New here - Question regarding Lighting

[Wreckage]

Hello,

I have just finished a certification with a professional meguiars certified paint correction specialist.

I am in process of buying equipment/pads/polishes etc.

The only thing I haven`t got yet is lighting.

Now, to give you a bit of idea as to how I will be operating, may give you idea how to respond as to what I would actually need.

I will be doing mobile correction. So either at peoples places that own garages, or, at a show room that imports cars that I have spoken with to do some work for them as well.


At peoples places, the garage would be pretty dark, so any kind of light would be bright enough (I assume). On other hand, in the show room, there are those heat lights (big silver hanging things that take time to heat up before they are bright) and they look purply/white. There in big factories. They provide a lot of light, however, on sides of cars you still get the shadows.


Having said this... I read up the best color light is between 5000K-6500K scientifically because all the colors of the color spectrum are in that range (White), thus all imperfections in a colors surface would be shown compare to say a yellow light (Halogen) that ranges around the 3000-3500K mark.

So what is my problem?

There are these if you may please look that I found I can get:

Arlec 1000W Halogen Worklight With Tripod I/N 7070522 | Bunnings Warehouse

Iron Horse 55W Twin Worklight I/N 7070617 | Bunnings Warehouse

Iron Horse 300W - 1200W Twin Oval Halogen Worklight I/N 7070613 | Bunnings Warehouse


Having a look at all those....

Halogens seem to light up much more than fluorescent lights. They seem brighter and travel further. However, Halogens are not in the 5000K light range.

In a garage (being a mobile detailer) perhaps the fluorescent lights will be bright enough. On the box it says that when both are on, they are equivalent to the brightness of a 560 watt halogen.

The other stand has 2 halogen bulbs in the 1 casing. So I can essentially run a 300 watt bulb and a 150 watt bulb. Switch on 1 switch the other off. That way I essentially got 4 lights. However, because they all require the long halogen bulb, there isnt much choice in what you get and it is quite yellow. The ultra white bulb that I can get only comes in the 300 watt. So its either run 2 per housing, 600 watt or 1 single bulb, 300 watts. They are at 3500K color.


So... previously stated, in a dark shed, perhaps I dont need 500 watts (this is what im trying to ask you guys) and maybe those fluorescent lights will be best, as they are 5000k color spectrum, and being 560 watts (when both turned on) might be enough light. Remembering they do not travel far, but the color is right and in a dark room it might be perfect. On other hand, in the showroom where they have those hanging lights in the factory... I dont think the fluorescent lights will do anything because they need to be equal brightness or more to not get shut out by the brighter light... however, it is shining on the side of the car where the car is not lighted up from the hanging lights... so it may work.


A 500 watt halogen is 16,000 Lumens... the fluorescent lights are nowhere near that.

Anyway, what should I be getting, what is enough, what is overkill? Id I had the 500 watt halogens... would I be running both (total of 1000) or just the one?

Am I better off running 2x 250 halogens (to get 500) or a single 500... what does running 2 lights on both sides of the stand achieve vs just running one? Do you guys even run 2 at a time or just a single 1 is all I need?

The other option I got was, use the halogens, and for final inspection use a hand held fluorescent light to go over the car just to check I didn`t leave any swirling/webbing on the car.

I have not been able to find anything with 10,000 lumens (or something as strong as halogens) in the 5000k color spectrum...

So what are your thoughts? What do I need, what is too much, what is not enough... mobile detailing, Need my own light stand. Some work done in dark (perhaps fluros enough), other work done in a bright show room (maybe fluros not enough)... ????

Thanks for the help, much appreciated as I need to get these things this coming week.

[XxBoostinxX]

You mention halogen and fluorescent. Why not LED? For the amount of light you are wanting it will be much cooler temperature wise. It would also be closer to your 5000k spectrum that you are wanting. I have seen some guys that are running a photography light stands with dual lamp outlets and putting two large spotlight LED bulbs on them. There is a thread running around here somewhere on how to do it and all the parts are off amazon. I have been meaning to just haven`t gotten the chance.

Now with that being said, this is what I would do....I would run that photo stand to spot the area of the car I am working on and then I would buy the large husky led worklight (or any other) to light up my entire work area if I need it.

Maybe this will fit your needs, maybe it won`t. You won`t really know until you really start playing with lights and figure out what you like and dislike. I personally hate halogen. They are too hot for polishing and sometimes I end up getting burned when moving them (lol). Maybe buy a cheap halogen 500w for around $15 and one of the small husky brand LEDs for $30 to play with. Home Depot always accepts returns .

[mnehls86]

You mention halogen and fluorescent. Why not LED? For the amount of light you are wanting it will be much cooler temperature wise. It would also be closer to your 5000k spectrum that you are wanting. I have seen some guys that are running a photography light stands with dual lamp outlets and putting two large spotlight LED bulbs on them. There is a thread running around here somewhere on how to do it and all the parts are off amazon. I have been meaning to just haven`t gotten the chance.

LED`s are the way to go. Below is the thread on what to get.

Finally a comprehensive review of the best bulbs out there...

[Wreckage]

Hey, I considered the LED work lights.

Iron Horse 32W 80 LED Twin Worklight With Tripod I/N 7071000 | Bunnings Warehouse

The Iron Horse 2 X 40 LED Worklight With Tripod features a cool to touch, durable die cast aluminium housing and twist-lock telescopic tripod.

Providing a high intensity, even light distribution, its heavy duty tubural steel tripod extends up to 1.7 metres.

Cool to touch durable die cast aluminium housing
32W LED array (80 LED modules)
Easy twist lock telescopic tripod
Provides high intensity even light distribution
Heavy duty tubular steel tripod (max height 1.7m)


The problem is... LED lights are SOOOOOOO not bright, that It is hard to even see them working in a room that has lights on already.

I initially wanted LED due to the cooler running factor, 5000K light spectrum.. but when I switched them on in a dark room, next to a 500W halogen... the LED light made some light, (very directional) the Halogen, when switched on, lighted up the entire room in comparison.

If LED`s were brighter, like 10,000 Lumens or more (like the halogens) then yeah it would make sense, no?

How close are those lights to the car there?

Would that work in a showroom that already has a whole stack of those Heated lights lighting up the place?

The link i provided, is that strong enough, or do I need a different type of LEd light? What about the fact that LED`s (ones with many LED bulbs) provides the issue of shadow?

How tall does the Work Light Stand need to be able to go?

I would have thought 2 meters, otherwise, how do you see the roof of the car... and even at 2 meters it would be coming down on a angle like 10-20 degrees. Any input on this?

I also found this:

DIY LED Work Light (much better than halogen!) - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum

Being in Australia... where can I buy a light stand, that can then be turned into something like that?

I am not understanding this at all.

[mjlinane]

Welcome to Autopia!!

For correction, I find LED headlamps (70+ lumen) to be extremely helpful.

[House of Wax]

LED`s are the way to go. Below is the thread on what to get.

Finally a comprehensive review of the best bulbs out there...

This is the route I went went for my correction light and it works awesome

[TumbleWeed]

Hey wreckage…. the LED`s that you posted above are the wrong kinda LED`s you want to be using for paint correction imvle….

Those particular LED`s have a cluster or a bunch of smaller LED`s in it and will wash out the area you are trying to light up and therefore you won`t be able to see the scratches & marring as easily as you would using an LED with a "Single" diode or single LED in it.


Here are a couple pics to show you the difference……. The one on the left is the one you want.


HD has these for half the price as the one you posted above….. check them out!

PowerSmith 40-Watt (3000 Lumens) LED Dual-Head Work Light with Tripod-PWL2140T - The Home Depot


Otherwise check this thread out over at AGO…..

DIY LED Work Light (much better than halogen!) - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum

[XxBoostinxX]

Hey, I considered the LED work lights.

Iron Horse 32W 80 LED Twin Worklight With Tripod I/N 7071000 | Bunnings Warehouse

The Iron Horse 2 X 40 LED Worklight With Tripod features a cool to touch, durable die cast aluminium housing and twist-lock telescopic tripod.

Providing a high intensity, even light distribution, its heavy duty tubural steel tripod extends up to 1.7 metres.

Cool to touch durable die cast aluminium housing
32W LED array (80 LED modules)
Easy twist lock telescopic tripod
Provides high intensity even light distribution
Heavy duty tubular steel tripod (max height 1.7m)


The problem is... LED lights are SOOOOOOO not bright, that It is hard to even see them working in a room that has lights on already.

I initially wanted LED due to the cooler running factor, 5000K light spectrum.. but when I switched them on in a dark room, next to a 500W halogen... the LED light made some light, (very directional) the Halogen, when switched on, lighted up the entire room in comparison.

If LED`s were brighter, like 10,000 Lumens or more (like the halogens) then yeah it would make sense, no?

How close are those lights to the car there?

Would that work in a showroom that already has a whole stack of those Heated lights lighting up the place?

The link i provided, is that strong enough, or do I need a different type of LEd light? What about the fact that LED`s (ones with many LED bulbs) provides the issue of shadow?

How tall does the Work Light Stand need to be able to go?

I would have thought 2 meters, otherwise, how do you see the roof of the car... and even at 2 meters it would be coming down on a angle like 10-20 degrees. Any input on this?

I also found this:

DIY LED Work Light (much better than halogen!) - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum

Being in Australia... where can I buy a light stand, that can then be turned into something like that?

I am not understanding this at all.

The link you provided on Autogeek is the one I was talking about. Those bulbs are around 1700-2500 lumen each. I don`t think it`s so much the lumen output that is helping see the swirls as much as the color spectrum it is putting out and how the light is directed. Those LED bulbs have less light output, but direct (spot) the light to one particular area. Then that area will be highlighted. The halogens are producing 10,000 lumens as a "flood", which is all over the place and not to one spot. Make more sense?

I understand you want a large amount of light. But I think if you get too much light it will also begin to wash out the swirls in certain paint colors. I have a DIY sun gun that I made and on some paint it is entirely too bright. So you will have to find a happy medium that works on a wide range of paints. Brighter is not always better.

I believe you are wanting the best of both worlds in one lamp, but I`m not sure it is possible. I think for what you want you will need two work lights. One flooding work light you can turn on for your work area and one spot light to be your swirl finder. I don`t think you can get what you are wanting from one particular light.

[Bunky]

I use a Fenix headlamp. It also works great when vacuuming interiors to see under seats.

[XxBoostinxX]

I use a Fenix headlamp. It also works great when vacuuming interiors to see under seats.

Which one Bunky? I have a headlamp, but it`s not bright enough for to show swirls.

I bought a foursevens preon 2 to be my new swirl light: Preon P2 Gen2, Black - Foursevens.com. For 192 lumens and $50, i couldn`t resist.

[Accumulator]

IME it`s not so much about brightness as the TYPE of illumination (you want "point-source"). As noted, lights can even be too bright, washing out light marring especially on metallics. And IME the "color" doesn`t really matter for this either; I`ve done fine with "warm" incandescents and other types of light at the other/"blue-white" end of the range.

Whatever you use, it`ll take a fair bit of time/effort to get the illumination/viewing angles and distances just right for a given situation. Just gotta experiment.

And turn out all the other lights so the inspection lighting is the only source of light. That`s why you can see that "otherwise invisible" marring in certain nighttime situations.

[Wreckage]

Thanks for the feedback.

So the big light is more or less used to see where im going inside the otherwise dark garage while spot lights LED single diod are there to shine on the section i work on. Sounds like I cant have a light that illuminates the whole car but something I must constantly move around as i go from section to section.

Im convinced enough to get LED over halogens.

Question is then, where can i buy a tripod without the lights that come with it? N not something over seas but right here in Au?

Are the round spot lights posted above from autogeek all single diod?
Also:

Since i am in a showroom dealership, big hanging heat lights... i cant switch them off. Will the LED light still work, at least
for the sides of the car?

Also how tall does the stand need to be able to extend? -how do i work the roof of the car, lighting wise?

And last - do you guys use some sort of step ladder then lean forward onto the car so that you can reach the middle of the roof? I find my whole body leans on the car to be able to stretch over to middle and a step ladder needed. Is that fine? Would you do roof first in that case, then hood, fenders, doors, quarters, rear boot/trunk lid?

[XxBoostinxX]

Thanks for the feedback.

So the big light is more or less used to see where im going inside the otherwise dark garage while spot lights LED single diod are there to shine on the section i work on. Sounds like I cant have a light that illuminates the whole car but something I must constantly move around as i go from section to section.

Im convinced enough to get LED over halogens.

Question is then, where can i buy a tripod without the lights that come with it? N not something over seas but right here in Au?

Are the round spot lights posted above from autogeek all single diod?
Also:

Since i am in a showroom dealership, big hanging heat lights... i cant switch them off. Will the LED light still work, at least
for the sides of the car?

Also how tall does the stand need to be able to extend? -how do i work the roof of the car, lighting wise?

And last - do you guys use some sort of step ladder then lean forward onto the car so that you can reach the middle of the roof? I find my whole body leans on the car to be able to stretch over to middle and a step ladder needed. Is that fine? Would you do roof first in that case, then hood, fenders, doors, quarters, rear boot/trunk lid?

Yes, you will constantly have to move the worklight. It`s sounds like a PITA, but it`s really not that bad.

I`m not sure if those bulbs from the Autogeek link are single or multiple diode. Look for 10-20 degree par 38 LED floodlights bulbs. 10 degree are more ideal, but my 20 degree do just fine.

I`m not sure where you can get it in Australia. But I can provide what you need to look for.

I would start by trying to find a photography store for these:
1)Cowboy Studio Top Quality Aluminum Adjustable Light Stand with Case:Amazon:Camera & Photo
*Can extend up to 9 feet tall.

2)Fancierstudio DOUBLE AC Flash Light Stand Swivel Mount with Umbrella holder By Fancierstudio E27 Double:Amazon:Camera & Photo

And a hardware store for something like this:
FEIT LED PAR38 90 Watt Equal Spotlight | 20PAR38/LEDG5| PAR38/5K/LEDG5 | EarthLED.com

To reach the top of a vehicle you need a Werner step ladder:
Werner, 39-1/2 in. x 12 in. x 20-9/16 in. Aluminum Work Platform, AP-20 at The Home Depot - Mobile

Remember, this is what works for me. It may be different for what works for you or the next person. You just need to experiment some.

[Accumulator]

So the big light is more or less used to see where im going inside the otherwise dark garage while spot lights LED single diod are there to shine on the section i work on. Sounds like I cant have a light that illuminates the whole car but something I must constantly move around as i go from section to section.

Generally speaking (there are always exceptions..), that`s correct.

Im convinced enough to get LED over halogens.

Back to that "always exceptions" stuff....hard to say yes/no in a definitive way. My first experiments with LEDs were failures.

Question is then, where can i buy a tripod without the lights that come with it? N not something over seas but right here in Au?

Maybe buy a cheap light and only use its tripod.

Since i am in a showroom dealership, big hanging heat lights... i cant switch them off. Will the LED light still work, at least
for the sides of the car?

That will make it trickier, but 1) we`re kinda extreme here at Autopia, you might not need to get things truly "Autopian perfect" for your situation, and 2) try different things and I bet you`ll come up with something satisfactory.

Note that I keep getting back to that "spend a lot of time/effort experimenting"...just no way around it IMO.

Also how tall does the stand need to be able to extend? -how do i work the roof of the car, lighting wise?

I like options, but sometimes you can see things OK if the light is at a rather sharp angle. Roofs of SUVs are a challenge! Roofs of cars, not so much- most "halogen on tripod" type setups will work OK.

And last - do you guys use some sort of step ladder then lean forward onto the car so that you can reach the middle of the roof? I find my whole body leans on the car to be able to stretch over to middle and a step ladder needed. Is that fine? Would you do roof first in that case, then hood, fenders, doors, quarters, rear boot/trunk lid?

Eh, I can`t get links to work on this PC...I use work platforms. Try researching this to get an idea- Bauer 20900 Fold-N-Carry Work Platform. I have five such units, one Bauer and four from, uhm....gee, I forget, probably Werner although they don`t seem to list the ones I have any more. I DO NOT like the smaller ones that others think are OK, but I guess they`d be better than nothing if you put some friction media on them so they don`t get slippery when wet.

[XxBoostinxX]

Note that I keep getting back to that "spend a lot of time/effort experimenting"...just no way around it IMO.

Totally agree with this. You have to eventually just try something.