New here - Question regarding Lighting

[Wreckage]

Hey Guys,

I found a place here that does LED lights. I bought some off them.

The lights (lenses in front) are 1.5 Inch. So they are pretty small and they cost a whole bunch with the tripod (near $300).

However, I tested them outside while the sun was on the car, and from 1 meter away you could still see the `white` color on the car off the Light. They are apparently 1000 Lumens but they seem brighter than other places that say 1400 Lumen.

Either way, what I wanted to ask was this as my car is Silver so it is pretty hard to see anything anyway (especially in the day time).

What I noticed is this... the spot light provides a nice bright white section on the car, maybe 8-10" in diameter from about 1 Meter away. But where I see the swirl marks is not in any of that white light that has illuminated the vehicle, but rather in the actual reflection of the light itself (a little half inch spot where you see the LED light in the cars reflection).

It is in the reflection of the light itself that I see the webbing etc, which is just a small half inch circle (due to light being 1.5" only in diameter). Is that normal or is that normal for a silver car?

Am I supposed to see webbing in more spots than just the actual reflection, like am I mean to see it in all of the light produced on the car? (Which is more than half n inch!)....

If it is only going to show up in the reflection of the light itself on the vehicle... then wouldn`t those big square LED Flood flights be better as they will provide a MUCH larger `reflected` spot of the light itself as it is larger? In which case bigger is better, not brighter is better... ???

Hope you get what I am trying to ask here.

This is the light I got: ML10

I got the spot-light version of the flood and 1 flood. The flood light also only shows up the webbing in the actual reflection of the light itself, not anything around it. I can return these for others if no good... Just gives you an idea.

I mean if its only going to show up in the reflection of the LED light and not the light surrounding the vehicle... is it not then better to get one of those wide lights that have like 10 LED bulbs as that will produce 10 LED reflections on the paint surface and around each 1 of those reflection swirl marks will be visible (since it has nothing to do with the light on the car)...

So this is what I am trying to gauge.... also have a look at what else they got if there is anything there you would recommend I get instead of what I have or whatever.

Much appreciated

[Accumulator]

wreckage- Don`t worry about what`s "supposed" to happen, go by what works for *you*. Although I dunno if anybody can really talk with authority without actually being there, IMO it sounds like maybe you`re using a light that`s *too* bright.

And no, I wouldn`t expect for a "broader" light to be better than a more concentrated "point-source" type.

Same ol` same ol`...just gotta keep messing around, experimenting. On colors like white and silver it`s simply a tough row to hoe and it takes as much time and effort as it takes. I`ve been fanatically inspecting silver for decades and it`s still a PIA.

[Wreckage]

I see.

Well, this was a picture posted on the first page: IMG_20140913_092112_071.jpg Photo by mdnwrathchild | Photobucket

See how the webbing is visible only around the reflection of the actual light itself though that light is lighting up a lot more than that central spot. So in that picture, there are 2 spot lights set up and webbing seen around the reflection of the 2 lights.

Since that is seeming how it works... why not have a long light such as the first pic here: worklights

That will provide more of those white spot reflections on the car, which means more stuff visible without having to move around so much. Since the webbing is only around the relfection itself, a light like that would be like having 5 or 6 lights side by side.... wouldn`t that be good? It would provide 6 (or how ever many lights there are in the Lamp) white spots on the car, which shows up webbing around each one...?

[Wreckage]

print screen

Questions asked in the photo itself. Please try answer that, if at all possible, someone give me a picture of what they get so I can see the difference and visually understand.

[Accumulator]

I..Since that is seeming how it works... why not have a long light such as the first pic here: worklights..?

If that uses LEDs it might work, otherwise it won`t give the "point source" effect.

Heh heh, I can`t help but think that you`re trying to make a tough, time-consuming job into something it`s just *not*, but far be it from me to be sooo negative that I stiffle what might be a very productive search for a better mousetrap. I really do hope you find something that simplifies this, and maybe something like that will do the trick.

As I`ve probably (make that "undoubtedly"!) posted before, most of the time I just turn out the other shop lights and rely on ceiling-mounted incandescents for the horizontal surfaces. I have an old-school-style incandescent trouble light (conical aluminum shade, spring-clamp for its grip) that I use in conjunction with my cheap old halogens. I seldom need to get out the SunGun as holograms just aren`t an issue (because I don`t use a rotary). So I`m basically getting by just fine with `80s (and earlier) tech. But hey, that`s just me and I`ve been chasing marring on these tough colors for decades.

[Wreckage]

I guess in the short which I am trying to ask and do not feel I got a direct answer for was:

Can I get lights, that, will show up the webbing etc (as in picture) across the entire panel not just the spot where the light bulb is being reflected?

So get a light, turn it on, and entire door, or entire fender, or rear quarter etc shows up all the scratches throughout entire panel. Is there anything that can do that, or, does light not work like this and thus I cant just switch something on to show up webbing etc in the entire panel... which would then mean, what I posted in picture is how all the lights will basically work. ?

[Accumulator]

I guess in the short which I am trying to ask and do not feel I got a direct answer for was:

Can I get lights, that, will show up the webbing etc (as in picture) across the entire panel not just the spot where the light bulb is being reflected?

So get a light, turn it on, and entire door, or entire fender, or rear quarter etc shows up all the scratches throughout entire panel. Is there anything that can do that, or, does light not work like this and thus I cant just switch something on to show up webbing etc in the entire panel... which would then mean, what I posted in picture is how all the lights will basically work. ?

Thanks for clarifying, distilling it down that way makes it easier to give a more direct answer, though probably not the answer you`d like!

Answer- No.

IME, you often have to work areas smaller than a full panel, at least on certain of the "tricky" paints. I often have to move the light/reposition myself/etc. over and over and over in the course of correcting a panel, or even one section of a panel.

Somebody else, in a different setting, with different tools and/or a different (more efficient!) approach might be able to do it the way you were hoping, but I can`t. I sometimes think I can, but I always end up finding some residual marring that I didn`t spot the first time around.

[Wreckage]

Thanks for clarifying, distilling it down that way makes it easier to give a more direct answer, though probably not the answer you`d like!

Answer- No.

IME, you often have to work areas smaller than a full panel, at least on certain of the "tricky" paints. I often have to move the light/reposition myself/etc. over and over and over in the course of correcting a panel, or even one section of a panel.

Somebody else, in a different setting, with different tools and/or a different (more efficient!) approach might be able to do it the way you were hoping, but I can`t. I sometimes think I can, but I always end up finding some residual marring that I didn`t spot the first time around.

Hi,

I got one last question...

The LED lights i got. One is spot light one is flood light. On yellow, silver etc cars it seems thr flood light works better for spotting problems because the light is spread thus not too bright. The spot light, same power, is a lot brighter and makes a very bright white spot on car which kinda makes it not as good as the flood (or more distance is needed as the flood is spread so appears not as bright)

Having said that... when i used the spot light on a black car. Was an old chevy hot rod... the light just disappeared. I mean this extremely bright/too bright LED light for other colors was hardly even visible on the black car. I moved the light right next to the car and I could hardly see the reflection, stuck it on a white surface and you go blind looking at it, stick it on black and its as though the light broke.

What am i asking?

Was something wrong with my light, was it just going dimmer as i moved from one color car to the next OR does black paint do that to light and i would probably need something brighter for black cars than even this light?

So basically, do i need a brighter light for black cars and less bright for other colors?

[Accumulator]

Wreckage- That`s great how you`re experimenting like that! I think the answer is simply that you`re discovering how "one size does NOT fit all" What`s just right on one paint is too bright (washout, dazzle, etc.) on another. Nothing wrong with the light, some colors/paints just "soak up" light that way (e.g., dark single stage is very different from basecoat/clearcoat).

Sometimes a "too bright" light is OK if you move the light back from the surface (e.g., the sun) or even just shine it at a different angle. I sometimes get my wife to hold the light (varying its position) while I move around trying to find the right viewing angle.

[Paintxpert]

Any simple hand held shop light can divulge the integrity of the correction efforts. While lighting is very important, you don`t have to break the bank. Wheel marks and poor polishing can be seen by pulling the car out into sun light. I know there are some expensive lights sold here, I respectfully put it in the category of the paint depth gauge. But your enthusiasm cant be denied, many detailers I have seen could care less if they can see. Pulling the car out in day light is a fright. Keep up the commitment to excellence, it is a journey that will reward you 40 years from now!!!! Paintxpert Search: Auto Polishing!

[Wreckage]

Thanks for the replies.

I played around a bit more and found out why flood lights are not that good (for me). Basically, on darker cars you can not even tell where the light is shining on the vehicle, so you have to lose time mucking around looking for where the light is pointing (inconvenient). Also I found on cars like Aston Martin`s, the rear quarters have a curved off side to them... with the flood light you cant just point it direction on the curved edge. With spot light you can and then you can work around the edge (bottom side) as the light is exactly where you need it to be. So I have found in the end the spot lights to be more convenient as you can put the light where you want and then work around the bright spot (on the edges of it cause in the middle of the bright spot you can not see anything). So basically I can put the light spot on the side of the section I want to work on rather than directly on it (work towards the spot light on car)

So what I have done is sent the flood light back and got another spot light so that I have 2 of these `really` bright lights. Basically if I keep the light at a distance on yellows/reds etc, it is ok, kinda shine it on 1 spot and work towards it. I put the Light stand say at the door of the car point at the fender (above the wheel) and then work from the headlight towards the top of the wheel where the light is shining, then move the light stand further back so the shining light moves closer to the door and keep working towards it... that way I see the scratches etc that are on the outskirts of the bright light and thus I don`t miss anything. Looking at it on an angle really helps a lot.

On black car.. I can turn 2 spot lights on and make them shine on the 1 spot. That should be bright enough for black as well then. I also found that my light was good enough (as I went to check a second time), I just had to sit on the angle for it to reveal what I needed.

I want to do the job right because for me, I am not going to get paid to do half-arsed work. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It either gets done right, or don`t even start.

Regarding taking it in the sun, the training I did I was told you never do this stuff outside because wind etc will blow stuff onto the car. If you can not paint-correct indoors, then do not even bother starting on the vehicle. All I can see is, use lights, do what you think is done, then take it outside to have a `final inspection` of the vehicle and see if satisfied with the job. If yes, then final inspect spray the car (meguiars) and hand it over.

[Accumulator]

The whole "pull it into the sun" can be problematic...weather, environmental conditions, and time-of-day don`t always cooperate, that`s why I finally wrote the check for the SunGun.

Wreckage- It sounds like you`re making good progress toward finding what works for you. Remember to try altering your viewing angle too; I often get down on a creeper and inspect from a weird/low angle.

Oh, and while I do like M34 to help remove compound residue, I don`t like it for a final wipedown. Not hating on it, I`ve used it since forever and really like the scent. I just never think it`s the right choice any more for post-polishing/pre-LSP, or for final post-LSP, wipedowns. Eh, that`s just me...if you like it that`s what counts.