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  1. #16
    Hooked For Life Bill D's Avatar
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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    It’s major therapy for so many of us here.
    Treat it like it`s the only one in the world.
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  2. #17
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Clarkitect - Welcome to the Forum !

    And thank you for all the time it took to put all that info into a useful format !!! Great job !!!

    I think you have already arrived at the place where Detailing is more of a labor of love than just a chore.. I have had that labor of love part since I was a child doing it..

    If you will please advise us what is the year, make, model, color, of the test subject for this ? That will help us guide you more accurately..
    And if you will also provide the same info for the new van, that will be good too..

    Merry Christmas !
    Dan F

  3. #18

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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Instead of wax maybe cheaper coating. Car pros cquartz products priced well and get great reviews. Also on some of your packages you have waxes and coatings. From what I’ve read wax not best topper for coatings (even in kamikaze I read overcoat over infinity wax). Even if bypassing coating look at comparisons of sio2 sealants vs wax.


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  4. #19

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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    Yes, you`re missing the point of The Rabbit Hole; only the most basic of research needs to be done before diving in blindly, banging your credit card along the side walls as you plummet towards the bottom before thinking "Seemed like a good idea at the time..."

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
    Also believe this was an attempt at levity as if you saw his “hole” It is coated in the blood of one thousand coating bottles. More like a Rabbit Cavern. Although it seems as though he follows his “blind words”. Coating wise he has tried almost literally everything and shares his opinions with the world. Honest and thoughtful you should read some of his posts. Seems like a stand up dude and learned a lot from him and others like him in this forum.


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  5. #20
    Clarkitect's Avatar
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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Pirate View Post
    To the OP, have you look into Poorboys and Chemical Guys products in the Autopia Car Care Store? Great products and great prices to boot. I have some of my products in gallons to save money and they work very well on one`s vehicle. take a look....
    That’s why I have a spreadsheet. Now I can easily add suggested products and do a quick cost/benefit analysis. Thanks for the suggestions, good to hear from the voice of experience.

  6. #21
    Clarkitect's Avatar
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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    I could say a few things but I will just say toss out the Opti-Seal. Besides over the top of Opti-Coat, Opti-Seal is not very durable at all.
    Good to know on the OPT, was having some doubts. Also think going Kamikaze will be overkill. One, for a beginner’s skill level, and two, this isn’t a show car, but a daily working car. Keeping proper expectations of cost/benefit/skill level. I was leaning toward the Gyeon, but was surprised the PolishAngel came in at essentially the same cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    I might have missed it but there will be times when a waterless wash will not be enough and you will have to go with soap and water. Even on a coated vehicle.

    Remember this is supposed to be fun and enjoy yourself. For me half the fun is trying new products.
    Tempted to actually just get two foam sprayers (one for degreaser, one for soap), rather than just using a waterless wash in a compression sprayer. Using something like a 3D Pink Wash or a Chemical Guys HoneyDew Snow Foam. My understanding is the Gyeon Bathe Essence is a full wash soap (just highly concentrated), but maybe I’m under the wrong impression. However, I am a bit skeptical of the Bathe Essence since it seems too good to be true, and if it sounds too good to be true it usually is. Yet the detailing world seems to continue to advance and progress, so trying to keep an open mind with these concentrated products.

  7. #22
    Clarkitect's Avatar
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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishroes View Post
    Keep a good slick coat of wax or sealant on it, or coating, if you go that route, and you’ll be good to go
    Okay, hope I am keeping this straight. Wax is a natural product that covers, but doesn’t bond. Sealant is a synthetic “wax” that bonds to the paint. And a coating is synthetic, bonds to the paint, but has greater longevity than a sealant. The level of skill also increases with each as well as the longevity of the product? So, for the vehicle in mind and the skill level I’m thinking I max out at sealant.

  8. #23
    Clarkitect's Avatar
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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    If you will please advise us what is the year, make, model, color, of the test subject for this ? That will help us guide you more accurately..
    And if you will also provide the same info for the new van, that will be good too..

    Merry Christmas !
    Dan F
    I drive the beigest of beige— an ‘08 tan Nissan Altima (inherited from my mother-in-law, who did order it special with leather seats so can’t complain).

    Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut-7ff17e1e-b823-4a94-9c62-b2a94ac2b464.jpeg

    The Lady’s vehicle is an ‘18 Kia Sedona in platinum graphite.

    Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut-e67775a6-1d1f-4e29-b9c7-a9cc58b0d217.jpeg

    Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut-2a3cce71-9d81-4062-b66c-82715d4a4688.jpeg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut-7ff17e1e-b823-4a94-9c62-b2a94ac2b464.jpeg   Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut-e67775a6-1d1f-4e29-b9c7-a9cc58b0d217.jpeg   Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut-2a3cce71-9d81-4062-b66c-82715d4a4688.jpeg  
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  9. #24
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Perhaps the best way to approach is to break it down a bit and then focus on the specific areas in a `functional` manner. Determine what will best fit your planned needs and desires and then see if recommended `best practices` for each specific area.

    For example, can start with paint protection. What are your primary concerns/needs in this area? Will longevity of suitable good appearance be necessary or are you going to wash weekly regardless (or more often)?

    With a daily driver, what climate do you live in? If a nicer climate, perhaps longevity is not as great a concern as you can refresh year round if necessary and the climate may take less of a toll on the paint. I mention this in consideration of your reference to Polish Angel, which is very easy to use, has an amazing look all its own...but is not the toughest/longest lasting solution out there.

    When looking for LSP, the following are the main considerations in my world but likely different for all:

    `live in NE Ohio so all ny findings/thoughts are based on that climate. The characteristics of a coating that matter most to me are:

    1. Great Self Cleaning Abilities: Our cars see rain and often get rained on in the morning and then sit outside in the sun in the afternoon; don’t like waterspots. I like clean cars but don’t like cleaning cars.

    2. Durability and resistance to environmental contamination like water spots and bird bombs. Don’t wanna have to worry about running home and immediately dealing with removing things that would otherwise etch bare paint. Like hard water spots did to our Corvette during the Zaino years. Also has to last cuz I don’t wanna be hauling out compounds and polishes every Spring, given reasonable maintenance.

    3. Appearance: Well, stuff has to look good. Has to accentuate body lines, curves and hard edges. It needs to make me stop and admire it when walking towards it, walking away from it or catching a glance in the garage when I take out the garbage.

    Have tried a boatload of coatings, watched `em over the course of 20k-40k miles in NE Ohio, variety of vehicle usage and maintenance patterns and that allowed me to choose what works best `for me`.

    My favorite coatings have other, less tangible aspects that add to the overall enjoyment of them but the main attraction is they meet my primary criteria, that being they just plain work.

    Once I had my cars where I want them (Paint, glass, wheels, tires) maintenance going forward is Gyeon Foam, Gyeon Bathe (not Bathe Essence, tried it, did not like it) and some Overcoat occasionally after wash. Takes about 20 minutes per vehicle, 2 of which are black, and leaves only a wash mitt, 2 drying towels and an plusher towel to wash afterwards.

    What I`ve found is that, while initially more time/work to get to the `where I want it point`, going forward is a breeze and cars stay in far, far better condition with very little effort, relatively.

    As far as expense/cost, it does not always pan out that more $$ = better results, product wise...but sometimes it does.

    22ple HPC is one of the best coatings around for limited maintenance usage, the stuff is tough, looks good and lasts a long time and has one of the most bizarrely easy applications of any product I`ve used aside from Polish Angel.

    I first used on a fleet van at work in March 2017. Since that time its piled up over 45k miles, been washed by hand twice, run thru a soap/rinse touchless wash about 4 times but otherwise sits outside 24/7, 365 days a year. I wash/light clay and add a topper once a year but aside from that, rain keeps it looking relatively freshly washed all of the time. It`s a nice, molten glass type of gloss.

    I still use when I get a chance to do a white or metallic crimson vehicle for someone, despite my preference for another coating on my personal cars as it really looks great on those colors and I`m never sure how they will be maintained. Its not cheap at around $170 for 50ml aside from sales but it`s a case of the additional cost being worth it given its overall exceptional performance in my experiences.

    And in the interest of total disclosure, I had a massive spreadsheet worked up when I was deciding between a Rupes or Griots BOSS longthrow polisher. Individual units v combo packages, pad costs, projected sales opportunities around the holidays, parts, reliability predictions, repair costs in the long term, etc. so I`m not always just wingin` it.

    It`s a hobby for me, albeit one that must eventually lead to definitive results, so even the `misses` with regards to purchases teach me someting... and the `hits` sure are fun. However, I can certainly understand that may not be the most practical approach. And, given this great community of Autopians, I can always ship the remainders of anything I have to a wider variety of testers to find out if a product is truly not performing as advertised or if it didnt work for me cuz I was too dumb to use it properly; I think I`m running about 50-50 in that area Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    The journey is just as important as the destination for me...and therein lies the fiscal irresponsibility for me. There are certainly `worse` habits though.
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  10. #25
    Clarkitect's Avatar
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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    Perhaps the best way to approach is to break it down a bit and then focus on the specific areas in a `functional` manner. Determine what will best fit your planned needs and desires and then see if recommended `best practices` for each specific area.

    For example, can start with paint protection. What are your primary concerns/needs in this area? Will longevity of suitable good appearance be necessary or are you going to wash weekly regardless (or more often)?

    With a daily driver, what climate do you live in? If a nicer climate, perhaps longevity is not as great a concern as you can refresh year round if necessary and the climate may take less of a toll on the paint. I mention this in consideration of your reference to Polish Angel, which is very easy to use, has an amazing look all its own...but is not the toughest/longest lasting solution out there.
    Climate is Houston area. No salt and winter driving to contend with, but heat/humidity and heavy rains. Longevity would be nice, but do plan to wash every couple weeks, and can wash year round. Our old van (silver Honda) never got really dirty, but never looked great either. Of course I never really knew how to even wash a car properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    Once I had my cars where I want them (Paint, glass, wheels, tires) maintenance going forward is Gyeon Foam, Gyeon Bathe (not Bathe Essence, tried it, did not like it) and some Overcoat occasionally after wash. Takes about 20 minutes per vehicle, 2 of which are black, and leaves only a wash mitt, 2 drying towels and an plusher towel to wash afterwards.

    What I`ve found is that, while initially more time/work to get to the `where I want it point`, going forward is a breeze and cars stay in far, far better condition with very little effort, relatively.
    This is exactly what I am looking for. Know it will take some effort to get there. So if I’m going to take the effort, I want it to take, so going forward I can do quicker maintenance washes.
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  11. #26

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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Just a suggestion ("unintelligent" or humorous; you decide) :
    Take the "L" out of your Autopian log-on name.
    "Carkitect" , sans the suggested "L", just "sounds" more Autopian (told you it was unintelligent or humorous).

    I will award you the Autopian travelling "Empty Blue Tin of M16 Professional Wax Trophy" for the longest, most technical thread in some time!!! However, maybe it SHOULD go to BudgetPlan1, after all his posts about coatings.
    I am just not sure how we are going to pry it away from longtime Autopian All-Star Kevin Brown`s typing-calloused fingers.
    GB detailer

  12. #27
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkitect View Post
    Climate is Houston area. No salt and winter driving to contend with, but heat/humidity and heavy rains. Longevity would be nice, but do plan to wash every couple weeks, and can wash year round. Our old van (silver Honda) never got really dirty, but never looked great either. Of course I never really knew how to even wash a car properly.



    This is exactly what I am looking for. Know it will take some effort to get there. So if I’m going to take the effort, I want it to take, so going forward I can do quicker maintenance washes.
    Given the climate, color of vehicles and usage I`d suggest (bearing in mind there`s about 100 different ways to skin this cat, all of them equally valid):

    PREP
    Gyeon Iron
    Cobra Clay Mitt
    Gtechniq Panel Wipe

    POLISH:
    HD/3D One (have not used yet but seems to get good reviews)
    Griots 6" DA
    6 Lake Country Flat pads - Orange
    6 Lake Country Flat pads - White

    PROTECTION
    If ya wanna do something about every 6 months, Polish Angel Master Sealant topped monthly with Polish Angel Rapidwaxx

    If you wanna coat for the long term, 22ple HPC topped with 22ple VS1 Final Coat monthly

    WHEELS
    Gyeon Rim is nice, does very well, reasonably priced. Kamikaze Stance is double the price but applies easiest of any I have used and has lasted the longest. May be overkill given your climate though.

    TIRES
    TuffShine Cleaner and Tire Coating kit. Bit if work initially to clean things for application but once done, solid and easy to refresh every couple of months if you want. I hate wheel and tire cleaning so I`ll spend some $$ and time avoiding frequent interaction with my tires and wheels...just too messy to deal with frequently so I want `one and done` for the longest haul possible.

    GLASS
    Gyeon View is nice, cost effective. Found Aquapel cheap, easy and effective but never rode it long enough to see true longevity so that may be a possibility as well.

    MAINTENANCE
    Gyeon Bathe and if you go pressure washer/foam cannon Gyeon Foam does well for me. Whole pressure washer/foam cannon is a matter of opinion but with black cars, I prefer caution (if it`s relatively easy, that is)

    Griots PFM or similar twisted loop drying towel although I will use Rag Company Platinum Pluffle at times.

    That`s just off the top of my head based on what I`ve used and read favorably about, exterior wise. I`m a complete incompetant regarding interiors so best advice I`ll leave to others.

    These are the things I`ve found to make keeping my personal cars clean with a minimum of effort and i certainly wont say its the `best` but it seems to work for me.

    YMMV
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  13. #28

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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    You’re taking this way to seriously! I’ve been in business detailing for 20 years now and my recommendations to newbies is find one brand that has all the products in one kit. This will get you from start to finish and at a less expensive outlay. As you gain experience you can add on products. Just my opinion?

  14. #29
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    You have been researching and are all over the place.

    Best to always keep it simple.

    My first question is do you want to use a wax, sealant or ceramic coating for protection? A coating require more prep work and will often last longer than a wax or sealant. It will come down to personal preference. I have not used a sealant in years as I have migrated over to coatings.

    From your list of products I would not recommend Bathe Essence, Gyeon Syncro, Opti-Seal. They are not strong performers. I would look at alternatives for these. Budget gave you a nice option for a coating.

    You have many options to choose from and you will get a lot of recommendations.


    You have many options when it comes to polishes. The products available today are very good. I would skip on hyper compound. Read too many post on here and social media that it does not finish well.

    3D One works well. It is quite versatile. It does have a chemical scent so if you are sensitive to smells then it may be an issue. Or wear a mask when using it. I found it to be pretty potent to my sense of smell. But it did work well.

    If you wish to stay within the 3D line they have their HD Cut and Polish.

    The new Meguiar`s M110 and M210 are pretty good.

    Sonax Cut Max and Sonax Perfect Finish or EX 04-06 are another good option.

    Optimum Hyper Polish is one of the nicest polishes. Leaves a very nice finish.

    The list goes on.

    Seeing as you are getting a GG6 DA, you have the option of getting into their polishing creams and pads.

    If you are looking for towels then the Rag Company Edgeless 300 is a good option for coating, wax or sealant removal. The edgeless 365 is great for compounds, polishes and prep wipes.
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  15. #30
    rlmccarty2000's Avatar
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    Re: Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkitect View Post
    Okay, hope I am keeping this straight. Wax is a natural product that covers, but doesn’t bond. Sealant is a synthetic “wax” that bonds to the paint. And a coating is synthetic, bonds to the paint, but has greater longevity than a sealant. The level of skill also increases with each as well as the longevity of the product? So, for the vehicle in mind and the skill level I’m thinking I max out at sealant.
    We wish it was that easy. Manufacturers use the term “wax” to include synthetics also. Many “waxes” have zero carnauba (or natural) waxes in them. Many “waxes” contain both carnauba and a synthetic component for durability. A pure sealant will (most of the time) last longer than a carnauba wax. They both bond to the paint. Both a sealant and a wax are applied the same way, same skill set for both. A coating lasts longer than a sealant due to using different polymers that cross link and bond tighter to the surface and contain SiO2 for hardness (this does not apply to all coatings). When you step up to a coating more skill is necessary, but it is still not rocket science. Clear as mud right?

    I would suggest skipping the pure carnauba waxes to begin with due to their lack of durability.

    Two of the forum favorite sealants are Collinite 845 and FinishKare 1000p and almost everyone here has one or both of them. They are inexpensive and long lasting and a great choice for the detailing novice.
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