Are M101/M105/M205 Pad Dependent?

**jbnery6465** · 07-10-2013, 12:05 PM

I currently have M105/M205 and use a PC7424 to do my paint correction. I`m looking into replacing the M105 with the newer M101 since it has less dusting and is formulated for foam pads.

I heard that any SMAT or nano-abrassive formulated polish will cut differently based on the pads that are used, thus eliminating the potential of needing 2 different polishes for a 2-stage correction. I`d like to know if I can use the same polish with different pads and have the results of the `typical` 2-stage correction.

My current process:
- M105 on LC Orange
- M205 on LC White

Questions for those `in the know` or with experience:
1. Will M205 on LC Orange have the same results of M105 on Orange? (ie. on a med-heavily swirled paint)?
2. Since I know I want to get rid of my M105 (dusting and caking is PITA), will M101 on an LC Orange followed by M101 on LC White have the same results of the M105/M205 combo?
3. I`m also looking at the 3 HD polishing products. I`m assuming HD Cut is the same as M105/M101. Which would be the equivalent of M205, HD Uno or HD Polish?

**Lou Bunn** · 07-10-2013, 12:24 PM

Thanks to Mr. Helme and his excellant article on finishing with M105, I have become a big fan of Megs polishes. However, after using M101, 105 is just a step backwards IMHO, and I use to go with D300 for most details. M101 is essential IF - time is important, it will cut faster, cleaner and better. Plus the dusting is very little.
If the paint is in fairly good shape, D300, MF pads and a good air compressor will work fine. But, heavy oxidation, deep swirls, etc - bring out the 101 and orange pads!
The technique I found to work (again - Todd influenced) is to prime the pad first with a little Megs Final Inspection, work to polish in good, then clean the pad with compressed air and don`t wipe the panal, don`t add more polish, just hit it again for a couple passes and then wipe with MF towel. I have done a few older cars with that technique and it saved tons of time. Call it a "long" one step if you will.

I liked the D300 and MF pads but I`ve yet to get anywhere near the milage out of those pads as with orange foam and Megs - damn it, you make a fine polish but your MF pads suck the most! If I could only use 1 pad, it`d be a flat orange foam one.

**Stokdgs** · 07-10-2013, 02:12 PM

Meguiars 105 is still a great product, one just has to understand how it works and work with that result to make it do what you want..
It has always had this issue where it will heat up very quickly and stop working and fight you until you just stop and remove it and start over or what ever..

I found that if you keep it a little moist, it will keep working past the "Im dont with you" stage and then continue to cut and finish down really nicely. I only use a Rotary to correct and finish, so even at 1000 rpm, moisture to keep everything happy and working is important.

It is all I ever use by hand and a small cotton applicator to remove those dreaded fingernail marks in door handle cups on any car. It can be used to polish chrome and glass very successfully.

I bought Meguiars 101 years ago when it was primarily sold in Europe and had to get it from a great guy who imported it from people in Belgium. So yeah, it cost a whole lot more. It works great but I still pick up Meguiars 105 even for spot correcting with a 3" pad on that 1 tiny scratch that I can knock down, etc..., and still finish down nicely to perhaps need only 1 pass with its much more pleasant brother, Meguiars 205..

Dan F

**dooyaunastan** · 07-10-2013, 03:39 PM

1. M205 on an orange pad will offer much more cutting ability than M205 on a white pad, without a doubt. However, on softer paints the cut of the orange pad alone could leave hazing.

2. On harder paint systems, it just might, but the basic rule of thumb to follow is least aggressive method first and build your way up to what`s needed to accomplish the task at hand. You shouldn`t need to use M101 period as finishing step IMO, it seems counter-productive, you just used a more aggressive chemical to remove more paint than a finishing polish would, the ideal next step would be to use a finishing polish (like M205 or HD Polish) to restore and refine whatever gloss that M101 didn`t provide. Essentially, you COULD only need to use M101 on certain paints and that could be enough, given that it gave you the results you were seeking. I`ve only heard of this being the case a very limited number of times, and most times I`ve seen M101 used, a finishing polish was used afterwards.

3. I don`t think it`s safe to assume that they`re `the same`. Perform similar? Possibly. But they`re different products, SMAT technology or not. However on that other site, the 3D forums essentially (and other forums, here, AGO, etc), HD Polish is praised as their crown jewel, and would be the equivalent to M205.

M101 is an incredible compound, but I don`t think you`d ever need to use it in the means you`re suggesting. That`s exactly what M205, HD polish, etc are designed for.

**jbnery6465** · 07-10-2013, 03:52 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I should`ve clarified that I`m more of a hobbyist/enthusiast and not a professional doing this for a living, but I love using professional grade products over OTC products.

dooyaunastan - you may be right in that M205 or HD Polish may be all I need based on the condition of the cars that I have lined up. I`ll give M205 on LC Orange a try to see if that`ll get me the results I`m looking for as far as a medium cut, then of course depending on the results I may follow with M205 on LC White.

The issue is the majority our cars are BMW and Mercedes, so clear coats are hard on those. We have 2 Toyotas that most likely have soft clears, so maybe M205 would be perfect. Again it`ll come with experience.

**dooyaunastan** · 07-10-2013, 06:13 PM

Even with BMW`s and Mercedes, unless you`ve put a polisher with that specific combination (in this instance, M205 on white) on that specific car (not just the same make/model, I mean the very car itself) and yielded minimal results, I`d start with M205/HD Polish on white. From there I`d go M205/HD Polish on orange. Have you considered something with more cut but still good finishing ability like Meznerna`s PF2500? It`s DAT technology as opposed to SMAT like Meg`s, but it might be just what you need.

You want to start out doing a test spot, a 20"x20" or so sized section, and start with the least aggressive method first and work your way up to whatever will yield the results you`re looking for. Spare the compounding unless it`s all you`ve got left, and even then, M101 supposedly has more cut than M105. Todd Helme recently posted an incredibly in depth review of 1 step products on super soft paint, a wild card being Blackfire`s SRC compound, which had phenomenal finishing ability even on soft paints.

http://www.autopiaforums.com/forums/...-showdown.html

**Todd@RUPES** · 07-10-2013, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by jbnery6465

I heard that any SMAT or nano-abrassive formulated polish will cut differently based on the pads that are used, thus eliminating the potential of needing 2 different polishes for a 2-stage correction. I`d like to know if I can use the same polish with different pads and have the results of the `typical` 2-stage correction.

This could be said of any polish, although non-diminishing abrasive polishes can be `maniuplated` more depending on what pad they are used with. You can finish with MOST non-diminishing abrasive polishes provided you know what you are doing, but in most cases it is faster to use a dedicated finishing polish.

Questions for those `in the know` or with experience:
1. Will M205 on LC Orange have the same results of M105 on Orange? (ie. on a med-heavily swirled paint)?

M105 will cut way more and M205 will finish better (all things being equal)

2. Since I know I want to get rid of my M105 (dusting and caking is PITA), will M101 on an LC Orange followed by M101 on LC White have the same results of the M105/M205 combo?

No, but M101/M205 should...

3. I`m also looking at the 3 HD polishing products. I`m assuming HD Cut is the same as M105/M101. Which would be the equivalent of M205, HD Uno or HD Polish?

Not overly sure about HD Cut having the same rate of cut as M105, let alone M101, but I`m not overly experienced with HD`s lineup.

**ZL1Mark** · 07-10-2013, 10:22 PM

M205 isn`t the best choice for soft paint, but great for hard. There`s a lot of people out there that swear by HD Polish, but I don`t think it`s THAT great.

**TroyScherer** · 07-11-2013, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by SSizzlin`

M205 isn`t the best choice for soft paint, but great for hard. There`s a lot of people out there that swear by HD Polish, but I don`t think it`s THAT great.

Hmm.. What are you using Mark?

I find that M205 & HD polish can handle just about everything I need for final polishing. So much so I got rid of Menz 85rd that I would use on black. With that said I still need to try Sonax PF. I have a sample sitting here.

**ZL1Mark** · 07-11-2013, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by TroyScherer

Hmm.. What are you using Mark?

I find that M205 & HD polish can handle just about everything I need for final polishing. So much so I got rid of Menz 85rd that I would use on black. With that said I still need to try Sonax PF. I have a sample sitting here.

I mainly use M205 and HD polish as well. I find HD Polish finishes excellent, it`s just a bit difficult to remove if you don`t really work the product.