PC underpowered on hard clear coat?

**KatyM45S** · 04-01-2009, 09:42 AM

I spent about 8 hrs on Friday night and Saturday working on my car (only to have someone scrape down the side of it on Sunday). I think the guy who hit me thought I was out of my mind for screaming at him about it, because the damage wasn`t really that bad. It was just the whole scenario after spending so much time.

I was generally impressed with how it turned out, though I`m thinking that I`m underpowered in my fight against my car. I went at it with two rounds of Menzerna Intensive Polish on an orange pad followed up by a round of Menz. Final Polish on a white pad. It looks/looked really good, but it seemed like the Intensive polish couldn`t do much of anything with the swirls in the black paint. The car is only about 6 months old and it kills me to think the previous owner did enough damage that i can`t repair it myself. Is the main weakness my using a PC? or do i need a product that is intended for the hard clear coat on my Infiniti M45?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Jim

**D!Tailed** · 04-01-2009, 10:41 AM

What car and year are we talking about here? That information may help diagnose.

D!

**Old Pirate** · 04-01-2009, 11:08 AM

It depends on the finish of the said vehicle that will decide on which polish, pads and machine to use. Maybe a up-grade on the polish and machine should help you out......................Angelo

**KatyM45S** · 04-01-2009, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by D!Tailed

What car and year are we talking about here? That information may help diagnose.

D!

It`s a black 2008 Infiniti M45. It is generally in good condition, but has spider webbing and some more serious clear coat scratches in places. A sticker on the under side of the hood says that the car has a hard clear coat, though none of the detailing sites I`ve looked on indicate any Infiniti`s as hard clear coat vehicles.

**jwrussell** · 04-01-2009, 11:41 AM

Had the same issue with my black Saab, Katy. I plan on stepping up to a more aggressive polish...that and trying out the KB Method whenever it is posted.

TOGWT · 04-01-2009, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by KatyM45S

It`s a black 2008 Infiniti M45. It is generally in good condition, but has spider webbing and some more serious clear coat scratches in places. A sticker on the under side of the hood says that the car has a hard clear coat, though none of the detailing sites I`ve looked on indicate any Infiniti`s as hard clear coat vehicles.

Hard / Soft Clear Coats:
Each vehicle assembly plant uses different clear coat paint from one of three major paint suppliers; PPG, DuPont, and BASF products and each of these companies have a range of several differing paints

1. Some vehicle manufacturers have more than one plant assembling the same model of a vehicle; each plant will often use a different supplier for the clear coat paints.
2. Each assembly plant may elect to use one of several OEM paints from PPG, DuPont or BASF clear coat product lines.
3. There are other factors that will have an effect; the composition of the clear coat used (single, duel component, or powder) this generally reflects the trade off the OEM is prepared to accept between scratch resistance and gloss level considered acceptable, oven drying time and its temperature, the relevant age (i.e. how long ago was the paint applied) spot panel repairs (refinish) that are carried out either at the assembly plant or the rail head or port of entry. Soft paint could also be caused if it was polished before the paint had time to fully cure

This is also true of imports assembled in the US; usually one paint supplier is approved for all plants; however each plant may modify the application/bake process in order to meet production demand. This may also affect which has the harder or softer clear.

Diagnosis is the key, not guess work; before deciding on what products to use ascertain the paint surface conditions

Extract from a series of in-depth articles "Hard and Soft Paints" by Jon Miller

**Claude** · 04-03-2009, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by TOGWT

Hard / Soft Clear Coats:
Each vehicle assembly plant uses different clear coat paint from one of three major paint suppliers; PPG, DuPont, and BASF products and each of these companies have a range of several differing paints

1. Some vehicle manufacturers have more than one plant assembling the same model of a vehicle; each plant will often use a different supplier for the clear coat paints.
2. Each assembly plant may elect to use one of several OEM paints from PPG, DuPont or BASF clear coat product lines.
3. There are other factors that will have an effect; the composition of the clear coat used (single, duel component, or powder) this generally reflects the trade off the OEM is prepared to accept between scratch resistance and gloss level considered acceptable, oven drying time and its temperature, the relevant age (i.e. how long ago was the paint applied) spot panel repairs (refinish) that are carried out either at the assembly plant or the rail head or port of entry. Soft paint could also be caused if it was polished before the paint had time to fully cure

This is also true of imports assembled in the US; usually one paint supplier is approved for all plants; however each plant may modify the application/bake process in order to meet production demand. This may also affect which has the harder or softer clear.

Diagnosis is the key, not guess work; before deciding on what products to use ascertain the paint surface conditions

Extract from a series of in-depth articles "Hard and Soft Paints" by Jon Miller

How can you tell which clear coat you have?
lets say on the following vehicles:

07 Silverado
07 Jeep Compass
03 BMW M3

Thanx
Claude

**Old Pirate** · 04-03-2009, 08:53 PM

Claude, all of your ride`s should be on the hard side, but I think you need to test it out on a small area to determine if it is.

**Tuck91** · 04-03-2009, 09:48 PM

I guess if a paint is hard enough then sometimes the use of a rotary buffer is required

**Puckman** · 04-04-2009, 08:55 AM

No doubt, camo, rotaries are much more effective at harder paints but with all the excitement of the KBM and M105, the PC has gained some momentum and looks like it has the strength and finish qualities of being just about LSP ready. Many succesful applications of this method have been posted and is a process I will try myself on harder and medium clears.

TOGWT · 04-04-2009, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by CamoZ71

I guess if a paint is hard enough then sometimes the use of a rotary buffer is required

Try using a non-diminishing polish as they require pressure (as apposed to friction) and a 4-inch foam pad

Pad size; with smaller pads you gain increased control and manoeuvrability. Smaller pads generate more friction (heat) with a PC, which breaks down polishes by generating energy over a concentrated area. The random orbiting motion of the PC generates the most power in the centre of the pad (i.e. area of a 6.5 ? inch pad is 33 ? square inches compared to the area of a 4 ? inch pad, which is 12.5 ? square inches) This additional cutting power will facilitate the removal of deeper imperfections

The opposite is true with rotary buffers. The speed of the outer edge of a smaller (radius) pad is slower than that of a larger (radius) pad. This helps reduce the amount of friction generated, which makes polishing tighter areas much safer.

**imported_Luster** · 04-07-2009, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by TOGWT

Pad size; with smaller pads you gain increased control and manoeuvrability. .

I always use 5.5" LC Orange pads with my PC. Add the cutting power of M105 and I can cut swirls and paint damage FAST!!!

**imported_Tom** · 04-07-2009, 07:31 AM

Jim, I think you have hit the nail on the head and I am in agreement with you, the pc is the issue not the chemicals. I am not saying that the machine does not have its application because it certainly does but it is important to know the limitations - the pc is a jiggler only under pressure but on most cars this is enough to make life alot easier.