Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 79
  1. #31

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,121
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    I`d be interested to see the results from Carpro Essence, as well as Griot`s 3-in-1 Ceramic. Separately, of course.
    Thanks Loach thanked for this post

  2. #32
    Loach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    250
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing



    I performed a layering gloss test today using Zymol Glasur. I prepped the paint using Meguiar`s M210 and Prep-All, then I applied five coats of Glasur taking measurements after each coat. Keep in mind, any LSP based test can be largely based on the effort of your buffing with the microfiber, so I perform some heavy wipedowns in between a few coats to double check the readings. I also perform a fully damp microfiber wipe test after the 5th coat. These coats were applied about 10 minutes after each other, and I allowed the wax to dry for about 2-3 minutes before removing with a microfiber towel. Prep-All was then used to finish out the test. Temperature was pretty constant, between 78-80F for each result.

    Meter: Rhopoint Novo-Gloss Trio / Calibrated to 93.1GU / 60 Measurement Angle

    Pre-Test Measurements
    GU: 94.9 - 95.7

    Meguiar`s M210 Ultra Pro Finishing Polish:
    GU: 95.5 - 96.2
    Panel Wipe: Prep-All

    Zymol Glasur
    1st Coat GU: 94.8 - 95.7
    2nd Coat GU: 94.0 - 95.1 Heavy Wipe GU: 94.2 - 95.2
    3rd Coat GU: 93.4 - 94.7 Heavy Wipe GU: 93.7 - 94.9
    4th Coat GU: 92.0 - 94.4 Heavy Wipe GU: 92.4 - 94.4
    5th Coat GU: 91.3 - 94.7 Heavy Wipe GU: 92.2 - 94.9 New microfiber and fresh side of applicator used.
    Damp Microfiber Wipe GU: 93.5 - 95.4
    Prep-All Wipe GU: 95.5 - 96.3


    General thoughts on this test is you can see a bit of a downward trend in gloss measurements as additional coats are applied to the paint. I used fresh sides of the same microfiber towel for the first four coats, and then on the 5th coat I went ahead and switched to a fresh towel. I also flipped over the applicator pad to the fresh side on the 5th coat, the first four coats were applied using the same side of the applicator pad. Lightly scraping the pad back into the wax before each coat was applied. Heavy buffing did have a slight bump in gloss readings. For the damp microfiber I fully saturated the towel with tap water and wrung it out to about 75% dry and wiped the section, then a new dry towel was used and this did have a jump in the readings.

    But notice how the single spray and wipe with Prep-All at the end of the test immediately jumped readings back up to the M210 numbers! 0.1GU bump in the top end which is within a margin of error. Next time I may run 5 separate applicators and 5 separate towels for each coat. There`s a lot of factors that could be at play, since the same applicator side was used for each of the first four coats, you`ve got drying wax that could possibly continue to contaminate a section, but we possibly deal with this when working around the entire car with just the first coat using one foam applicator. When is it necessary to swap to a new applicator in order to provide the best gloss clarity in the paint? How many swipes in the jar does it take to negatively impact gloss measurements to a significant level? A ton of factors at play that I may attempt to control and test for.

    Overall the paint continued to look great as the coats were applied on top, I didn`t notice any cloudiness or hazing, but I could tell after the additional coats that I wasn`t getting quite as crisp a wipeoff compared to the first coat using the Scangrip, but it was still wiping off pretty cleanly. As far as this test goes, if someone tells you that they`re seeing a difference in depth or finish after multiple coats, this is something that the meter can possibly detect in terms of a reduced gloss reading with Glasur. Which again, on this panel that has approached its upper abrasive limit is not unexpected when waxes and sealants are applied on top.

    If you guys have any specific gloss testing requests, feel free to share and I`ll see if I can jump on them!
    WaxMode - Product Testing & Reviews
    Likes tonipieleanu, Coleroad liked this post

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,130
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Loach- While this has all become merely an Intellectual Curiosity Topic for me, that kinda confirmed my suspicion that Glasur ("made for German paint!"..Glasur as in "Glasurit" ) wasn`t anything special (like Glasurit paint itself ).

    Hey, at least you did confirm that it layers, as Zymol fans have always claimed about, AFAIK, all their waxes (the *real* Zymols, not the consumer/OTC/?TW? stuff at the dime store).

    Now that same test with one of their Estate Glazes would really pique my curiosity, but I don`t expect anybody to spend that kind of $ just to take some readings!

    And that`s an interesting hypothesis about the applicator..maybe fans of (immediate) layering will want to consider that. I suppose some, uhm...Autopian...might consider it for a regular/one-coat waxing too.
    Likes Loach liked this post

  4. #34
    Loach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    250
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMeanGreen View Post
    I`d be interested to see the results from Carpro Essence, as well as Griot`s 3-in-1 Ceramic. Separately, of course.
    Definitely, I can run tests with these and pull results for you. My bottle of Essence is pretty old, but the polish itself looks good, I can see if there`s a curing effect by taking measurements after application, then waiting a day and rerun measurements. The same with Griot`s as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Loach- While this has all become merely an Intellectual Curiosity Topic for me, that kinda confirmed my suspicion that Glasur ("made for German paint!"..Glasur as in "Glasurit" ) wasn`t anything special (like Glasurit paint itself ).

    Hey, at least you did confirm that it layers, as Zymol fans have always claimed about, AFAIK, all their waxes (the *real* Zymols, not the consumer/OTC/?TW? stuff at the dime store).

    Now that same test with one of their Estate Glazes would really pique my curiosity, but I don`t expect anybody to spend that kind of $ just to take some readings!

    And that`s an interesting hypothesis about the applicator..maybe fans of (immediate) layering will want to consider that. I suppose some, uhm...Autopian...might consider it for a regular/one-coat waxing too.
    My addiction is a problem:



    I`ve got the 2oz samplers of Atlantique, Destiny, and Concours, as well as a 1oz sample of Vintage that I can pick from and run another layering test with!

  5. #35

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,121
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Loach View Post
    Definitely, I can run tests with these and pull results for you. My bottle of Essence is pretty old, but the polish itself looks good, I can see if there`s a curing effect by taking measurements after application, then waiting a day and rerun measurements. The same with Griot`s as well.



    My addiction is a problem:



    I`ve got the 2oz samplers of Atlantique, Destiny, and Concours, as well as a 1oz sample of Vintage that I can pick from and run another layering test with!
    Ive used outdated Essence with exceptional results in terms of polishing and filling abilities. Essence+ is the one to worry about. Haha. Thank you for considering to test, I appreciate it.
    Thanks Loach thanked for this post

  6. #36

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    72
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Absolutely fantastic thread - will continue to follow this with great interest.

    A well known Youtuber got superb gloss results from TAC systems One Step Master, Moonlight and Shinee Wax. If you had these to hand would make for interesting comparison with something like Gyeon Cancoat.
    Thanks Loach thanked for this post

  7. #37

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,130
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Loach View Post
    My addiction is a problem...


    Gee, you *have, uhm...accumulated...a lot of `em!

    I`ve got the 2oz samplers of Atlantique, Destiny, and Concours, as well as a 1oz sample of Vintage that I can pick from and run another layering test with!
    Well, if you do I`ll sure enjoy finding out what happens!

    While it`s easy to dismiss uber-pricey LSPs like those Estate Glazes as complete wastes of $, some Autopians whose opinions I respect have insisted that those waxes yield results that simply can`t be duplicated with other LSPs. I`ve always wondered whether they`re seeing what they want to see, but I`ve also always given them the benefit of the doubt...at least on their paint, in their opinion.
    Likes Loach liked this post

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,121
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Loach- Could I also add Mckee`s 37 Trademark Extender Spray Wax to the list, I think you might be able to get a sample size from M37? It seems to be a hidden product within the Mckee`s line that few have paid attention to...

  9. #39
    acuRAS82's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    953
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMeanGreen View Post
    Loach- Could I also add Mckee`s 37 Trademark Extender Spray Wax to the list, I think you might be able to get a sample size from M37? It seems to be a hidden product within the Mckee`s line that few have paid attention to...
    I pay attention to it and have been using it the last month. If only anyone who lived near me did these types of tests...

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,121
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by acuRAS82 View Post
    I pay attention to it and have been using it the last month. If only anyone who lived near me did these types of tests...
    What are your thoughts on it, versus other spray waxes, sealants, or quick detailers in your arsenal?

  11. #41
    Loach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    250
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMeanGreen View Post
    Ive used outdated Essence with exceptional results in terms of polishing and filling abilities. Essence+ is the one to worry about. Haha. Thank you for considering to test, I appreciate it.
    So I have two 16oz bottles of Essence Plus which separate really quickly in the bottles and I always felt this was a very unstable type of product, and every once in a while I`ll pull one out and give it a good shake. The one that I transferred into a regular 32 oz to get better leverage on the shaking finally had some sort of reaction recently after doing this for a few years, and it actually mixed into a really smooth gelatin texture which no longer separates at all, permanent change, hasn`t diverted back. So whether or not this is good or bad is one thing, but feels like it still works just fine on the paint and I don`t have to shake the living hell out of the bottle before using it!

    Now I`ve been shaking the other bottle everyday seeing if the planets will align again for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by atbalfour View Post
    Absolutely fantastic thread - will continue to follow this with great interest.

    A well known Youtuber got superb gloss results from TAC systems One Step Master, Moonlight and Shinee Wax. If you had these to hand would make for interesting comparison with something like Gyeon Cancoat.
    Cheers! I don`t have any TAC Systems yet, and I`ve been on their site more than a few times with items in the cart over the years and I`ve resisted the temptation. Both Brian at Apex Detail and Jon at Forensic Detailing have seen great gloss boosts out of Shinee Wax so I eventually want to get my hands on Shinee Wax in the future to runs tests with on this panel.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMeanGreen View Post
    Loach- Could I also add Mckee`s 37 Trademark Extender Spray Wax to the list, I think you might be able to get a sample size from M37? It seems to be a hidden product within the Mckee`s line that few have paid attention to...
    I`ll have to double check to see if I have Trademark Extender, I definitely have Fast Wax so I`ll double check tomorrow to see if I have a sample of Trademark.

  12. #42
    Loach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    250
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing



    I couldn`t resist this request from Accumulator, I decided to pull out my Zymol Atlantique sample to run another five coat gloss test and cross reference these results with the results from Glasur. Atlantique feels a bit more oily than Glasur, but you`re still able to get a pretty clean wipeoff, and the paint did look great throughout the test. Same process as the previous test with Glasur, but after the final wipe with Prep-All I decided to apply a final application of the wax to check against the first coat. The temperature was pretty consistent, ranging between 80-83F.

    Meter: Rhopoint Novo-Gloss Trio / Calibrated to 93.1GU / 60 Measurement Angle

    Pre-Test Measurements
    GU: 95.6 - 96.2

    Meguiar`s M210 Ultra Pro Finishing Polish:
    GU: 95.5 - 96.2
    Panel Wipe: Prep-All

    Zymol Atlantique
    1st Coat GU: 94.2 - 95.5
    2nd Coat GU: 92.2 - 93.7 Heavy Wipe GU: 92.7 - 94.1
    3rd Coat GU: 90.3 - 93.5 Heavy Wipe GU: 92.0 - 94.3
    4th Coat GU: 89.7 - 94.1 Heavy Wipe GU: 92.5 - 94.2
    5th Coat GU: 91.5 - 94.1 Heavy Wipe GU: 92.0 - 94.3 New microfiber and fresh side of applicator used.
    Damp Microfiber Wipe GU: 93.6 - 95.0
    Prep-All Wipe GU: 95.5 - 96.1
    Follow up Coat GU: 93.7 - 95.7


    You can see that there is a downward trend in measurements after the first coat, but the upper limit levels out with coats 2-5. The "heavy wipe" is overly aggressive, there`s no way I would ever want to put this much pressure down onto the paint outside of testing. If I ever run into a situation where I need to be more aggressive for a cleaner wipe while working with wax, I will reach for a damp microfiber towel as this is a much easier process and this provides a fully clean wipeoff with little effort. The heavy wiping really averages out the readings more effectively than the standard wipeoff. Even though the max limit after the heavy wiping isn`t noticeably impacted, the averages and consistency between the readings is noticeably improved. Same bump up in readings compared to Glasur after the damp microfiber wipe. And again, nearly identical jump up in gloss readings after using Prep-All after the 5th coat compared to how it performed on Glasur.

    Overall, if someone told me that they`re noticing a much deeper finish out of multiple coats of a particular wax, I think there`s evidence to support that a change in the finish is very plausible. Whether it`s deeper, wetter, richer, I can understand through this type of testing how one would possibly be observing this. Even though the gloss is reading lower after the first coat, I`m not seeing any noticeable depreciation in the finish from coat to coat.

    I like Atlantique, oily which makes it nice and easy to spread, but still providing a clean wipeoff on the first coat. This clean wipe does become a bit more difficult with additional coats, but I didn`t see any unevenness or streaking. Zymol has a very attractive wax formula across the board with their waxes. Decently easy to work with, providing some of the absolute craziest water beading when they`re fresh. But I have had sweating issues in the Florida heat, and I can only imagine that trying to double up on coats would make that tendency for the waxes to sweat even more apparent. I also can`t stand these 2oz sampler jars, makes it an absolute pain to get the applicator loaded up. You try and do the whole car jabbing the sampler container with the pad and that $1,643 price for the 8oz jar starts looking a bit more attractive.

    After doing this test I did check into Zymol`s site and saw the 60-90 minute recommended cure for Atlantique. I may rerun this test to abide by that timeframe to see if it does make a difference in the future.
    WaxMode - Product Testing & Reviews
    Likes Coleroad, rlmccarty2000 liked this post

  13. #43

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,130
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Loach- AH, thanks! That`s exactly the kind of testing I was thinking of...and Atlantique was a great choice IMO (I even remember that "sweating" issue, one of the reasons I never got serious about the Estate Glazes).

    Gee, (technically) lower gloss than the Glasur, huh? But yeah..more to "how it looks" than just the gloss readings.

    More idle curiosity- Did you notice any discernible diffs in the appearance between the Atlantique and the Glasur? Just subjectively..."eh, kinda liked that one better" type impressions?

    EDIT: I do kinda wonder whether waiting longer might`ve had an impact...the whole user-involvement aspect of the Estate Glazes always seemed off-putting to me, just too much work dependent on careful (visual) evaluation.
    Likes Loach liked this post

  14. #44
    Loach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    250
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Loach- AH, thanks! That`s exactly the kind of testing I was thinking of...and Atlantique was a great choice IMO (I even remember that "sweating" issue, one of the reasons I never got serious about the Estate Glazes).

    Gee, (technically) lower gloss than the Glasur, huh? But yeah..more to "how it looks" than just the gloss readings.

    More idle curiosity- Did you notice any discernible diffs in the appearance between the Atlantique and the Glasur? Just subjectively..."eh, kinda liked that one better" type impressions?

    EDIT: I do kinda wonder whether waiting longer might`ve had an impact...the whole user-involvement aspect of the Estate Glazes always seemed off-putting to me, just too much work dependent on careful (visual) evaluation.
    The sweating can be a big problem unfortunately, and if Zymol didn`t sweat - it would be a near perfect wax for me. With Ital the sweating wasn`t fixed with a simple wash or rewipe, or ice cold water wipedown after application, it was lasting through the washes which eventually leads to streaking and holograms. I think eventually it will fully outgas but it wouldn`t be my wax of choice if I was detailing professionally on client cars as a show car wax in this kind of heat, I would dread the call back of the wax hazing over. Souveran doesn`t have this issue, but Souveran also doesn`t give that kind of insane hydrophobics that Zymol gives across the board.

    Since Atlantique is more oily than Glasur, I would expect it to deliver marginally lower readings. Again, at this kind of level with the panel pretty much approaching maximum gloss, I`m expecting most LSP`s to reduce the measurable gloss to a certain extent. The question is what are the best types of oils that can really burnish and deepen and warm the glow of the finish beyond the pure gloss that is delivered by the abrasive polishing step? And I think Zymol`s quest is switching up the content of the oils and types of oils between their different waxes to try and deliver on minor differences.

    My eyes don`t see a difference with how the paint looks between Glasur and Atlantique, but this paint isn`t the best color to be able to showcase any potential differences effectively. I pull them outside in the sun and all I see is GLOW. Very difficult for me to try and detect the nuances at this level. But I do think a difference is possible, even if it`s very slight and no where near worth a $1,500 difference in price. It would be a tough choice for me to select Glasur over Creame for the price as well.

    I really wish Zymol wasn`t playing such a heavy pricing game, I would pay a premium for an 8oz jar of Destiny which one of my favorite smelling waxes. Not an $800 premium though.

  15. #45

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,130
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Comprehensive Gloss Measurement Thread - WaxMode Testing

    Loach- Heh heh..yeah, that *is* a price-to-pay for something that smells nice when the looks are so similar to the cheaper varieties! And there`s just *zero* way I`d ever put up with the sweating/etc. Man...when I finish waxing, I want to be *finished*!

    And yeah#2 on Souveran, that`s about as user-friendly as paste waxes get IME, even on trim if you do it right. If you ever test *that* one (or did I miss it?) I`d be curious how it does; it`s maybe the only LSP my wife could always *immediately* spot on her silver Audi.."ah, you used the `white wax` (as she called it) again, I simply *love* how that one looks!". She`d spot it any time I switched that car from/to Souveran...which I quit doing since it meant basically rewaxing at every wash.

    If it weren`t so hard to ship stuff these days I`d probably be offering to send some M16 and 476S..two waxes I consider interesting even though the former is gone now. I do have partial tins of both just sitting here going bad (if they ever *really* do..haven`t noticed that happening yet), even found new tins of M16 and the old 3M Showcar Paste Wax that I`d almost put in the Souveran category for ease-of-use (and durability too I`m afraid...but it does look nice).

    And hey, I hadn`t thought of the "cold water treatment" for ages! Yeah...used to do that a lot, back in the days when I`d also spit-shine things.
    Likes Loach liked this post

 

 
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Sio2 (hydro2 type) testing thread
    By MattPersman in forum Car Detailing
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 04-16-2017, 12:16 PM
  2. Adam`s H2O Guard and Gloss Durability Thread
    By SYMAWD in forum Detailing Product Reviews
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-09-2015, 04:55 PM
  3. 3 Machines, same pads, same compounds, gloss testing.
    By JohnKleven in forum Machine Polishing & Sanding
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 11-30-2010, 09:01 AM
  4. Comprehensive Leather Care Thread
    By imported_Megafast13 in forum Interior Car Care
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 10-20-2010, 01:21 PM
  5. Medical Question (cholesterol measurement)
    By Dave N in forum Hot Tub
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 12-18-2005, 04:21 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •