going to get some terry towels to try cleaning that way and see if I like that more... Since the HT pads don`t love the brush. It`s a little rough on them all though as I`ve been gentler it seems to be better.

**imported_Bunky** · 09-26-2010, 06:45 PM

I wipe my pads with a terry cloth towel.

**gmck** · 09-29-2010, 02:55 PM

Ceedog:

I tried the crimson again today on my BMW. Completely different to what I experienced on the Astra the other day, no problems at all and the finish was really good. I?m a little intrigued about the speed you use though (2-3). Is that because you are using a flex? I?m using a DAS-6. Is it true that with a flex the speed settings to use are lower than with conventional DAs?

Are you trying to cut with 85RD or just burnish/jeweling. In other words how much pressure do you use to get the finish you are after?

Since I?m coming down from M205, my thoughts are that I?m still looking to finely cut/level the paint surface and therefore I?m using moderate pressure to start with as the 85RD breaks down and then I lighten right off to just the weight of the machine.

Re cleaning pads ? I haven?t had a problem cleaning them with a brush (3M). I don?t dig into the pad, just run across it after every section or every other section at low speed. In general, I don?t like using MFs because I feel you are just pushing the paint residue back into the pad especially when using something like M105. I don?t think that is really cleaning the pad. If the pad doesn?t appear to be cleaning up I?m more inclined to swap to a clean pad, especially with M105.

Have you ever tried the green pads before going to the black?

This afternoon I did another Astra (?03 instead of ?00) and the crimson pad worked just like it did on the BMW. I can?t figure that one out, same model vehicle. Same type of paint, the only difference was the first one was silver, the second one black, yet way different results. May be these pads need to worked some when they are brand new.

Graham

**CEE DOG** · 09-29-2010, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by gmck

Ceedog:

I tried the crimson again today on my BMW. Completely different to what I experienced on the Astra the other day, no problems at all and the finish was really good. I?m a little intrigued about the speed you use though (2-3). Is that because you are using a flex? I?m using a DAS-6. Is it true that with a flex the speed settings to use are lower than with conventional DAs?

Are you trying to cut with 85RD or just burnish/jeweling. In other words how much pressure do you use to get the finish you are after?

Graham, I`m sorry for the confusion I caused. I should have checked my post. I must have deleted a sentence. What it should have said is I spread the 85RD across the section quickly on speed 2-3. Then I crank up the speed and polish.....

Sometimes I`ll use the flat LC white pad with it but usually I am trying to "jewel" or finish the paint with the grey or crimson pad.

I`ll go fix my earlier post so it`s not confusing.

Originally Posted by gmck

Ceedog:
Since I?m coming down from M205, my thoughts are that I?m still looking to finely cut/level the paint surface and therefore I?m using moderate pressure to start with as the 85RD breaks down and then I lighten right off to just the weight of the machine.
Graham

That sounds good to me.
Once I have spread the product real quick I move my dial up to speed 5 or 6 and polish with some pressure at first. After a few passes I slowly start to let up a little until (like you) my last couple passes are pretty much just the weight of the machine.

Originally Posted by gmck

Ceedog:

Re cleaning pads ? I haven?t had a problem cleaning them with a brush (3M). I don?t dig into the pad, just run across it after every section or every other section at low speed. In general, I don?t like using MFs because I feel you are just pushing the paint residue back into the pad especially when using something like M105. I don?t think that is really cleaning the pad. If the pad doesn?t appear to be cleaning up I?m more inclined to swap to a clean pad, especially with M105.

I use the edge brush after every other section (at the very least) I make sure to run my 3401 on a low speed for this. I just pull my trigger off and on. I haven`t had any trouble getting the pad to not appear cleaned up after brushing but I switch pads after awhile. I figure there are particles of clearcoat in there whether I see buildup or not.

Originally Posted by gmck

Ceedog:
Have you ever tried the green pads before going to the black?

I`ve never tried the green pads or the orange pads. As far as LC flat pads I use: white, grey, and blue.
I went straight to the HT pads: Cyan and Tangerine (Now Crimson as well).

Originally Posted by gmck

Ceedog:
This afternoon I did another Astra (?03 instead of ?00) and the crimson pad worked just like it did on the BMW. I can?t figure that one out, same model vehicle. Same type of paint, the only difference was the first one was silver, the second one black, yet way different results. May be these pads need to worked some when they are brand new.
Graham

It may still be completely different paint. From what I have researched it seems different colors can use different "compounds" to create that color paint.
I`ve also read that in some instances two cars the same exact car, color and year may be painted at a different location. Different locations or even different dates of paint may vary.

**gmck** · 09-30-2010, 06:30 AM

Hi Ceedog,

Ok, I see if a sentence fell off your post then your original statement now makes sense. We seem to be in agreement with the technique then.

I figure there are particles of clearcoat in there whether I see buildup or not.

Yes I agree with you there. I do think the MF cleaning technique is more likely to leave those particles behind in the pad. Compressed air would be great, but you don?t always have it available, so to me a brush is essential ? either that all a lot of pads.

I?m surprised that you don?t or haven?t used LC Orange pads, I thought they were virtually essential for M105. Anyway I placed another order which included the Cyan and the Tangerine, so I try your way when the order arrives. The last order I received contained the ?Constant Pressure? Orange pads. I really like them with M105. My first efforts with M105 were a real disaster, not that I?m blaming the standard Orange pads. It was just my luck I picked on a vehicle whose paint just didn?t suit M105. Of course that just goes to show that a particular product like M105 is not always the right choice for every vehicle. Which just proves that doing a test section on every vehicle is essential and that you need more than one make of compounds/polishes etc on the shelf. When M105 won?t cut it (excuse the pun), then probably Menzerna will or vice versa.

You are probably right about paint colours making a difference, but I?m keen to have another go at that silver Astra, because the crimson was so well behaved on the black Astra.

These Astras must have been made for M105, I can?t believe how good M105 is on these two vehicles. It is like magic, just cuts in seconds, doesn?t dust and wipes clean easily and the finish is bloody unbelievable.

I?m going to spend a little more time on this black one with the crimson pad as spending time trying to jewel a silver coloured vehicle seems such a waste. Why do people buy cars with such boring colours? Then again I?ve probably just offended someone here.

I will get back to you after I test the Cyan and the Tangerine.

I purchased a rotary yesterday, so as soon as I get a decent backing plate for it I?m going to try jewelling with it and compare to the DA results. It was nearly 30 years ago that I last used a rotary and I?m not sure I still have the arm strength to hang on to one while doing vertical panels. The DA is bad enough, so I?m not really sure how long I?ll last with it. But back in those days, the rotary was king (DAs didn?t exist) for jewelling.

Graham

**CEE DOG** · 09-30-2010, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by gmck

Hi Ceedog,
I?m surprised that you don?t or haven?t used LC Orange pads, I thought they were virtually essential for M105. Anyway I placed another order which included the Cyan and the Tangerine, so I try your way when the order arrives.
Graham

Graham, I think you`ll be very happy with the HT pads. Let me know what you think of the Cyan and M105. Of course you`ll want to step to something lighter afterwards.

**gmck** · 10-22-2010, 03:38 AM

Cee Dog,

I?ve been doing a bit of experimenting with the Crimson pad, so I thought you?d like to know the results. You may recall that I preferred to use 85RD with a green pad rather than the recommended black pad. I was always looking for more cut and the black pad just doesn?t give it, so at the time the green pad was a reasonable compromise.

Anyway I?ve now revised that procedure and now use the Crimson pad, but in a much more aggressive manner.

Here?s what I?m now doing as a generic procedure, obviously it can change slightly depending on the paint. Let?s assume that you have finished your paint correction using M105/M205, so basically you have a very good surface, free of any defects. Some would be happy with this and then go directly to their favorite sealant/wax and be done with it.

What I?m proposing takes the finish to another level, which is where 85RD really shines. So start with 85RD on the Crimson pad. Because I always want cut from 85RD at this stage to further level the paint, the Crimson pad is ideal because I can lean on it. Now the Crimson pad doesn?t provide any cut, but obviously 85RD does. The Crimson pad is very firm though as compared to a green or black pad. Obviously you can apply a lot of pressure to this pad. This is where it gets a little controversial. In testing I still wasn?t getting it at 4.5-5, so I went up to 6 and very slow arm movement. Perfect, it now further levels the paint while producing fantastic gloss.

When you?ve done that step, it is time to reintroduce the black pad for another pass to improve the gloss even more ? note still at speed 6. The paint now really looks wet at this point ? no need for BFWD if we are just talking the wet look, but obviously you will finish with your favorite sealant.

There is one further step (yes this does take a lot of time). After you?ve done your final IPA wipe down just before you go to BFWD, there is one further step. I got this tip from Todd Cooperider from DetailedImage or for further reference his own website EsotericDetail.com . Todd recommends Chemical Guy?s Ez Cr?me Glaze on a blue pad as a cleaner/bonding agent for BFWD. You can read up further on his recommendation at DetailedImage. There are some great articles there.

If you are interested, give this technique a shot ? it should knock your socks off.

Graham

**imported_Auto Concierge** · 10-22-2010, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by gmck

Cee Dog,

I?ve been doing a bit of experimenting with the Crimson pad, so I thought you?d like to know the results. You may recall that I preferred to use 85RD with a green pad rather than the recommended black pad. I was always looking for more cut and the black pad just doesn?t give it, so at the time the green pad was a reasonable compromise.

Anyway I?ve now revised that procedure and now use the Crimson pad, but in a much more aggressive manner.

Here?s what I?m now doing as a generic procedure, obviously it can change slightly depending on the paint. Let?s assume that you have finished your paint correction using M105/M205, so basically you have a very good surface, free of any defects. Some would be happy with this and then go directly to their favorite sealant/wax and be done with it.

What I?m proposing takes the finish to another level, which is where 85RD really shines. So start with 85RD on the Crimson pad. Because I always want cut from 85RD at this stage to further level the paint, the Crimson pad is ideal because I can lean on it. Now the Crimson pad doesn?t provide any cut, but obviously 85RD does. The Crimson pad is very firm though as compared to a green or black pad. Obviously you can apply a lot of pressure to this pad. This is where it gets a little controversial. In testing I still wasn?t getting it at 4.5-5, so I went up to 6 and very slow arm movement. Perfect, it now further levels the paint while producing fantastic gloss.

When you?ve done that step, it is time to reintroduce the black pad for another pass to improve the gloss even more ? note still at speed 6. The paint now really looks wet at this point ? no need for BFWD if we are just talking the wet look, but obviously you will finish with your favorite sealant.

There is one further step (yes this does take a lot of time). After you?ve done your final IPA wipe down just before you go to BFWD, there is one further step. I got this tip from Todd Cooperider from DetailedImage or for further reference his own website EsotericDetail.com . Todd recommends Chemical Guy?s Ez Cr?me Glaze on a blue pad as a cleaner/bonding agent for BFWD. You can read up further on his recommendation at DetailedImage. There are some great articles there.

If you are interested, give this technique a shot ? it should knock your socks off.

Graham

Wonder where Todd/C picked up that nugget of info...................:biggrin:

**gmck** · 10-22-2010, 03:11 PM

Well he did give someone credit for it, but I didn`t copy that into my post. If that was you, then thank you too, because I think it is a very worthwhile step I`ll retain for future work. I guess it is only going to add about 30 mins in total, so from where I stand that looks well worth the extra work.

Do you have any other Chemical Guy gems?