Surbuf or MF pads for Flex 3401?????

[CEE DOG]

The Flex DA is a GREAT machine, technology has come forth that really improves the ability of other DA`s.

With a foam pad, the Flex DA is still going remove more defects, quicker, than a Random Orbital DA. This makes the Flex DA amazing at as a one-step towel, since you can get more correction in less time. Also it is a great tool for beginners because it delivers relatively great results in little time.

Also, keep in mind that on forums you are reading opinions, there are still plenty of people who LOVE their Flex and are able to wring every last ounce of swirl-busting ability out of it. Arguing what machine is better is kind of like arguing about your favorite wax, politics, or religion.

All well said and valid points.

[Time 2 shine]

+1

[ca.detailchick]

I still love my flex DA. I favor it over my rotary when I am worried about the paint being thin or on older cars .

The one thing that still bothers me is my hands or wrists hurt the next day from it where as I never have that trouble with the rotary or my other megs DA.

I also dont like that its such a light weight machine .

[ZL1Mark]

I still love my flex DA. I favor it over my rotary when I am worried about the paint being thin or on older cars .

The one thing that still bothers me is my hands or wrists hurt the next day from it where as I never have that trouble with the rotary or my other megs DA.

I also dont like that its such a light weight machine .

You know how to use a rotary???? :p











I`m impressed!

[ZL1Mark]

With a foam pad, the Flex DA is still going remove more defects, quicker, than a Random Orbital DA. This makes the Flex DA amazing at as a one-step towel, since you can get more correction in less time. Also it is a great tool for beginners because it delivers relatively great results in little time.

I agree with you Mr. Helme.

On a side note, I can finish better with a RO better than the 3401. I`m not sure why, but I can only guess the forced rotation rotation has something to do with it? Should I be able to finish just as good with the 3401?

[ca.detailchick]

You know how to use a rotary???? :p








I`m impressed!

Honestly I dont use it that much . I prefer the Flex DA because of its safety .

But say I get a vehicle thats been off roading and gets deep bush scratched all down the sides the rotary coming out ,first choice.

[Time 2 shine]

I still love my flex DA. I favor it over my rotary when I am worried about the paint being thin or on older cars .

The one thing that still bothers me is my hands or wrists hurt the next day from it where as I never have that trouble with the rotary or my other megs DA.

I also dont like that its such a light weight machine .

I remember you posting something over in the TID forum saying that the flex was to light and felt like a toy.

[mikenap]

I agree with you Mr. Helme.

On a side note, I can finish better with a RO better than the 3401. I`m not sure why, but I can only guess the forced rotation rotation has something to do with it? Should I be able to finish just as good with the 3401?

I believe it`s been attributed to the difference in stroke length of the 3401. Sometimes it finishes well, other times it just refuses to work.

[ca.detailchick]

I remember you posting something over in the TID forum saying that the flex was to light and felt like a toy.

It still does feel like a toy!Thats proably why my hands hurt later......trying to push down on it to give it some weight like a real machine would have!

[Todd@RUPES]

I agree with you Mr. Helme.

On a side note, I can finish better with a RO better than the 3401. I`m not sure why, but I can only guess the forced rotation rotation has something to do with it? Should I be able to finish just as good with the 3401?

Why do you do this to me Mark!?! You ask me the difficult questions!

When we are talking about finishing the paint, what we are really talking about is how fine of a scratch pattern we are leaving and how does that scratch pattern reflect, diffuse, or refract light. While we would like to imagine that we are truly making paint 1000000% flawless, we are not. The abrasives, no matter how fine, are going to leave some impression in the paint. This is because the abrasives, in order to work, have to be harder, than the paint`s surface.

All abrasive mediums do diminish or reduce to some level when enough friction, over enough time, is applied. Even the sharper cutting edges of a `non-diminishing` abrasive are going to round slightly. This is beneficial as a round `polishing abrasive` is going to leave a significantly more even and shallow scratch pattern.

So your telling me when I polish paint to perfection, its not really perfect!!? Yes. The results of this are evident. Take the same paint which is has been polished swirl free (no visible marring to the naked eye) yet it is possible for one, which has been refined further, to have a crisper, more reflective finish. Take Menzerna PO106fa or PO85rd on softer paints. Both finish swirl free, but most would agree that PO85rd looks slightly better on softer paints. Why? Because it refines the microscopic scratch pattern even more, and ever so slightly more light is reflected more evenly. While we cannot see the difference (it would take a pretty strong microscope with proper lighting) there is one. Like a diamond, paint has different grades of flawlessness.

The reality is that once you top either surface with wax, you will not be able to tell the difference at all. This is because a wax or sealant is self-leveling, and will help fill in the super-microscopic scratch pattern and more light will reflect off of the leveled wax/sealant surface. This is also why it is hard to tell a difference in waxes/sealants when applied to an extremely refined finish. The theoretically more level wax surface really offers little benefit over the already super leveled paint surface.

If you goal is to create the highest gloss possible/polishable then your final polishing technique should focus on refining the paint to its highest level at the microscopic level.

In regards to the types of polishers, rotary, forced rotation, or random orbital: Each is moving the abrasive across the paint and each (with the right technique and product selection) is capable of reducing (most fine) abrasives to the point were it will create an extremely fine, high-gloss, swirl free finish. The main difference in finish quality is going to come from the pattern each machine pushes the abrasive across the paint.

With a rotary polish the abrasives will tend to attach to the pad, and move across the paint in a relatively linear fashion. With both a forced rotation DA and a Random Orbital DA, the abrasives will move across the paint in a curly-que fashion. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.

With a rotary the liner polishing motion tends to wear down one edge (the exposed edge of the attached abrasive) quickly and smoothly, which results in a quicker working time and a high gloss finish. However abrasive that have attached near the middle of the pad are not subjected to the same friction or speeds and can take a long time to break down. Also the abrasives on the outer edge can load with abraded paint residue quickly. For these two reasons, frequently cleaning your rotary polishing pad with a brush will do wonders for improving the finish quality of the paint.

With a forced-rotation DA, we are locked into an inverted curly-cue pattern that more resembles a W with tight loops at the top. This is beneficial because this jagged action is causing the abrasives to detach, roll around, and re-attach to the pad, which keeps them from loading with paint as well as causing a more complete reduction. However the sharp curve of the curly-cue is akin to digging your heel into ground and pivoting around sharply, and any bunching of the polishing pad in this area can cause an uneven scratch pattern. Again the key is keeping the pad clean from abraded residue and loaded with fresh abrasives.

With a random-orbital DA, you get the same advantages as the forced-rotation, with an added benefit. You can manipulate the pattern, from making tight curly-cues to making gentle, arching curly-cues by changing the pad`s rotational speed in relation to its orbital speed. My using a speed of 3 or 4, but maintaining constant (firm) pressure the pad will create a more gentle pattern on the paint that is more linear, and less likely to force the abrasives in to the paint. (Think wetsanding with a flat piece of paper vs. a crunched up one, which is going to create a better surface?). It is this ability to manipulate the machine`s pattern that gives it the ability to (potentially) create the highest levels of gloss.

However with any machine, experience is going to play a huge factor in the resulting finish.

[ca.detailchick]

Mark is making you work hard ,Todd!

I think he should start paying you or at least pay for your hotel room at Seema!

[ZL1Mark]

Mark is making you work hard ,Todd!

I think he should start paying you or at least pay for your hotel room at Seema!

LOL, I was thinking the same thing, maybe I need to pay Todd!

Phenomenal answer, Todd! I appreciate all your knowledge and hard work!