Best products for swirl mark removal by hand?

[Ronkh]

Thanks for all the info guys. My main reason not to want to buy a polisher is not to risk doing something harmful to the finish while I`m learning how to use it. I think for this car I`ll pay someone to get it good and then I`ll just keep it nice as I have all of my cars (funny how it seems like you can never find a used car in quite as nice condition as it would be if you owned it the whole time).

What about if I change my question to be more localized, like after wet sanding out a small scratch? The 3M Rubbing Compound gets out the sanding marks, but then the 3M swirl mark remover seems to do very little (or perhaps it leaves behind it`s own fine scratches), and the 3M Hand Glaze does nothing at all as far as I can tell (I now use P21S Paintwork Cleanser where I would have used the Hand Glaze before, i.e. just to get out contaminants). I try to avoid Meguiar`s ever since I watched their wheel cleaner strip the paint off my wheels and bleach the driveway below the wheel. Maybe all the other products are good, but just out of spite I don`t like to buy their products after that (even though I`ll admit a good body shop where I used to live told me they tested a bunch of different products and the Meguiar`s Professional line was as good or better than anything else).

EDIT: I`ve been reading some of the links. I`m starting to think my real problem with the products I already use isn`t the product, but that I use a towel to apply it. Time to research pads...

Relax with the polisher if you get a good D/A

If I can, you can

[GearHead_1]

Relax with the polisher if you get a good D/A

If I can, you can

No comment.

Seriously though, listen to Ron. Approach this with a be smart, can do and patient attitude. You`ll be amazed at your results. There`s a fair number of quality D/A`s out there that won`t break the bank and that will make this all but goof proof. Buy decent products, plenty of insightful recommendations on this forum and the reality is that you`ll likey be money ahead buying the equipment instead of paying someone to do a full 3 step to your vehicle twice and you`ll still have something to show for the money spent.

I`ve spent several afternoons with people who wanted their cars to pop all the time (paying the pros can be expensive) but didn`t have the confidence to go after it themselves. These people were car people that I thought could catch on and do this themselves. For me there was nothing to lose as I don`t do it for a living, I wasn`t really looking for a repeat customer and after all they were friends. A little looking over their shoulder and in a very short time they were on their way. Three of these people ended up buying their own equipment after doing this only one time. I did end up selling one of these guys the pads we used on his boat simply because I didn`t want to clean the pads after the paint transfer. I showed him how and he was good with that.

The moral to this story if any is if you love your car, learn to do this. You`ll be glad you did.

[Accumulator]

Thanks for all the info guys. My main reason not to want to buy a polisher is not to risk doing something harmful to the finish while I`m learning how to use it...

That shouldn`t really be a concern. Using a modern random orbital polisher is so safe and simple that..well, if you can drive a car....

..What about if I change my question to be more localized, like after wet sanding out a small scratch? The 3M Rubbing Compound gets out the sanding marks, but then the 3M swirl mark remover seems to do very little (or perhaps it leaves behind it`s own fine scratches), and the 3M Hand Glaze does nothing at all as far as I can tell (I now use P21S Paintwork Cleanser where I would have used the Hand Glaze before, i.e. just to get out contaminants)...

Most neophytes wetsand too deeply with the wrong grit of paper used the wrong way. Almost *always*. That said, 3M makes so many Rubbing Compounds that I can only guess which one you used (hope you wore a mask if it was PI-II!!), ditto for their Swirl Removers. But hardly any of their current products work all that well by hand. And the Glaze is utterly nonabrasive. The P21s stuff is functionally nonabrasive on most paints.

Wetsanding, and correcting the sanding marks (let alone by hand!) is a somewhat complexs issue and most people with limited training/experience botch it up. Remember that if you take off a few too many mils of clear you`ll precipitate premature failure from UV exposure. I forget the actual cutoff point,but it`s a lot less than most people think (and it`s a LONG ways from "cutting through the clear").

Anyhow, running a polisher is a zillion times safer than trying even the most minor wetsanding work.

..I try to avoid Meguiar`s ever since I watched their wheel cleaner strip the paint off my wheels and bleach the driveway below the wheel. Maybe all the other products are good, but just out of spite...

Eh, just because you used the wrong product for the wheels in question (I bet you used their Wheel Brightener) I wouldn`t, well..."don`t cut off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind

EDIT: I`ve been reading some of the links. I`m starting to think my real problem with the products I already use isn`t the product, but that I use a towel to apply it. Time to research pads...

Use high-quality MF for almost everything and certainly for anything other than the initial work. MY take on this is that you`re using the wrong products too, and such work is time consuming enough if you use the right stuff!

[marlinspike]

Most neophytes wetsand too deeply with the wrong grit of paper used the wrong way. Almost *always*. That said, 3M makes so many Rubbing Compounds that I can only guess which one you used (hope you wore a mask if it was PI-II!!), ditto for their Swirl Removers. But hardly any of their current products work all that well by hand. And the Glaze is utterly nonabrasive. The P21s stuff is functionally nonabrasive on most paints.
....
Eh, just because you used the wrong product for the wheels in question (I bet you used their Wheel Brightener) I wouldn`t, well..."don`t cut off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind
....
Use high-quality MF for almost everything and certainly for anything other than the initial work. MY take on this is that you`re using the wrong products too, and such work is time consuming enough if you use the right stuff!

3000 grit and this compound 3M Rubbing Compound, 8 ounce, 03900 - 3M Auto (which seems like Perfect It II to me just in a smaller bottle)
It definitely was not the wrong type of wheel product. It was more than 10 years ago, and I don`t think it was anything I see on their website now, but it was definitely not something that needed dilution. I do remember it was not part of their professional line nor their Gold Class line.

I promise I`ve tried to get used to microfiber, but they seem to pick up things just sitting in the air and never let them go, including after a wash. Maybe that`s another thing that I`m doing wrong. I used to get better results from Zymol cotton towels than the Blu-Velvet micofibers I have, but my Zymol`s are all finally worn out and I can`t find any more good cotton towels, so that`s another issue I`m facing.

[Accumulator]

marlinspike- OK, didn`t mean to jump to an unflattering conclusion!

Props to you for using 3K paper, nice and mild. Still takes a bit of work to correct by hand though. Sounds like maybe you just need to use something a bit more aggressive for the follow-up. The PI-II (don`t breath the dust) doesn`t leave all *that* bad of a finish, so it oughta be doable.

Hard to say about the wheel cleaner, some wheels just have finishes that are more fragile than one might expect.

Big trick with MFs` contaminant-retention is to not let them pick up nasty stuff in the first place, easier said than done, huh?!? Good/safe cotton is tough to find these days..used to be you could get "Concours Buffing Towels" and/or "Koala Soft" ones.

[ShawnF350]

Marlin, where you located?
If someone is close by they may let you try a DA.
I`m still inexperienced . I get awesome finishes and am slowly working on an older car with heavy swirls. I`m not very good at swirl removal but agree with everyone`s input.
My theory as a beginner is that I want to see improvement but don`t get disappointed when it`s not swirl free. I figure then I`m not being too aggressive.
I have Meguiars ultimate polish/compound and all the PoorBoys SSRs and polishes.
Now I know it`s just me being too careful.
I have a Griots, Flex 3401, and the Rupes 15. Once I get more experience I can stop blaming the products and polishers.��

[Swanicyouth]

Thanks for all the info guys. My main reason not to want to buy a polisher is not to risk doing something harmful to the finish while I`m learning how to use it. I think for this car I`ll pay someone to get it good and then I`ll just keep it nice as I have all of my cars (funny how it seems like you can never find a used car in quite as nice condition as it would be if you owned it the whole time).

What about if I change my question to be more localized, like after wet sanding out a small scratch? The 3M Rubbing Compound gets out the sanding marks, but then the 3M swirl mark remover seems to do very little (or perhaps it leaves behind it`s own fine scratches), and the 3M Hand Glaze does nothing at all as far as I can tell (I now use P21S Paintwork Cleanser where I would have used the Hand Glaze before, i.e. just to get out contaminants). I try to avoid Meguiar`s ever since I watched their wheel cleaner strip the paint off my wheels and bleach the driveway below the wheel. Maybe all the other products are good, but just out of spite I don`t like to buy their products after that (even though I`ll admit a good body shop where I used to live told me they tested a bunch of different products and the Meguiar`s Professional line was as good or better than anything else).

EDIT: I`ve been reading some of the links. I`m starting to think my real problem with the products I already use isn`t the product, but that I use a towel to apply it. Time to research pads...

I`m going to take a little different opinion here. The hand can be quite (overly) aggressive. Sure it`s near impossible to correct a modern clear coat car completely by hand for normal people.

But, compounds used by hand, in certain situations will remove a lot of clear coat (material). What your going after (want) is uniform material removal. This is predicable and reproducible with a DA.

By hand, there will be certain positions that are more comfortable, where you will be over removing clear coat, and certain positions that will be less comfortable - where you will be under removing.

It`s not too hard to put "finger marks" in paint by being overly aggressive with compounds by hand. In this respect, the DA is actually safer than the hand, because it provides uniform downward pressure and uniform/predictable/reproducible material removal.

Seriously, we`ve all been through it here. Buy a DA or just live with the finish.

Can you find me a single thread on a detailing forum where someone said a DA Screwed Up My Paint???

You can pay a pro - but it won`t beat the satisfaction and the learning experience of doing it yourself. Plus - buying all the stuff is cheaper than paying a pro and you will have it for future use.

Meg`s stuff is pretty good. If you damaged a wheel using Wheel Brite - you didn`t read the directions. That being said, I`d stick to boutique brands (Wolfgang, BlackFire, Menzerna, etc..) to start. They will be easier to use (compared to Megs Professional line).

As for microfiber towels, they are the correct thing to use. If they are picking up all sorts of stuff - the car is not clean, the towel is not clean, or you are not storing them correctly. We are all using them successfully. They "pick up stuff" - because they excel at picking up dirt on paint. Cotton is a dinosaur. It`s time to adapt to high quality microfiber. Learn about microfiber and how to clean and store it. It`s not too difficult - and you will get better results with microfiber.

[Accumulator]

..Can you find me a single thread on a detailing forum where someone said a DA Screwed Up My Paint???

Well, the one time I had a major "oops!" with a polisher it was with an original-model PC (as opposed to my numerous more aggressive units)! Mild pad/product combo too. Heh heh,...."leave it to me?!?", huh?

I have seen a fair number of threads about this over the years, and known people who did real damage too (including a pal here who managed to do it under the direct tutelage of a certain highly regarded expert!), but it was almost always a case of, to put it bluntly, carelessness or stupidity.

Hey marlinspike- that won`t apply to you so don`t worry.

[marlinspike]

Hey marlinspike- that won`t apply to you so don`t worry.

I guess I`m just outdated, as I`ve done a bit of reading and I`m apparently stuck in the days of rotary polishers that needed skill to use (or at least that`s what the people I knew told me). Looks like these new things are a lot safer, and after getting a quote from a pro, the way I`m going to go. Now to research polishers...

ShawnF350, I`m in the Tidewater region of Virginia.

Swanicyouth, I appreciate the info and the help, but again, for clarity, it was NOT the wheel brightener that I used. I don`t even know if that existed back then. It was off-the-shelf consumer-grade wheel cleaner they sold a little over a decade ago (I remember I bought it at Trak Auto, so it can`t have been within the last 10 years).

[Accumulator]

marlinspike- Yes indeed, it`s a whole `nother ballgame now that there are so many good Random Orbital polishers out there.

FWIW, a good sure-to-be-safe wheel cleaner is the one Griot`s Garage sells. And speaking of Griot`s, their 6" Random Orbital Polisher is *great*, lifetime warranty too. If I could only have one of my polishers, it`d be that one. The Rupes 21 is superior, but more expensive. The Flex 3401 is a bit more capable (than the Griot`s) with regard to serious correction, but IME it doesn`t finish *quite* as well (note that others don`t see a diff) and some folks dislike its, uhm...signature handling qualities (it has just a bit of "recoil" due to its forced rotation).

[Ronkh]

Grow a set



And get a d/a and good polishes and clean that bad boy up

[skibik]

When I bought my Camaro 3 years ago I was by no means a professional detailer and I still am not one. I have used a rotary in the past, learned back in high school 30+ years ago. Used one about 8 years ago to fix my Monte Carlo. When I got this car since it was black I surely did not want to go rotary. I went online did some research and ordered a Griot`s Garage DA. I then found this site and have since learned how to correct the cars paint myself. There is no way I could keep my car looking decent doing it by hand. If you are on a budget the GG 6" is a great deal compared to the more expensive polishers out there. If I compare the money I have put into towels, pads, polishes etc, the money I saved paying someone once or twice a year to do a full detail I have about paid for it all. As long as the products I have don`t go bad I have enough for a few years and a lot of details to come. I can only say don`t get carried away with the latest and greatest items. Take it from someone who has gone overboard on buying just stick to the necesities.

[Ronkh]

As long as the products I have don`t go bad I have enough for a few years and a lot of details to come. I can only say don`t get carried away with the latest and greatest items. Take it from someone who has gone overboard on buying just stick to the necesities.

Don`t buy the latest and greatest???? Now ya tell me after I just got 3 cans of pns (and didn`t use it today)

And only a few years supply ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?


Resistance is futile !

[marlinspike]

marlinspike- Yes indeed, it`s a whole `nother ballgame now that there are so many good Random Orbital polishers out there.

FWIW, a good sure-to-be-safe wheel cleaner is the one Griot`s Garage sells. And speaking of Griot`s, their 6" Random Orbital Polisher is *great*, lifetime warranty too. If I could only have one of my polishers, it`d be that one. The Rupes 21 is superior, but more expensive. The Flex 3401 is a bit more capable (than the Griot`s) with regard to serious correction, but IME it doesn`t finish *quite* as well (note that others don`t see a diff) and some folks dislike its, uhm...signature handling qualities (it has just a bit of "recoil" due to its forced rotation).

I have always used and been pleased with P21S gel. I ran out, and ran to Trak Auto one time, just one time, and one time was all it took! lol...

Right now I`m looking at the Porter Cable vs. the Griot`s. The cost of paying a pro just one time is equal to the cost of buying all the equipment I need to do it myself. Did not expect that.

[Ronkh]

I have always used and been pleased with P21S gel. I ran out, and ran to Trak Auto one time, just one time, and one time was all it took! lol...

Right now I`m looking at the Porter Cable vs. the Griot`s. The cost of paying a pro just one time is equal to the cost of buying all the equipment I need to do it myself. Did not expect that.

And you get a big supply of product that lets you do numerous cars !! And a feeling of accomplishment that is INSANE

Welcome to the addiction

My advice is call Ray tomorrow and have him price match the geek since they got 15% off everything