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  1. #1

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    Degreasers for paint prep

    Waiting on some products to arrive to attempt my first ever DA cut / polish and a paint protection system. (Coating, sealant wax, etc)

    I have a wipe out spray coming for after polishing and I have an iron remover prior to the clay step....but I have been reading where it is recommended to use a de-greaser such as P21S total auto wash or Optimum power clean prior to the intital wash. For a weekend detailer is this step necessary? (I know that is a very subjective question). So maybe I should say what difference will I notice if I perform this step and what difference will I notice if I skip this step prior to my wash?


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  2. #2

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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    I have never used any product before washing the car when doing a full wash/clay/polish/LSP detail and have not noticed any issues or the inability to get the car fully clean. Unless the vehicle is horribly dirty, a quality car shampoo should get the surface clean and ready for the next steps.
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  3. #3

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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    I guess I’ll also say this

    If this is done to help in lessening any marring of the paint from the clay bar step...well I neglected by paint forever so my entire car is currently a test surface, so to speak


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  4. #4

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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    I do "strip" washes before doing corrections - either a RTU product (Adam`s Strip Wash, CarPro Reset, etc.) or just adding 2-3 oz of APC to my regular 2 bucket wash. There should not be a need to wash the car twice. The strip wash does a `deep` cleaning, but how it affects the clay step will depend on what kind of contamination is on the paint - e.g. if there is overspray it will not affect that, but it will help remove `traffic film`.

  5. #5
    Hooked For Life Bill D's Avatar
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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    The Valugard ABC system ought to do a very thorough job of stripping before polishing.
    Treat it like it`s the only one in the world.
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  6. #6

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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    Astouffer512- Noting that 1) "weekend Detailer" or Pro, it ougtha be done right and 2) I`d decontaminate the vehicle with ValuGard`s "ABC" instead (which would probably eliminate, or at least greatly reduce, that "marring from the decontamination step" concern)...

    No, I don`t think you should do the prewash that way.

    I don`t see the rationale behind prewashing with a degreaser. Unless the car is, well...greasy...I wouldn`t do that; degreasers emulsify grease and I doubt that`s your challenge. It sounds to me like you`d just like to get the car as clean as possible before you clay.

    I like P21s TAW (have used many of their 5L jugs), an OPC too, but both are seriously lacking in lubricity/encapsulation and I`d never wash a vehicle with them unless I had a very good, specific, reason to do so.

    Unless washing with the ValuGard "A" (to neutralize any acidic contamination via its alkaline nature, more than to just do its "super wash", which it will also do), I`d just wash it with a really strong regular shampoo mix. Even though you plan to do Correction, I`d try *really hard* to avoid marring the paint any more than it already is.

    As long as you clay properly, with the right kind of clay/lube, you shouldn`t mar the paint much (I`m tempted to say "at all" but hey, stuff happens). Just remember that the clay oughta glide along on a film of lube, shearing off contamination that it bumps into (it does *NOT* "pull it out of the paint" the way some say). Don`t press so hard that it goes through that film of lube and contacts the paint directly. Be sure to inspect/knead/replace the clay *VERY* often as the moment it picks up a speck of abrasive contamination it becomes sandpaper. I tear the claybar into small pieces and pitch them (or save them for nasty-duty) as soon as they`re contaminated, which can also save your [bacon] if you drop the clay (drop clay = throw it away). That still leaves contamination in the pores/microfissures of the paint, hence the need to still use a Ferrous Contamination Remover (and, IMO, something to neutralize any acids that`re there but I understand that few bother with that).

    Since (sorry to say...) I`m pretty sure you won`t bother with "ABC", I`d start by inspecting the vehicle and determining just what the primary decontamination challenge will be and go from there. Mechanical Decontamination (claying and the clay substitutes like the towels/sponges/etc.) is not a cure-all. If it has etching from bird bombs/bugs/acid rain, you should use something really alkaline to neutralize that stuff or it might (probably will) continue to eat into the paint; if it has lots of Rust Blooms/other signs of Ferrous Contamination then yeah you`ll need something to fix that. Different types of contamination call for different approaches.

    Perhaps there`s some new SuperDuper Carwash Product that I`m unaware of that`ll handle all the various issues (need for extremely effective cleaning, ability to neutralized both acidic and alkaline contamination, plus ability to handle Ferrous Contamination). If so, I bet somebody here knows about it

    EDIT: While I was keying in the long-winded stuff above, Bill D said it all nice and succinctly!
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  7. #7

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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    Need to use the "A" to remove any acids down in the pores and old wax or sealants, dirt stains. Then the "B" which removes any ferrous metal (rail dust) and replaces the plastizers of the paint that the high alkaline "A" may have removed. Once these are finished, it is "VITAL" that the "C", Detail Wash is used as it returns the paint and it`s pores to a pH neutral condition. When the ABC system is used, the paint will "squeak" like a clean dish plate as "every contaminate, not only on the surface but deep down in the pores is removed". ABC is not a "new" system, has been in use since 1996 on millions of vehicles and is the "recognized" system by 9 of the largest vehicle manufacturers in the world. Just be smart enough to follow directions and not try to "out guess" the paint engineers,etc by substituting other products or not using all 3 products in the correct order and dwell times.
    "Logic dictates I have been at this detailing thing way too many years!":wink1:
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  8. #8

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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    Just did my first bit of reading on the Valueguard ABC system, why hasn`t this caught on? $55.00 for the entire kit before shipping and application number of 10-15 cars, it really seems like a great value.

  9. #9

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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    When I formulated it, was never intended for the DYI`s but large operations such as port operations, auto manufacturers predelivery centers and larger car dealers.
    Notice it is not available from distributors such a Autogeek, etc, as the company`s focus has always been large volume users.
    "Logic dictates I have been at this detailing thing way too many years!":wink1:
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  10. #10
    Hooked For Life Bill D's Avatar
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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    I bet if Autogeek offered it, people would be all over it and it would be the talk of the town especially if it was sold under one of their brands.
    Treat it like it`s the only one in the world.
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  11. #11

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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    Only private labeled it one time back in the late 90`s for Chrysler Canada`s Master Prep dealer program. That program went away in 2000. Also did a one year run for Ford around 2004,however it went away as dealers found they could buy the Valugard products direct at a big savings, so now all their TSB`s list the Valugard products. Been retired for 11 years and the company still stands by it`s marketing program to only provide direct to users.
    Originally only sold in 5 gal and 55 gal drums. Mazda wanted it available in smaller sizes for their dealers, so I put together the M-32 kit of gallons, which is the kit still being sold for dealers.

    "Logic dictates I have been at this detailing thing way too many years!":wink1:
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  12. #12
    Hooked For Life Bill D's Avatar
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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    The gallon kit is the one us enthusiasts can buy. I’m really glad it’s still available in this size.
    Treat it like it`s the only one in the world.
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  13. #13

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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    Too bad they no longer offer it through dealerships. Not that I ever had any problems ordering directly from ValuGard/AutoInt.

    I suspect that people are put off by the idea of having "those big gallon jugs sitting on the shelf", although hey..it doesn`t seem to go bad, infinite shelf-life IME.

    Ketch- Hey, I didn`t know that "put together for Mazda" part of the story! Sure glad you did that, otherwise I can`t imagine *any* DIYer having the stuff.

  14. #14
    Hooked For Life Bill D's Avatar
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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    Yep, mine sits on the shelf too. I’m sure glad it has such a long shelf life.
    Treat it like it`s the only one in the world.

  15. #15

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    Re: Degreasers for paint prep

    Why type of effect would the Valugaurd system have on a non OEM clear coat or PPF?

 

 
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