Looking for advice on paint correction.

[Buffingtech1]

It does haze even after using wool pad, and the grey pad still doesn’t seem to much different. As far as sanding I feel I’m sanding enough without sanding through the clear coat. The painters only use to coats dc5030 clear coat. The 9 inch pad does generate a good amount of heat but I don’t run it really high rpm’s just moderate to avoid over heating the panels and I make sure I don’t dry buff

[Setec Astronomy]

I just watched this video that basically runs through the 6-step process you are using: 3M™ Paint Finishing with Perfect-It™ EX Platform - YouTube

It`s a little hard for me to wrap my head around doing 6 steps in today`s world, when I came here 20 years ago polishing was a 3 step process, but it`s really been a 2-step once the SMAT abrasives arrived in 2007-ish. In the video you can see after the 5000 grit step there is hardly any noticeable sanding haze, which is what I would expect from my experience with 5000 grit. They skip the wool and go straight to the white foam compounding pad--have you tried that?

[Buffingtech1]

Yea and it didn’t do much different I’m starting to think the clear coat they use is always soft so no matter what I use it’s not gonna make a difference. I’ve tried what the 3m videos say to do and still get crap results. I’ve notice using the white pad also seems to dry out compound quicker than the wool and grabs the panel worse than the wool for some reason. But like I said I don’t know a bunch about buffing I was trained as a painter and I never had to buff anything when I was in my collision repair tech training

[Stokdgs]

I was trained as a Painter and part of the training WAS how to compound correctly using only a Rotary.
Learned how to use the machine pad/s and product/s to always come out with a perfectly clear, glossy, finish..

I cannot understand how they did not, or someone like a real Painter did not show you how to do this..
.
Certainly, Collision Repair Tech training will Never show you how to prime the paint, after getting all the deep scratches left by all the body guys I ever worked with..

From what little I know about your processes using the Rotary, or actually, any machine, etc., I know this - you have to keep the pad, product, and panel, moist enough, so that the product does not dry out too soon..If it Does dry too soon, then you end up with a mess that means - start over -...

You mention only 1 pad of whatever you have - if this is really All the pads you have, then that is another problem that needs to be addressed.. Want to go there?

In my experiences as both the Painter, then the finisher of the new paint, then the blend that went wherever, and then the rest of that/those/panels, so that ALL the panels affected looked the same, I had to use the Rotary, at a low speed, like around 800+ to get the pad, product, and panel well acquainted with what was about to happen, and then, keep a good eye on it, and if needed, because it started to dry too soon, spray something like a little Pad Conditioner on the panel, and keep it going, damp, less damp, and then finished it just dry and then that`s it...

Of course, if you need to go back over because there are still scratches, etc., in that panel, then of course, you go again, and perhaps, add a little more downward pressure to the work, to help get the defects out..

The wool pads of the years long ago were just that - wool, and it got everywhere, if you ran the machine at a high speed, which is another reason I did not like higher speeds.. I just don`t need all those things over 1,000 rpm ever...

Now, how is it you don`t know if you are using a hard clear or not ??? You are the painter, right? You need to tell us a little about what you are doing to DRY all the Primer, before, and after you do the final Blocking of the Primer, and then how long for all those steps was the painted area/s actually drying, and how were they drying?? Heat lamps, outside, just air drying, etc...

The number of coats of the Primer, and the Paint have to be taken into account for knowing how long is everything going to need to be dry enough to work on it..

Lastly, you need to absolutely, have CLEAN PADS for every step, and that means many of each... Using dirty pads only puts the gunk you just removed out of the paint, back into the paint and the pad again...

To recap, I only use slower speeds, enough Moisture each time, to help keep everything working smoothly, and lots of stops, to see the work, wipe off the pad if you are using it a few more times, and then achieving the level of clarity and gloss needed to satisfy the Boss and the Client..

I only use smaller, white, clean towels for all pad wipe offs, so I can get a visual of what color is coming off the panel, and again, I wipe off the pad face with a clean, white, towel, and really soft, clean, clean, microfiber for the painted surfaces...

Softer Clear/Paint - have to lower the amount of heat you are making with the pad, product, and your technique, looking for the gloss to come out sooner...Some soft paints are really finicky and sometimes, only certain products for correcting will work on them the best... As you get more experience, a lot of this will come easier..

Good luck !
Dan F

[Buffingtech1]

I have been using 4,pads 3m wool and white foam and gray swirl remover pad and blue polish pad.(we get new pads ordered every week so when the pads are wore out we change them we just clean them between jobs) And no I’m not the painter at the shop I work at, I’m a buffing tech. When I went to vocational school, I was trained as a painter, never had to buff anything. My instructor refused to teach it because he hated doing it, where his dad, made him do it for 10 years straight, in his own body shop, when he was a kid. So he only did a small crash course on it, which was using a rotary buffer and 3m compound and polish 3 step process with 3m white compound pad and grey foam swirl waffle pad and a blue waffle polish pad and he only showed us that one time. And at my work we never have had a pad conditioner, we just have detailer spray to use to clean compound and polish to clean the panels and check for any other imperfections during and after process.

[Stokdgs]

If you only have 4 pads, that is a big problem... You can never do all the steps with just 4 pads... Again, the pads load up with product, and even after wiping them down after you finish the set of passes, they will still eventually get all clogged up with gunk from the process and will not work right..

You need to have a Lot of each pad, and use them as needed, to keep a clean as possible one on the work... I might go through 12+ pads on a vehicle, depending on what is wanted, and how bad the paintwork is, to start...

You need to have a dedicated foam pad cleaner... I have had great success with this for over 15 years --- Snappy Clean Pad Cleaning Powder 3 Pack

If you are using Microfiber for wipe off, you need a good cleaner for them too... I have had great success with Chemical Guys Microfiber Cleaner in the gallon jug..
If you wash and dry the microfiber with Anything else that, is not microfiber, you will get a lot of unwanted junk trapped in the microfiber, so think about that part too..

You are using too big a pad for automotive/truck work.. I only use 5" pads for about everything and smaller down to 1 inch for tiny places, etc...The 5 " pad is much easier to control, get into more places, and is for me, easier to monitor the heat vs, moisture part of this process..

I only used 6 inch pads when I was paint correcting airplanes, which have a way different type of paint on them on them and airplane paint can take higher speeds and not hurt it... But, the higher speeds add a lot more heat and throw more stuff farther away, that has to be cleaned up later... And,you end up killing dozens of pads on airplane paint..

You should see about them getting you a real paint cleaner spray to use for cleaning the panel of unwanted oils, fillers, etc., that come with most paint correction products... This product might be a good one to use to clean the paint after correcting it to make sure, it`s all good or not... RUPES REVEAL LITE Residue Remover

I am so sorry that your instructor was such an idiot by not teaching you how to paint correct because he hated it...Guess he really does not like doing this craft, because no matter what, body work, painting and paint correction will Always be tied together...

Good luck !
Dan F

[Buffingtech1]

Our shop would not allow us to go through that many pads on one vehicle I’d be fired if I ordered that many pads. We clean them very good they are not fully loaded with gunk we constantly clean them after every other pass. And the 9 inch pads are what our shop buys and allows us to use they don’t make very many changes considering the budget they keep it the same I have no control over that. Besides a mini polisher that’s a 3 inch but it’s air powered and hard to control speed on it more risk to burn through the clear with that one in my opinion. my instructor was not an idiot. He was like a grandfather to me took me in as one of his own he saved my life from a dark past but thanks for calling him an idiot. He did a lot of good with my paint training just not so much on buffing. So please refrain from calling him an idiot you only base your opinion on what he didn’t teach me which he’s not an idiot for that everyone is different as far as what values and knowledge they want to instill in some one

[noorth]

Buffingtech1 if your shop won`t buy different solutions i don`t think you will get any answers here.

I`m a hobbyist and only played around with a rotary a few times.

That said a 9 inch pad sounds very outdated/silly if it ever was a thing at all.

For the record Stokdgs is one of the most helpful guys around here.

[Setec Astronomy]

That said a 9 inch pad sounds very outdated/silly if it ever was a thing at all.

Actually if you look at the 3M video I linked above, it does still seem to be a thing.

[noorth]

Actually if you look at the 3M video I linked above, it does still seem to be a thing.

I see. I guess its faster...but it not something i ever been exposed to.

[Stokdgs]

BuffingTech1 --- I apologize for calling that man an idiot... I will refrain from opining out loud...

The bigger the pad, the MORE Area You have to keep track of, and then, there is the Cleaning of that big a pad after each set of passes...

I don`t even know the brand of the pad/s so I won`t say anything else about it..

Looks like from your replies, you are locked in to this level of process, so there is that..

If you will think about experimenting with at least, enough - moisture - on the panel, to mix with the the pad and product, and see if you can get it to finish down better, that will be good...

It would be so great if you could get with a person who is really experienced with Paint Correction with a Rotary, and has great results, to work with you and watch you do your process... Then, he could point out what needs to be done or not done, etc., and help you get better, sooner...

If you live anywhere near Northern California, I will be glad to bring down my Makita and some pads and product, and help you, let me know..

Good luck with this !
Dan F

[Dan]

I have a vehicle I tried buffing on it when I first started out and ended up burning it pretty bad. And was full of swirls and buffer trails after i got done. I am reminded of it every day at work but yet. I was trained as a painter never had to buff on anything.

Well then it doesn`t sound like a paint issue.

You absolutely have to experiment. When I read your posts it sounds like you want us to identify one small detail and it will magically fix your problem. You also sound very close to the end of your rope.

I know this is trite and overused BUT the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

You have to change things and note the results. Keep a notebook of what you tried and how things changed (or didn`t).

Personally if it were me, I`d go to Harbor Freight, get their forced rotation buffer, some pads from Amazon (I like meguiars) and a proven two step compound/polish. Then I`d get the mess on my personal car fixed.

At point you can say, cool, I`ve killed swirls. Then regroup and on to your next battle. Maybe get a junk hood and paint it and attack it using your buffer/pads/polish.

Then if that works replace your personal compound with the Weezards compound but use your machine/pads.

Keeping working your stuff out until you get to the culprit. And for goodness sakes, don`t do a whole car, just do small test areas.

[Stokdgs]

Again, we do not really know what Your Process is for paint correction... You have said that you have burned through paint before, and that alone needs to be addressed..

You have to absolutely, absolutely, keep the pad/machine - Moving - the entire time it is running on the panel.. There are no exceptions to this..

You have to absolutely, absolutely, know how much - Heat - you are creating on those passes.. Too much heat = you might burn through the paint there..

You have to absolutely, absolutely, know how much Pressure you are putting down on the machine/pad/product/paint, during that set of passes, and keeping the product ON the paint - thin - enough so that you can See your progress as it is working...

Are you seeing Less cloudy,faded,scratches,etc., as you work through that pass?? If you are NOT seeing any difference, you need to perhaps put more downward pressure on that/those spot/s, and evaluate your work after you finish, and do a wipe down...

I read up on "Wizards" product, and they have some good reviews, but I am not at all familiar with that brand...

There are lots of people making up new products every year, and I don`t wish to participate in being their Tester for them either... I have just a few brands I have used successfully on about every kind of car paint and airplane paint, and they always produce excellent results with not a lot finagling to get those results..

I know, you have said that you cannot control the purchase of any of the products you use.. If I were to recommend you use anything, well there are a couple of things, I wish you could try.... I would recommend you change out those 9 inch no idea what brand pads you use and get some of these from Lake Country, for the initial cut of that hopefully, fully dried new paint - Foamed Wool 7 x 1 inch Buffing and Polishing Pad
Yes, they are only 7 inches, to be used with a 6 inch backing plate...
And yes, I don`t like that big a pad for many reasons I have already stated..

But these purple foam wool pads work fast and great on a rotary, with downward pressure, moisture, etc., and finish out really nice, so the next Polish step is easier, and faster...

One last thing we have not discussed - how is your Lighting on the work??? What kind of lights are you using? Are they bright enough to allow you to see what is going on - clearly - as you go through that set of passes??? And can you Move them around with you as you go around the vehicle ??

Dan F

[Buffingtech1]

Well I don’t have to worry about it anymore I no longer work for that shop. I appreciate all the advice

[Lonnie]

Sorry to hear about your job/employment choice.
You know more about it and what it entails.
That is one aspect of detailing that many who start doing it forget: doing here-and-there as a hobby or for "fun" is much different than doing it every day for 8 hours a day as a job/career.
I will make this comment: you tried to learn to use a rotary and that is no "easy" task/skill to master.
Cannot blame you or your past employer.
Nor do I know how much of your rotary use was self-taught or how much was good instruction from an experienced buffer tech; doesn`t sound like you got that support you needed to really succeed to their expectation level of an "acceptable/competent" buffer technician.
Just let us know what you will do with what you learned. Experience, even if it is bad, is never lost, and you know your own limits and abilities. The "live-and- learn" concept still applies. Hey, if it was easy, everyone would do it, but as you found out , it is not.
Just do not give up on finding something you can do and like/love doing. You having something to give to this world and I appreciate your telling us Autopians your buffing problems relating to your past employment.
I would wish you good luck, but as Indy 500 driver Johnny Rutherford said after hitting the wall about luck,
"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity; we just were not prepared today."
Opportunities will present themselves ; and the real question is "am I prepared to take advantage of it and make the most of it not only for myself, but for others as well."