Carpet Cleaning/Extraction

**Yamaha0219** · 10-21-2011, 06:59 PM

I had an incident with my boat about a month ago, it started to sink but we were able to save it before it went down. We ended up having to leave it at the marina so we were not able to try and dry anything out ourselves...fast forward to now, all the paperwork is done but the boat has sat at the marina since the day the interior got damp with no attempts to dry it out.

Here you can see a shot of the water after we started pumping out, the water was up to the cushions (right cushion was wet, left one was dry). Underneath the cushions there are storage wells which are carpeted as well.

Insurance says that this issue can get resolved just from a cleaning, they`re not willing to pay to get a new interior put in. What`re your thoughts on this? The only tool I have at my disposal is a Bissel little green machine. Is there someone more appropriate than a detailer I should take this too...someone like Servpro? I`m not sure if mildew has began to grow on the carpet, and I`m worried about mildew growing on the headliner as a result of all the moisture.

Thoughts, input, anything, I`m kind of at a loss.....

**David Fermani** · 10-21-2011, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Yamaha0219

IInsurance says that this issue can get resolved just from a cleaning, they`re not willing to pay to get a new interior put in. What`re your thoughts on this?

.....

Sounds like your insurance company isn`t doing the right thing here? I`d ask THEM what they`d recommend! If you attempt to clean it incorrectly or not to their specs, they could use that against you down the road. They need to pay anything over your deductible for this loss. That means making paying to return your boat to the condition it was in prior to this loss. Your duty is to minimize futher damage(vac up the water), their duty is to prescribe/assist with the remediation of the problem.

**TLMitchell** · 10-21-2011, 07:46 PM

Components in boats are expected to get wet. Many are pretreated or made of appropriate materials with that expectation in mnd. You probably ought to consult the owner of the marina on their experiences in this regard and if there`s any doubt in your mind of the outcome have the work professionally done. Frankly, if it was me and insurance was involved I`d have it done by an appropriate professional anyway. It gives you some recourse if there`s an unsatisfactory result or ramifications in the future.

TL

**Ron Ketcham** · 10-21-2011, 07:50 PM

David, EXACTLY! put.

Much as when many wish to remove the transit wrap from a new vehicle themselves.

The dealer receives a "pre-delivery" fee for their work.

If they don`t do that work, there is a questionable issue.

Was the damage to the paint or trim work done by them, which would be covered under a "dealer/factory warranty", or is it covered under the "owners warranty" as laid out in the owners manual?

Been through this many, many times while still working and our ValuGard Auto Processing Centers, where we did 12,000+ new car preps, each year, for dealers in the Cincinnati area.

Took some work of working with the factory reps, etc, and for them to understand that our facility was more than qualified to do the "cosmetic" work, much more than the dealers people.

They found it necessary to modify their policies regarding this issue.

Grumpy

**Bill D** · 10-21-2011, 08:27 PM

Grumpy

I know many Autopians would have issue with the dealer doing the pre delivery wrap removal and maybe some would even try to arrange paying the dealer that fee themselves in exchange for letting them do it themselves. Maybe some high end dealers would be an exception. I removed the wrap at a Mercedes dealer. They just watched me do it but otherwise maybe many of us would have to order a car from the Cincinnati area. At least Valugard might be doing the removal. I`m just stating the extreme but the fact that dealers mostly remove the wrap due to receiving a fee is kinda

**Ron Ketcham** · 10-21-2011, 08:49 PM

What many do here is not "real world", as most are aware.

A tiny swirl or such is not a big deal to most new car purchasers, of which is around 12,000,000 a year in the USA.

"Does it run, does it start and stop, am I able to go from point A to point B, how much is the payment or lease and can I afford the monthly fee", is how the majority of new and used vehicle buyers think.

They really don`t care unless there is a "glaring" concern staring them in the face.

Then came "modern marketing", then came TV and then the internet, and then a small percentage of the buying public started to require their "vehicle" to be delivered to them that looked as good as on the printed page or the tv commerical.

As the "media", be it electronic or printed grew and became an everyday part of creating "expectations" for the purchasers, companies that were already there, saw the future to sell a lot more products.

In the old days, back when 90% of those who are on the forum were not even born, a can of Simoniz Paste Wax or Johnson`s Paste wax was the product they purchased, Mequiar`s was one of the first to move from "professional product sales" to consumer as well.

All one has to do is look back in the history of "car care products", gee, we had the afore mentioned, and we had DuPont selling some items, Turtle Wax came into the market, etc, etc.

Today, we see so many "This is the greatest thing since sliced bread-buy it=try it" marketing using the modern net to build a small group of believers who then go on the net and tell everyone in their circle of buddies to "try it-cause I used it, tested it, and it is great!".

Very few individual`s who make such claims were lucky to have got a C in Chemistry in high school, let alone remember the elements that make up the table of elements.

One year of successful marketing this way, can make such companies a lot of money.

They don`t produce any product, they have blenders take a product off their formula list, design a great label, slogan, good graphics, come up with some "inspiring words of wisdom on how great, etc" and market the hell out of it for a short time.

Been done since the original "super polymer sealants of the 70`s"

Aura, etc, etc did this in the late 80`s, even today, infomercials are selling millions of dollars of "not so great" products to the public. Not all are bad, but to most part, yeah, "markeing wins the dollar of the consumer".

How many on here, have bought for these marketing reasons and have the almost full bottle, setting on the shelf in their garage??

I would bet that more, than most would admit to.

Grumpy

PS, now that I have started a flame, watch others flame it to a forest fire as they justify their decisions, purchases, etc

**Yamaha0219** · 10-21-2011, 08:56 PM

To be honest I think I`m getting pretty screwed, so I have a feeling I will be fighting with insurance...I`ll give you guys the quick version of the story for those interested.

Day we realized boat was sinking, marina owner came over and had nothing positive to say until there was possible money in it for him (we needed a tow to the ramp so I could put the boat on the trailer). Then we needed the engine pickled (his definition and the insurance agent both said that the engine would be disassembled and parts would be soaked in oil). After my uncle (boat is in his name) signed some paper work we went to walmart to print pictures for insurance and returned an hour later and they had apparently finished `pickling` the motor (I sense some bull). They did get the engine running, but I don`t trust they did things how they were supposed to. Some paperwork got lost, insurance was backed up...fast forward to today. Get a check with a letter and in regards to the interior it states that the insurance will pay for it to be professionally cleaned as the surveyor says thats what it will take to bring boat to pre-loss condition. Our insurance policy will not pay for new cushions/carpet because the boat is so old (they`ll pay up to $250...so basically nothing).

So other than getting recommendations from marina/insurance who do you guys think I should take this to, a detailer or a fire/water damage person?

**Ron Ketcham** · 10-21-2011, 09:06 PM

Winter is coming on, no boating, so take out the carpet, seats, etc and do the right thing to them.

Trying to take care of this while they are fastened in the boat won`t do it.

A janitoral distributor of products/servicecan provide you with products that will eleminate the bacteria, etc from the foam, carpet etc. They will even provide proven advice on the, how to use and why to use of the products.

Come spring, put it back together after all, it has set for a while.

The motor and electical connections, spray all of them with a good contact cleaner and then an aerosol rust inhibitor, which will stop corossion of the connectors and such.

Throw some baking soda into the hull area after all the water you can is removed, don`t worry about it until spring, then flush out the hull with water. That`s why boat have a drain plug.

**Bill D** · 10-21-2011, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ron Ketcham

What many do here is not "real world", as most are aware.

A tiny swirl or such is not a big deal to most new car purchasers, of which is around 12,000,000 a year in the USA.

"Does it run, does it start and stop, am I able to go from point A to point B, how much is the payment or lease and can I afford the monthly fee", is how the majority of new and used vehicle buyers think.

They really don`t care unless there is a "glaring" concern staring them in the face.

Then came "modern marketing", then came TV and then the internet, and then a small percentage of the buying public started to require their "vehicle" to be delivered to them that looked as good as on the printed page or the tv commerical.

As the "media", be it electronic or printed grew and became an everyday part of creating "expectations" for the purchasers, companies that were already there, saw the future to sell a lot more products.

In the old days, back when 90% of those who are on the forum were not even born, a can of Simoniz Paste Wax or Johnson`s Paste wax was the product they purchased, Mequiar`s was one of the first to move from "professional product sales" to consumer as well.

All one has to do is look back in the history of "car care products", gee, we had the afore mentioned, and we had DuPont selling some items, Turtle Wax came into the market, etc, etc.

Today, we see so many "This is the greatest thing since sliced bread-buy it=try it" marketing using the modern net to build a small group of believers who then go on the net and tell everyone in their circle of buddies to "try it-cause I used it, tested it, and it is great!".

Very few individual`s who make such claims were lucky to have got a C in Chemistry in high school, let alone remember the elements that make up the table of elements.

One year of successful marketing this way, can make such companies a lot of money.

They don`t produce any product, they have blenders take a product off their formula list, design a great label, slogan, good graphics, come up with some "inspiring words of wisdom on how great, etc" and market the hell out of it for a short time.

Been done since the original "super polymer sealants of the 70`s"

Aura, etc, etc did this in the late 80`s, even today, infomercials are selling millions of dollars of "not so great" products to the public. Not all are bad, but to most part, yeah, "markeing wins the dollar of the consumer".

How many on here, have bought for these marketing reasons and have the almost full bottle, setting on the shelf in their garage??

I would bet that more, than most would admit to.

Grumpy

PS, now that I have started a flame, watch others flame it to a forest fire as they justify their decisions, purchases, etc

I think more credit has to be given to those who try to research and be educated consumers and don`t necessarily literally and figuratively buy every single car care product pitched to them.

**Ron Ketcham** · 10-21-2011, 09:22 PM

I will give "credit where credit is due", however, I will also continue to challenge people who only depend on "what they read on the net, as to "what was and how it is today", most fail to go beyond "what the net says" or have some documented/factual base to work from in their chase for true knowledge.

Most today appear to just focus on what the "net" has to say, rather than do true research as to "who is putting out the information" they are accepting as the truth.

Remember, I am old, I have been in and around this business of car care products, their use, watching the number and marketing of products grow since I was a kid hanging around and working in a body shop when I was 7.

I am now 67, made a damned good living the last 25 years of my professional career in the car care product business, world wide.

That`s a long time of working around Detroit, Europe, Asia, etc with car care and the other issues of the time.

If I appear to be a bit "crusty" about some of the concerns or issues presented here, I hope you can appreciate now, why I am such as I am.

I love cars, I love motor vehicles, be they cars, boats, motorcycles, etc, and having made a good living from them and the people who buy and use products, just wish to provide a more "education by life" view for them.

Grumpy

**Bill D** · 10-21-2011, 09:27 PM

Roger that Grumpy. I for one am familar with your history. I read it on the Internet but it did come from you.

**imported_Automania** · 10-23-2011, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Yamaha0219

I had an incident with my boat about a month ago, it started to sink but we were able to save it before it went down. We ended up having to leave it at the marina so we were not able to try and dry anything out ourselves...fast forward to now, all the paperwork is done but the boat has sat at the marina since the day the interior got damp with no attempts to dry it out.

Here you can see a shot of the water after we started pumping out, the water was up to the cushions (right cushion was wet, left one was dry). Underneath the cushions there are storage wells which are carpeted as well.

Insurance says that this issue can get resolved just from a cleaning, they`re not willing to pay to get a new interior put in. What`re your thoughts on this? The only tool I have at my disposal is a Bissel little green machine. Is there someone more appropriate than a detailer I should take this too...someone like Servpro? I`m not sure if mildew has began to grow on the carpet, and I`m worried about mildew growing on the headliner as a result of all the moisture.

Thoughts, input, anything, I`m kind of at a loss.....

I am not familiar with boat insurance coverage but if it is similar to automobile insurance coverage- then clean up of damage resulting from an accident (water flooding) is covered. The insurance company does not get to decide how the clean up is conducted or what parts should be replaced. The reason you are cleaning is for Healthy and Safety and preservation and since they are not experts in the field nor do most of them have an credentials they do not get to decide.

Your first step is to call in experts preferably a remediation company like Serv Pro or any company that deals with water damage restoration with IICRC certification for water damaged/mold/odor. These companies must abide by industry cleaning standards and they will be your best advocate. They usually have good relationships with the insurance companies/adusters and adjusters will generally defer to their recommendations for clean up.

You can also kick it up a notch by requesting they put all they have told you in writing so that if your boat is damaged as a result of mildew/moisture/salt etc you will have recourse to sue them for failure to act in good faith ..they will generally not want to do so.. You can also go up the chain to supervisor, or call your state commission of insurance and in a logical, factual, manner with supporting documentation including estimates and suggested recommendations from professionals argue your case.. State commission on insurance is like an ombudsman and many times insurance companies will recind their decisions.

When an insurance company makes a statement request that they put it in writing and if they tell you something is not necessary like say for example you can shampoo a flooded carpet and you do not have to change the padding because we say it will be fine.. you then request that adjusterssupervisors credentials for carpet cleaning, mold remediation clean up and any papers they have written on the subject to qualify them as an expert... you will be amazed how very quickly they will start to back up...

You can also call in an independent insurance adjuster with experience with boats and have them determine what should be done to fix the problem...but my recommendation is you put away the bissel and call in an expert.

**yenchu** · 11-15-2011, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by David Fermani

Sounds like your insurance company isn`t doing the right thing here? I`d ask THEM what they`d recommend! If you attempt to clean it incorrectly or not to their specs, they could use that against you down the road. They need to pay anything over your deductible for this loss. That means making paying to return your boat to the condition it was in prior to this loss. Your duty is to minimize futher damage(vac up the water), their duty is to prescribe/assist with the remediation of the problem.

i agree with you!!!sad to see what happened!

actually the insurance should find ways in respond to your problem about your boat...they are responsible to make it up to you since you are sincere and loyal to them with your payment!!!

**VCMike** · 11-24-2011, 09:32 PM

You should get the boat surveyed by an independent party before doing anything. Although boats are made to be in and around water, any damage to the structure could prove to a real deal breaker. If the boat has had that much water sitting inside of it for any period or time, I would make sure it didn`t penetrate anywhere it shouldn`t have(stringers, wiring, etc.).

Here are a few threads relative to mold clean up you might find helpful:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/click-b...-detailed.html

http://www.autopia.org/forum/click-b...abatement.html

**Yamaha0219** · 11-24-2011, 10:06 PM

Appreciate everyones input on the matter, here`s a little update...

After some letters to the insurance about a lack of maintenance to prevent further damage (as found in policy) in regards to having the interior cleaned right away to prevent it from needing to be replaced and the marina submitting ANOTHER claim, this time for full boat rewiring and new gauges, insurance finally woke up and addressed the situation. They deemed the boat totaled and offered the option for us to buy it back from them. We ended up buying the boat back for a few hundred dollars and got all of our insurance money back. As soon as we got it home we realized the marina left it open so the interior could dry out so it wasn`t as bad as we expected. We stripped seats, cushions, anything else that wasn`t glued down and gave the interior a good scrubbing with some carpet cleaner/Meg`s APC/Folex and extracted with BLGM. Have had a dehumidifier in there for a couple weeks helping to really dry everything out.

Did a few oil changes on the motor and winterized it. Putting it in storage this weekend for the winter, so we`ll see how it is come spring. We will put our normal Damp-rid containers in the cabin and hope for the best. We figure we`ll risk it with this boat since its easier than finding a new one, and even with the insurance money we wouldn`t be able to get a comparable boat.